On My 3rd Front Diff

[mountainbiker42]

I bought a new 2020 4Runner last year, and as soon as we drove it off the lot it started making a groaning drive line noise which ended up being the infamous front diff needle bearing. The entire front diff and CV axle was replaced.

Well the symptoms started showing up again. I removed the front diff magnetic drain plug and found pieces of that needle bearing stuck to it. Jeez....

The vehicle is scheduled to go in this Friday. I installed a 1.5" lift on it, so I'm hoping they don't deny warranty because of that. Tires are stock size. I want them to replace the drivers side CV and front diff again. If they do then I will be on my third front differential. Seems excessive for a 2020.

I have the ECGS bushing, but I'm hesitant to install under factory warranty.

 

[NotaTRD]

Is this a more common issue with the 2020+ models? This is the second or third time within a week that I’ve read about front needling bearings going bad shortly after driving off the dealer lot and without any lift. OP, did you post this on any other forums?

 

[spartacus]

They don't deny warranty for 3inch or less lifts AfAIK.

 

[mountainbiker42]

Is this a more common issue with the 2020+ models? This is the second or third time within a week that I’ve read about front needling bearings going bad shortly after driving off the dealer lot and without any lift. OP, did you post this on any other forums?

No I did not post elsewhere. I was not aware this has been happening to other brand new 4runner as well.

After having the issue the first time (20 miles on the OD) and learning about it, I figured Toyota would have updated the issue by 2020 but maybe I got an old part. But two in a row, maybe the original needle bearing TSB is still haunting trucks. Just a guess. What are your thoughts?

 

[arehman11]

I bought a new 2020 4Runner last year, and as soon as we drove it off the lot it started making a groaning drive line noise which ended up being the infamous front diff needle bearing. The entire front diff and CV axle was replaced.

Well the symptoms started showing up again. I removed the front diff magnetic drain plug and found pieces of that needle bearing stuck to it. Jeez....

The vehicle is scheduled to go in this Friday. I installed a 1.5" lift on it, so I'm hoping they don't deny warranty because of that. Tires are stock size. I want them to replace the drivers side CV and front diff again. If they do then I will be on my third front differential. Seems excessive for a 2020.

I have the ECGS bushing, but I'm hesitant to install under factory warranty.

Yikes I had a new diff put in last February and it’s gone bad again as well on my 17. I’m doing the ECGS bushing this weekend because I see no point in replacing the diff again. But I am concerned with the pieces in there. My 4runner has been driving kind of funny and feels loose, I wonder if yours did this too?

 

[Jeremy556]

The shop that did the previous replacement looks to have screwed up the install pretty badly. I hope all of the loose bits made it down to the magnet without making their way through any spinning bits.

As far as I know, Toyota has not yet actually fixed the issue, and probably won't. Once the shop fixes their mistakes, install the ECGS bushing to permanently fix the problem

 

[T4R416]

I’ve never heard of this... you say “infamous” ? What years does this “infamously “ affect?

 

[Jeremy556]

I’ve never heard of this... you say “infamous” ? What years does this “infamously “ affect?

2003-2021 4runner, Tacoma, FJ

 

[umidkusername]

Seems like you got a really bad one off the lot. I wonder at what point can you demand another vehicle.


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[mountainbiker42]

Seems like you got a really bad one off the lot. I wonder at what point can you demand another vehicle.


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I'm not even close to this point lol.

 

[mountainbiker42]

The shop that did the previous replacement looks to have screwed up the install pretty badly. I hope all of the loose bits made it down to the magnet without making their way through any spinning bits.

As far as I know, Toyota has not yet actually fixed the issue, and probably won't. Once the shop fixes their mistakes, install the ECGS bushing to permanently fix the problem

Why do you believe Toyota won't address this issue? I can't imagine the warranty dollars they're spending. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to redesign a bearing like ECGS did.

 

[fkheath]

I’ve never heard of this... you say “infamous” ? What years does this “infamously “ affect?

This has been going on for a number of years. There is a Technical Service Bulletin about it:
Front Diff Grinding/Groaning Cyclical Noise
T-SB-0012-19 Toyota Technical Service Bulletin

Supposedly, that area of the front differential was redesigned to solve the problem in the 2020 models, and older vehicles were supposed to get a new differential with the redesign, not just replace the bearing and seals.

If you have pieces of the old bearing on your magnetic plug, obviously you did not get a brand new differential, which means the replacement shop did not follow the TSB instructions.

 

[fkheath]

Why do you believe Toyota won't address this issue? I can't imagine the warranty dollars they're spending. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to redesign a bearing like ECGS did.

They DID redesign the bearing for the 2020 model. But I'm beginning to wonder if the redesign didn't really solve the problem.

 

[Tbasse01]

2003-2021 4runner, Tacoma, FJ

??? These rarely fail, I dunno how you can say they are infamous

I worked for Toyota Canada head office until 2012 and the 4runner was a service dog .. meaning they hardly ever saw them in the shop for repairs... That is when they decided to add more accessories cause the service was loosing money.. never heard of diff issues when I worked there and I know of all the other problems in cars everyone thought were bullet proof

 

[fkheath]

??? These rarely fail, I dunno how you can say they are infamous

I worked for Toyota Canada head office until 2012 and the 4runner was a service dog .. meaning they hardly ever saw them in the shop for repairs... That is when they decided to add more accessories cause the service was loosing money.. never heard of diff issues when I worked there and I know of all the other problems in cars everyone thought were bullet proof

According the the TSB cited above, the issue started in the 2016 model, four years after your 2012 departure from Toyota Canada.

Again, the TSB requires a NEW differential to be installed, not just replace the bearing/seal. There was an older TSB that allowed the bearing/seal to be replaced without a new differential.

 

[Jeremy556]

??? These rarely fail, I dunno how you can say they are infamous

I worked for Toyota Canada head office until 2012 and the 4runner was a service dog .. meaning they hardly ever saw them in the shop for repairs... That is when they decided to add more accessories cause the service was loosing money.. never heard of diff issues when I worked there and I know of all the other problems in cars everyone thought were bullet proof

If you search for front diff grinding and any model Toyota with the 8" clamshell front diff, you'll find reports of the noise. It usually isn't noticeable until you change the angle of the axle by changing ride height (lifting).

It really isn't a failure as it generally only manifests with modification from stock, and it's not like it's going to stop working or cause damage, it's just noisey.

If you search youtube for ECGS bushing, there is a technical explanation from ECGS on exactly what the problem is, why, and how their bushing corrects it.

 

[MeefZah]

Just put in the ECGS bushing; you don't / didn't need a whole new front diff. Hell, you already got the bushing so what are you doing effing around with the factory part again and again?

It's not an uncommon issue; I have had 2 (of 4) 4Runners that we've owned do it since 2015. In fact, I just had the ECGS bushing installed in my 2019 ORP a week ago due to an onset of the cyclical groaning noise / vibes a few months and few thousand miles ago.

I wouldn't even worry about the piece of bearing on the drain plug. Looks like everything did its job and caught that little bastard. I can't imagine there's diff damage.

 

[Jeremy556]

Why do you believe Toyota won't address this issue? I can't imagine the warranty dollars they're spending. Seems like it wouldn't be that hard to redesign a bearing like ECGS did.

They've known about it for coming up on 20 years. For the vast majority of buyers, it is not an issue, for the few that it is, they can throw down a few hundred for a new diff housing and bearing.

Usually the problem only manifests after adding a lift, at which point the dealers usually tell you to bugger off because it is caused by the lift. Not really true, but it usually isn't a problem at stock ride height.

You are now in an unfortunate situation where the dealer trying trying to fix the issue has possibly damaged your front diff. I would get them to fix it, then install the bushing and be done with it.

 

[rightyouareken]

Here's another lengthy thread about the issue. Front Diff Grinding/Groaning Cyclical Noise

My 2020 has a slight high frequency "buzz" that I can feel through the wheel and pedals at ~35-40 MPH sometimes, but it hasn't really changed in sound or severity since I first noticed it at ~6k miles. I'm currently at about 11k miles. It SEEMS to go away in 4hi (as others have noted with this issue) but I haven't tested it extensively since it feels so subtle currently. My truck is stock (except Falken Wildpeak tires). I'm keeping a close ear out on it to see if/when it gets worse.

 

[17KT4R]

Can't say that I had the issue off the lot new (summer 2017), but it certainly came into play over the first winter as temps dipped below zero I could hear the groaning, I chalked it up to the bridgestone duellers - perhaps a bad belt. 2018 winter, same noises but seemed to come and go. 2019 winter I became aware of the TSB and since I bought snow tires it certainly wasn't the factory tires now - with the info I was reading I decided to try the dealer (twice) and of course, they never heard anything LoL., so that didn't leave me with any confidence I wanted them tearing into my front end either. Fortunately I have a local off road shop who worked up my Jeep TJ for many years, also very familiar with Toyota trucks in the same sense and were obviously very familiar with this annoyance. They don't use the ECS bearing they use one from Nitro Gear, exact same thing. Anyway - I waited for my warranty to expire and had that tapped in there with the fluid changed out, left the factory seal in (oil was nice and clear - no issues presented even though I thought the groaning was getting louder this past fall), has been smooth and quiet since... so I would recommend to anyone to have that bearing replaced it seems to be a simple process for any mechanic, took my guy an hour... the entire differential assembly isn't the problem I don't know why Toyota is doing that repair - perhaps to avoid recognizing the actual design fault?