Not sure how this happened but, ouch 2017 flop

[rtinniste]

PM me how much you want for the sso bumper and I'll trade you for my sr5 hood for your trail hood straight across in perfect shape lmk lol ound:

 

[Toffees]

The problem is in this scenario is that it wasn't weather. It wasn't a sudden wash out. Etc. it was a pure lack of skill. And we've got a community that has easier access and promotion of locations and trails, but we don't have an emphasis on good and solid training for driver skill.

It's always an emphasis on gear. Not perishable skills. Complacency kills. Or rather it rolls trucks in this case. Training isn't seen as cool. And training fades with time.

I'm sorry the dudes truck is toast. I truly am. But I'm more concerned that someone will finally pull the trigger and close that trail because it's gotten too popular with people who don't have the basic skills to drive down a county road.

Someone can make a stupid mistake without being stupid. But I can't fathom the reason for this crash. But it'll be a death by a 1000 papercuts and black bear will be lost forever as a jeep trail.

Then be an advocate for training. KASE and KEGE require special training through most airlines, although I understand private pilots are free to make whatever mistakes they want. You can't police everyone who attempts a trail (without checkpoints, etc) but there are ways to provide and require training, and that's not always a bad idea.

 

[Jetboy]

I think there is a relatively legitimate use case for having two spare tires. Especially for long distance travel over rugged remote terrain. This is pretty common with a lot of the international 4x4 setups I've seen.

Having said that I don't think this road falls under that category

Agreed. There's fewer and fewer places that you would need one. There's even a tire shop in the middle of the Serengeti. That's a trail I wouldn't think twice about running on my street tires. If you're going places you need 2 spares - you probably also should be using split rims/beadlocks, tubes, and bias ply tires. Or you're racing in the desert.

 

[Toffees]

Seeing things like this make me wish I could find an off road course near me. I've looked but since I live in "mudding" area instead of a "rock" area I've had no luck

OEX does training that looks good, but NC looks like the closest to you... not exactly close...

I'm sure there are similar crews in CO... not that I know of any

 

[ifoundastick]

I did a tour of the Serengeti and our rig that we were running didn't even have dual spare tires let alone an extra gas tank. I doubt there is any trails in Colorado where you would burn more than 20 gallons without finding a gas station to refuel.

Agreed. There's fewer and fewer places that you would need one. There's even a tire shop in the middle of the Serengeti. That's a trail I wouldn't think twice about running on my street tires. If you're going places you need 2 spares - you probably also should be using split rims/beadlocks, tubes, and bias ply tires. Or you're racing in the desert.

 

[LawnDart]

Then be an advocate for training. KASE and KEGE require special training through most airlines, although I understand private pilots are free to make whatever mistakes they want. You can't police everyone who attempts a trail (without checkpoints, etc) but there are ways to provide and require training, and that's not always a bad idea.

I'm absolutely an advocate for training of all kind. But the problem is if you tell people they can spend 400 bucks on a 2 day recovery course and advanced driving seminar...or 400 bucks on another bolt on widget...they'll almost always take the material choice. It's human nature. And the reality is were now seeing the results of this lack of training play out on trails more often.

You fall back to your level of training. And training is a perishable skill.

I think there is a relatively legitimate use case for having two spare tires. Especially for long distance travel over rugged remote terrain.

If I was going to do Baja again by myself, all off road, yeah hell yeah I'd carry 2 spare tires, and even then I'd bring a ton of patch kits. But then again I wouldn't want to do Baja by myself, I'd want at least another 1-2 vehicles for safety in numbers. But when I have other vehicles with me like in June, I'll drive like a total ******* and pin the throttle.

Ouray, just like Moab, isn't out in the middle of nowhere. You can grab a coffee at 7am, and be back down black bear into telluride for breakfast an hour and a half later if you're going at a very slow pace.

I don't know if it's the 'overland' trend but everyone wants to drive around all jocked up with aluminum boxes on their roof racks, RTTs, etc, and they get into off camber situations and then are surprised at how their vehicle reacts.

My last time at FJ Summit, I was at the EXACT same spot that this crash happened, my front went down into the hole and my rear right came up into the air, I put the truck in park, while a couple behind me in a manual FJ trail team (from new york state) started absolutely freaking out. I actually got out of the 4Runner and showed them that the truck wasn't going to topple over. It was their first time off camber, in a manual transmission, and the trail leader had to eventually help drive their rig down the stair steps.

Again I don't know if it's social media to blame, but people seem to put gear before experience, and at some point on trails like Moab or Ouray, they forget that their poor choices to go on trails they're not ready for (or just say "hey can someone experienced spot me down!) also endangers other drivers and support vehicles.

 

[Ryan1975]

I did a tour of the Serengeti and our rig that we were running didn't even have dual spare tires let alone an extra gas tank. I doubt there is any trails in Colorado where you would burn more than 20 gallons without finding a gas station to refuel.

I do know that running Padre Island in Texas requires 5-10 gallons extra due to running the length in 4wd (Fj Cruisers and 4runners)

 

[Toffees]

I'm absolutely an advocate for training of all kind. But the problem is if you tell people they can spend 400 bucks on a 2 day recovery course and advanced driving seminar...or 400 bucks on another bolt on widget...they'll almost always take the material choice. It's human nature. And the reality is were now seeing the results of this lack of training play out on trails more often.

You fall back to your level of training. And training is a perishable skill.



If I was going to do Baja again by myself, all off road, yeah hell yeah I'd carry 2 spare tires, and even then I'd bring a ton of patch kits. But then again I wouldn't want to do Baja by myself, I'd want at least another 1-2 vehicles for safety in numbers. But when I have other vehicles with me like in June, I'll drive like a total ******* and pin the throttle.

Ouray, just like Moab, isn't out in the middle of nowhere. You can grab a coffee at 7am, and be back down black bear into telluride for breakfast an hour and a half later if you're going at a very slow pace.

I don't know if it's the 'overland' trend but everyone wants to drive around all jocked up with aluminum boxes on their roof racks, RTTs, etc, and they get into off camber situations and then are surprised at how their vehicle reacts.

My last time at FJ Summit, I was at the EXACT same spot that this crash happened, my front went down into the hole and my rear right came up into the air, I put the truck in park, while a couple behind me in a manual FJ trail team (from new york state) started absolutely freaking out. I actually got out of the 4Runner and showed them that the truck wasn't going to topple over. It was their first time off camber, in a manual transmission, and the trail leader had to eventually help drive their rig down the stair steps.

Again I don't know if it's social media to blame, but people seem to put gear before experience, and at some point on trails like Moab or Ouray, they forget that their poor choices to go on trails they're not ready for (or just say "hey can someone experienced spot me down!) also endangers other drivers and support vehicles.

So you're volunteering to ride with me when I sign up for FJ?

Yeerrrssss

 

[1engineer]

I'm absolutely an advocate for training of all kind. But the problem is if you tell people they can spend 400 bucks on a 2 day recovery course and advanced driving seminar...or 400 bucks on another bolt on widget...they'll almost always take the material choice. It's human nature. And the reality is were now seeing the results of this lack of training play out on trails more often.

You fall back to your level of training. And training is a perishable skill.



If I was going to do Baja again by myself, all off road, yeah hell yeah I'd carry 2 spare tires, and even then I'd bring a ton of patch kits. But then again I wouldn't want to do Baja by myself, I'd want at least another 1-2 vehicles for safety in numbers. But when I have other vehicles with me like in June, I'll drive like a total ******* and pin the throttle.

Ouray, just like Moab, isn't out in the middle of nowhere. You can grab a coffee at 7am, and be back down black bear into telluride for breakfast an hour and a half later if you're going at a very slow pace.

I don't know if it's the 'overland' trend but everyone wants to drive around all jocked up with aluminum boxes on their roof racks, RTTs, etc, and they get into off camber situations and then are surprised at how their vehicle reacts.

My last time at FJ Summit, I was at the EXACT same spot that this crash happened, my front went down into the hole and my rear right came up into the air, I put the truck in park, while a couple behind me in a manual FJ trail team (from new york state) started absolutely freaking out. I actually got out of the 4Runner and showed them that the truck wasn't going to topple over. It was their first time off camber, in a manual transmission, and the trail leader had to eventually help drive their rig down the stair steps.

Again I don't know if it's social media to blame, but people seem to put gear before experience, and at some point on trails like Moab or Ouray, they forget that their poor choices to go on trails they're not ready for (or just say "hey can someone experienced spot me down!) also endangers other drivers and support vehicles.

Don't get me started on the "overlanders" lol. They are hilarious. Thank God where I go they haven't found out about it yet. Otherwise, instead of running solo in a stock truck with just a few tools, my bike and a rope for a half a day I would be required to have every gadget and crap known, full suspension upgrade, E tires, RTT, extra fuel and water for seven days, all to drive 40 miles off road. Oh, I would have to go really slow and get in line with all the other idiots at every little ditch, while they got out their max trax and bridging ladders to go over a culvert. Sheesh.

They really need to get back on the couch and eat another twinkie and dreaming of exploring instead of trying it without putting in the up front effort.

You cannot buy experience. You cannot buy time. You cannot buy intelligence. You cannot buy skill. You can only buy stuff, as evidenced by some of these vehicles and posts.

Rant over.

 

[*AZ4Runner*]

Not related to this story I'm sure, well who knows maybe, but I hate the people that "Show Off" on trails that purposely try and put their vehicle is predicaments for a "cool" picture. Lets see how tippy I can get my truck..... Or the jackasses that refuse to use their 4wd to prove they can "do it in 2wd". Those people annoy me more than someone with little experience on trails as they cant be advised on anything because they know it all already. At least the guys with less experience will take advise and help.

 

[NMBruce]

Yeah good luck with that, especially with all the digital evidence of what happened. This is similar to a guy/girl who puts their car into a wall on a racetrack and has their wreck towed to a highway for insurance scam action.

that true, seen it happen and I have also seen the insurance company cover a total car from a roll over at the track. In the 8 years I ran and instructed, saw it happen 5 or 6 times.

 

[ifoundastick]

I just mapped this.. It looks pretty awesome. Have you ever ran that. I know running deep sand sucks the gas....

I do know that running Padre Island in Texas requires 5-10 gallons extra due to running the length in 4wd (Fj Cruisers and 4runners)

 

[Ryan1975]

I just mapped this.. It looks pretty awesome. Have you ever ran that. I know running deep sand sucks the gas....

I have not. I tried to go a few times when I lived in Texas but it never materialized.

I can't remember if it's CTOR or Heart of Texas Off Road club that does an annual run out there from Austin over spring break. I've contemplated putting together a group from Colorado 5th Gens on Facebook to go out and join them, then perhaps we could reciprocate with an August trip for them to come up here.

 

[Hellaflushfj60]

Don't get me started on the "overlanders" lol. They are hilarious. Thank God where I go they haven't found out about it yet. Otherwise, instead of running solo in a stock truck with just a few tools, my bike and a rope for a half a day I would be required to have every gadget and crap known, full suspension upgrade, E tires, RTT, extra fuel and water for seven days, all to drive 40 miles off road. Oh, I would have to go really slow and get in line with all the other idiots at every little ditch, while they got out their max trax and bridging ladders to go over a culvert. Sheesh.

They really need to get back on the couch and eat another twinkie and dreaming of exploring instead of trying it without putting in the up front effort.

You cannot buy experience. You cannot buy time. You cannot buy intelligence. You cannot buy skill. You can only buy stuff, as evidenced by some of these vehicles and posts.

Rant over.

But how will I survive the outdoors without people liking my overland instagram page?

 

[kenwilliams0803]

Saw it a Magazine.

Yup. Looks tuff at the mall or picking the kids up from school.

Even though my 4R is my road trip machine and not my wheeler (JK, I know kill me now) I would never do that. It just doesn't make any sense unless you are doing it to free up trunk space. Even when that was the case and it was a trunk spare, I have always kept it in the trunk or on the back bumper just for COG reasons. Works in your favor all around to not go up top with it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[kenwilliams0803]

I have been the the point that 2 spares would be very helpful and time saving. I still wouldn't put one of them on the roof.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[3wbdriver]

Seeing things like this make me wish I could find an off road course near me. I've looked but since I live in "mudding" area instead of a "rock" area I've had no luck

Where in Texas? There are several off road parks all over the state.

 

[1engineer]

I just mapped this.. It looks pretty awesome. Have you ever ran that. I know running deep sand sucks the gas....

I took a Toyota Corolla down South Padre Island back in the 90's. No problems.

 

[wfo9]

Not related to this story I'm sure, well who knows maybe, but I hate the people that "Show Off" on trails that purposely try and put their vehicle is predicaments for a "cool" picture. Lets see how tippy I can get my truck..... Or the jackasses that refuse to use their 4wd to prove they can "do it in 2wd". Those people annoy me more than someone with little experience on trails as they cant be advised on anything because they know it all already. At least the guys with less experience will take advise and help.

Not sure about the picture part, but getting your rig in tippy situations on purpose in a more controlled environment is exactly what would have kept this from happening in my mind. It's the only way to really get a feel for what works and what does not. Even though I have a decent amount of seat time... I feel awkward for the first few hours each time I go out.. It's like you have to get your legs for it again.. and that often requires getting a little tippy on purpose to feel the bottom.... hard to explain, but everyone I wheel with feels the same.

 

[leftyguns21]

I shouldn't have looked at this thread....I am about to make a run to crystal mill in Marble (before devils punchbowl) loaded down with RTT. Being top heavy made me nervous before I saw this.