One more V6 vs V8 ?
- Thread starter arra
- Start date
: man this thing is amazing
Mine is a V6. I would have a hard time going with a V8 (conservation reasons), but that's only my own personal opinion. I know plenty of people who would consider nothing less than a V8.
My previous 4-rnr was a V6, and I often towed a boat with it, as I will with the new one. No problem for me.
My previous 4-rnr was a V6, and I often towed a boat with it, as I will with the new one. No problem for me.
MicaBlue03
Member
Drove both, bought the V6
I'm a little surprised that there isn't much mention of the different driving feel of the V6s and V8s. I drive around in 2WD most of the time, and I like it better. Others have commented in other forums about the V8 (and the V6 in AWD mode) being a little more stiff-legged and truck-like. That feeling may also be emphasized a little by the extra 150 lbs that the V8 carries up front.
It's not a big difference (the weight and the 2WD), but I feel it pretty clearly. Some of it may be the driving dynamics you get when you can devote one pair of tire patches to traction and the other to steering--this is what most sports cars have done for good reasons. The 4Runner is not exactly sporty but this may make it slightly more responsive.
I suppose this is one of those cases where the discussion only exists because of an abundance of good choices. I would have been happy with either engine/transmission combination if only one was available. I could easily afford either one, and changed my mind a couple of times. But I drove both (one right after the other) on multiple occasions and slightly preferred the V6. If the V8 had been the same price I would still have bought the V6. I liked the engine sound of both under brisk acceleration; they were just different.
I will only do light towing and it's always nice to burn maybe 10% less fuel. But mostly it was the driving feel that made the decision. I have a fondness for technology, though, and if I were choosing today I think the choice would be tougher. I can't say which one I'd choose in the end, but if they put the 2WD multimode system in the new V8s (with VVT-i) I'd probably buy that.
I don't think anybody's going to be disappointed with this generation of 4Runners, so I would just say drive both versions a bunch and buy what you like. You're the one who's paying!
I'm a little surprised that there isn't much mention of the different driving feel of the V6s and V8s. I drive around in 2WD most of the time, and I like it better. Others have commented in other forums about the V8 (and the V6 in AWD mode) being a little more stiff-legged and truck-like. That feeling may also be emphasized a little by the extra 150 lbs that the V8 carries up front.
It's not a big difference (the weight and the 2WD), but I feel it pretty clearly. Some of it may be the driving dynamics you get when you can devote one pair of tire patches to traction and the other to steering--this is what most sports cars have done for good reasons. The 4Runner is not exactly sporty but this may make it slightly more responsive.
I suppose this is one of those cases where the discussion only exists because of an abundance of good choices. I would have been happy with either engine/transmission combination if only one was available. I could easily afford either one, and changed my mind a couple of times. But I drove both (one right after the other) on multiple occasions and slightly preferred the V6. If the V8 had been the same price I would still have bought the V6. I liked the engine sound of both under brisk acceleration; they were just different.
I will only do light towing and it's always nice to burn maybe 10% less fuel. But mostly it was the driving feel that made the decision. I have a fondness for technology, though, and if I were choosing today I think the choice would be tougher. I can't say which one I'd choose in the end, but if they put the 2WD multimode system in the new V8s (with VVT-i) I'd probably buy that.
I don't think anybody's going to be disappointed with this generation of 4Runners, so I would just say drive both versions a bunch and buy what you like. You're the one who's paying!
Hitman
New member
gogriz91 said:
What you are implying and what you said are two different things. Let me quote you earlier in this thread:
It all boils down to what you can afford now and for the life of your ownership experience.
This clearly implies that YOU feel that affordibility is the all-important factor in your choice of engines.
As I stated twice already, I can easily afford the V8, but choose not to.
No, I didn't miss it.... I simply said that your opinion doesn't apply to me. Your first post in this thread mentions nothing about "in part." You made a blanket statement and I called you out on it.
Lets not get started on "what if" scenarios. Fact of the matter is that the total cost of ownership is not identicle. Of course you are ignoring the other differences between the V6 and V8 models, such as the ability to run part-time 4wd. For this very reason alone, I would choose the V6 even if it were the same cost in your make-believe world.
There is an inherent value of paying $15k more for an M3 over a 330Ci. The M3 is a performance car and I could easily justify the extra cost of the more plebeian 330Ci. The performance differences alone more than justify the extra money for me.
In my mind, I could not find the same value in choosing the V8 4Runner over the V6. Like I said, if I towed regulary, I could probably find value in buying the V8. So where is the value for me? Simple-- the V6 model. It's less expensive to buy and own. It actually has a bit more power (although less torque) than the V8 (which will change with the new V8) and performs identically on the street. I personally could not find any good reason to choose the V8, and I'm the type of guy that almost always buys the "bigger" engine. In fact, I've never even owned a 4 cylinder engine in my entire life.
Look, I don't care which engine anyone chooses. I just don't like the elitist attitude that you were portraying regarding the V8. Have fun with your V8. Personally, if I decided to go with the V8 and then Toyota put out a more powerful V8, I'd be bent. I wonder what that does to the value of the '04 V8??
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Hitman said:
There were three sentences in my original post. The last two emphasize that this was my opinion which along with $1.25 will buy arra a cup of coffee. How am I an elitist if you tell arra the decision is a "no brainer" based solely on towing capacity? Implying that arra's predicament is a no brainer is useful feedback? I'm not the one who's posing as an elitist by using my Bimmer purchase as an example then trying to justify the cost difference which is about 10 times more than the cost difference between a V-6 and a V-8 in a 4Runner. I didn't even spout off how I could have afforded a V-8 Limited if I had so chosen. It almost makes me think you're regretting not getting the V-8 and use potential loss of resale value between the '04's and the '05's as well as never having owned a 4-banger in your life to justify your V-6 purchase. (Did you buy a "plebeian" 4Runner?) Who's the elitist here?
I don't care what engine arra chooses either. He solicited my opinion and got it. I don't know where you entered into the picture by ripping my post apart when your original post is just as incomplete in covering all of the differences between the V-6 and the V-8 when considering purchasing a 4Runner. As I stated earlier, it wasn't intended for your consumption.
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Hitman there is a real good reason to buy the V8 over the V6. The V8 is a proven engine that has been on the market since 1998. It has proven to be very dependable. The 4.0 V6 is a new engine that came out in 2003. If you remember the sludge problems Toyota had with the V6 engine they were using a few years ago it would make me want to go with the proven V8 and I did. It is just the difference between proven and new and the fact that Toyota has had problems in the past with a new design change to a V6 engine. JMHO
this thread has reached a new low. no reason to get bent out of shape over this...get bent of shape over the 80k people that died because of that tsunami or our soldiers dying in Iraq but not petty crap like this. I know it's unrelated but really...put things into some perspective here.
PA 4Runner
New member
A. 1GR-FE 4.0L 60° V6Bluto said:
1. available ~90 days after product launch
2. DOHC 24V
3. Very long-stroke high-torque design:
a. bore X stroke = 3. 70" X 3.74" (94 X 95 mm);
b. prev 3.4L 5VZ-FE V6 = 3.68" X 3.23" (93.5 X 82 mm)
c. 10:1 compression ratio
4. 245 Hp @ 5,200 rpm: 283 ft/lbs @ 3,400 rpm
(on 91 octane Premium fuel)
5. Toyota’s 1st ever
a. aluminum truck engine
b. VVTi truck engine
c. variable intake (ACIS) truck engine
d. application of an all-new family of V6 engines
e. use of 3D modelling in an engine design
6. low maintenance / low NVH:
a. chain-driven cams for more accurate cam timing
b. serpentine accessory drive belt w/ auto tensioner
c. piston crowns cooled by oil jets in main galley
d. cross-bolted main caps
7. High performance with environmental efficiency
a. LEV certified:
emissions systems designed for future LEV-II stds
b. blend of high performance with fuel economy new linkless
ETCS-i
c. Class II towing capacity: 5,000 lbs
d. about 130 lb lighter than the V8 in comparably-equipped
vehicles
e. lead-free crank bearings & valve seats
Northof49
New member
I can't believe how difficult this is being made out to be.....
Drive both, if you like the V8, pony up the extra $.....if you find the V6 to better suit your needs, buy that and don't worry about it. It's really a personal preference thing, and you won't be "missing out" with either one. I bought the V8 (twice) for its towing/hauling, power on hills, nicer sounds, smoother feel and resale value......if that stuff's not worth the extra money for the next guy, more power to him.
Drive both, if you like the V8, pony up the extra $.....if you find the V6 to better suit your needs, buy that and don't worry about it. It's really a personal preference thing, and you won't be "missing out" with either one. I bought the V8 (twice) for its towing/hauling, power on hills, nicer sounds, smoother feel and resale value......if that stuff's not worth the extra money for the next guy, more power to him.
PA 4Runner
New member
It shouldn’t be that surprising, the difference in displacement is less than 1 liter; and considering the old V8 something like 130lbs heavier (& 205 lbs more on the 05 V-8) than the V6 (& all of it over the front axle). In addition the listed torque difference is something around 40 lbs-ft for the original V-8 (and now 50 lbs-ft with the new VVTi V-8).Northof49 said:
So for a Sport 4x4...
V-6
282 tq /4325 lbs = 0.0652 tq/weight or if your prefer 4325 lbs/282 tq = 15.32 lb/tq
V-8 (old)
320 tq /4450 lbs = 0.0719 tq/weight or if your prefer 4450 lbs/320 tq = 13.91 lb/tq
V-8 (new)
330 tq/4530 lbs = 0.0728 tq/weight or if your prefer 4530 lbs/330 tq = 13.73 lb/tq
*Note: Toyota listed curb weights
Which means the old V8 has a 9.2% edge over the V6 and the new V-8 has a 10.3% edge.
And using the listed hp values,
V-6
245 hp /4325 lbs = 0.0566 hp/lbs or if your prefer 4325 lbs/245 hp = 17.65 lbs/hp
V-8 (old)
235 hp /4450 lbs = 0.0528 hp/lbs or if your prefer 4450 lbs/235 hp = 18.94 lbs/hp
V-8 (new)
270 hp /4530 lbs = 0.0596 hp/lbs or if your prefer 4530 lbs/270 hp = 16.77 lbs/hp
Which means the V6 has a 7.4% edge over the old V8 and down 4.9% to the new V-8.
Aside from any differences in weight, it's torque and gearing, not horsepower that dictates how fast a vehicle accelerates up to about 60mph. From there on, horsepower plays its role.
This argument will only continue and intensify because whatever difference gained by the VVTi V-8 will be offset by the increased weight and the addition of the 5 speed on the V-6.
PA 4Runner said:
Techincally HP does come into play as it is a mathematical function of Torque and RPM:
(Torque x RPM) / 5,252 = Horsepower
No idea where you got the 60mph figure for when HP starts playing a role.
Horsepower plays more of a role at higher RPMS which is what I think maybe you meant??
Thai
Elite Member
Pitbull said:
I don't think that the sludge issue should be generalized to ALL V6 engines. For example, my old 4runner's 3.4L V6 engine was NEVER affected by this issue (recall did not include it)...and it's a truck engine. And like that engine, the new 4runner V6 engine is designed specifically for the truck/SUV lineup...so the sludge generalization does NOT apply.
On the other hand, the V8 is an under-powered old-tech engine...so it SHOULD be trouble-free because there's not much to break. (Remember, the 4.7L V8 is based on the old Lexus LS400 engine.) It's like buying a bicycle and saying that it is more reliable than a Corrolla.
The bigger question is...will the new modified 4.7L V8 be as reliable, now that it has more technology infused into it. Don't forget, V8's with high-tech stuff are just as succeptible to trouble as any other engines...just look at BMW V8 engines when it came out. (That's one thing MB has managed to do well...their V8 engine is relatively simple...big displacement with no VVTi...and it has been the most reliable part on a Mercedes...but then, that's not saying much!!)
Bottom line, Toyota makes awesome engines. Their engines are reliable and durable. Sure, there may be a few hiccups initially, but Toyota has been proven to be a reliable maker of engines, ESPECIALLY TRUCK ENGINES.
BTW, i am sure that many people doubted Toyota V8's reliability when they first put it into the Lexus LS400. (Japan cannot make a good V8, claimed the disbelievers back then.) Fourteen years later, we are praising it. So, why would it be any different with the V6????
Loki said:
Classic example of the essence of every post on this entire thread that opinions are like @$$holes and everybody's got one. arra asked and received many. I didn't ask and received a few responses. What's the value of the opinion that no one asked for?
Kind of reminds me of Point-Counterpoint from SNL even to the extent that it's entertaining.
