And, also worth noting again, this is across partisan lines. We are being driven (?) by fear.
Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!
- Thread starter Thai
- Start date
And, also worth noting again, this is across partisan lines. We are being driven (?) by fear.
wallytoo
Member
are you an expatriate?
Canadian
Sisente
Member
Radical Islam, a bad thing that the Muslim community needs to address and damn soon. Obama is not to blame in totality, personally I think he has physically signed the order to kill (directly) more Muslims than any previous POTUS, i.e. drone assassinations for example
With an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, if even 1% were "radicalized" that would be 15 million people. How can 15 million people get "their" religion wrong? Who's to say the 15 million are wrong, and not the others? This I can say for sure. In Saudi Arabia, and Iran, two 99% Muslim countries. Homosexuality is punishable by death. In Syria, it is punishable to 3 years in prison. Many other Muslim countries, it is against the law. This IS a Muslim issue at the core.
With an estimated 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, if even 1% were "radicalized" that would be 15 million people. How can 15 million people get "their" religion wrong? Who's to say the 15 million are wrong, and not the others? This I can say for sure. In Saudi Arabia, and Iran, two 99% Muslim countries. Homosexuality is punishable by death. In Syria, it is punishable to 3 years in prison. Many other Muslim countries, it is against the law. This IS a Muslim issue at the core.
wadle5
New member
Agreed. Ironic they say not all Muslims have this belief, but yet I don't see any outspoken "non-radicalized Muslims" sticking up for us(by that I meant you and I as well as the U.S.(just so the grammar nazis don't jump me))
Among the first to publicly denounce Omar Mateen in my community were the Muslims making it clear that he does not represent the Muslim belief system.
If we're going to condemn him based on his religious beliefs shouldn't we do the same for James Holmes who was a white christian raised as a Lutheran?
How about Adam Lanza? He was another white guy raised as a Cathloic. Should we condemn all white Christians based on these two killers?
I could go on with the list but you get the idea...
Are you stating that all Muslims believe in that sh!t? C'mom man don't be a fool. It's like saying all Christians believe, and act on, in everything in the Bible.
Additional reading: Omar Mateen may not have understood differences between Islamic State, al-Qaida, Hezbollah - U.S. - Stripes
During the attack, Mateen placed a 911 call and told the operator that his actions were motivated by his hardcore Islamist beliefs. However, Mateen's comments about Islam suggested that while his viewpoints were no doubt extreme, they were also confused, perhaps even incoherent.
During the attack, Mateen placed a 911 call and told the operator that his actions were motivated by his hardcore Islamist beliefs. However, Mateen's comments about Islam suggested that while his viewpoints were no doubt extreme, they were also confused, perhaps even incoherent.
-JD-
New member
You must not be looking very hard then. Google Ayaan Hirsi Ali, one of my favourite outspoken anti-ISIS Muslim's.
I agree that this is a problem within Islam but we need to be careful about how we choose to deal with it as making the wrong choice could serve to make this situation much worse.
Watch the video above, the last sentence is very relevant to us North Americans.
1engineer
Moderator
First, I have no idea what the answer is.
However ISIS (the group this guy identified himself as supporting, not only in that 911 call but previously as well) has issued several well known statements denouncing the US and even kill lists. ISIS identifies itself with Muslims.
Has any well known Christian groups denounced the US or issued kill lists? I haven't heard the Baptists calling the US the "Great Satan." I honestly don't know the answer but I do know that a certain hard core group of Muslims want America to cease to exist. IMO the Muslims should deal with it quickly or it will turn into a real $hitstorm real quick and who knows the outcome of that.
Sorry, I did read it as a question but not the right one. Of course I don't have an answer to the radical belief system. I also don't think we should put the blame on Muslims as a whole.
If you're saying that mainstream Muslims should deal with the terrorists acting under their name I agree 100% but unfortunately it's been a $hitstorm for a long time and we're likely to see it more often now.
1engineer
Moderator
Understanding this is difficult in large part by terminology used referring to the terrorists. I'm no expert but I do try to understand how things can get so violent and drag on for centuries. Below is a quote from Wikipedia that is pretty succinct.
"Extremism within Islam goes back to the 7th century to the Kharijites. From their essentially political position, they developed extreme doctrines that set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shi'a Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach of Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
"Extremism within Islam goes back to the 7th century to the Kharijites. From their essentially political position, they developed extreme doctrines that set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shi'a Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach of Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
I see this as continual loop that will only get worse unless we can answer the impossible and that is "how do you combat a violent ideology without creating more expontential threats?" I mean to say that these events are exactly why terrorism is effective when we label the perpetrators not as individuals but as part of a group because the more these acts are committed the more we as a people are seen as being anti-islamic with our reaction which further widens the gap between moderate masses. They attack, we attack, their hate makes our hate grow which fuels their recruiting. This gives them false validation for their cause and allows them to twist their ideology and manipulate people into committing horrible acts of violence. Thats why this is such a hard fight. Eradication is truly the only way to ensure defeat of something so vile but the margin of error to accomplish it without growing the threat is infinitely small.
