Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!

[wadle5]

Seriously dude? You have great points, and terribly awful points all at the same time.



I do agree it's tough to label this guy a threat as he was checked out twice and let go. I'm not blaming the FBI either. They knew who this guy was, and I'm sure they followed procedures. Hopefully they gather learning points from this.



Where I start to divert from you opinion is not blaming the GOP. You can't blame the GOP for passing a bill for this one guy? What about the next? And if you think I'm being trivial, you used the exact same argument when you told the other guy to explain the 4% statistic to the families of the killed. The "history of problems" is not going to be solved for the government...people ***** enough about affordable healthcare act. Why not just make it harder for clowns to buy guns?



I can't remember who brought it up, but during one of the candidate debates, somebody crushed Chris Christie for hugging Obama after a disaster in his state, and the crowd and other candidates ate it up. For ****s sake, this is the shit people complain about? People getting butt-hurt because Obama didn't tweet about some issue and he did for another? The next president, trump or hillary, is going to have a hard time trying to get anything done because it's so US vs THEM that it's crushing our govt's ability to get anything done.

I digress back to the original statement. He was under FBI watch......twice. If any individual on that list legally purchased a weapon I would default back to it being the FBI not doing their job. Have you ever purchased a gun? It's not like the old days of walking in and just picking out one that looks pretty and walking out. And again disarming law abiding citizens will help the genuine populous how? What I don't understand is how people don't understand that criminals DONT obey the laws. Banning guns will go just as well as limiting class 3 weapons, cocaine, illegal cars. In the end the criminal doesn't obey the law in the first place and you have now put everyone else in danger by disarming them.
And so you don't come back on that, Those examples were to prove the same point that things are illegal and people still obtain them.

Again guns are not the problem. You can keep ignoring it as much as you want, but last time I checked every massacre, murderer, was always stopped not by being in a gun free zone or telling them what they are doing is illegal. They were disarmed ....by a gun?
Simply trying to use logic with a criminal will get you no where, because they are a criminal and that in itself is illogical.

 

[ndcent]

Reports coming out now he was a Pulse regular.

Internalized self hatred is a terrible thing, even moreso when you can pull the Islamic terrorist card which is all the media will run with and every politician is foaming at the mouth to make it a terrorist narrative. Nothing about, how someone more eloquent than I remarked..

"Self hatred. Internalized homophobia. Society's homophobia. Uber masculinity. The ills of homophobia pushes men to abuse and kill. I have always stood by the belief that almost all homophobes are in themselves struggling to come to terms with their own feelings and pressures of being homosexual themselves.
Do I believe the spin will allow more erasing of why this was actually still a homophobic attack? Yes. Do I see people using this to prove Islamic beliefs pushed him to do this? Yes. Do I feel people will dismiss this as gay on gay crime and not a hate crime? Yes. Those are all poor excuses."

 

[96BladeRunner]

In my personal opinion I believe that while this was a result of radical religion it was also a hate crime. The club was known as a popular gay club (not everyone there was homosexual obviously). The shooters father discussed that his son several weeks or months before this event had witnessed two homosexual men kissing in public and was outraged. This is more than likely what fueled his rage to the point where he decided to commit this awful act. His ISIS beliefs or following also contributed and I feel his hatred towards homosexuals was this biggest part.

As for how homosexuals are handled overseas and in other countries is one thing but has nothing to do with this. Unfortunately, while many of us may frown upon it as awful and horrendous, that is how they do things like this and is in a way normal. Gladly in the United States is not that way and we for the most part embrace and celebrate homosexuality. The shooters actions are disgusting. Its sad the amount of innocent people that died that night on a night that was meant to be enjoyed.

And enough with all of the Muslim hate. All we see or hear about how they are the bad ones. For every one bad individual there are 100 good ones. ISIS and other extremists believe in something totally different or is highly misinterpreted out of the Qu'ran and the entire belief of the jihad is definitely misinterpreted and not what the Qu'ran states or the Islam religion as a whole believes in. Islam is not the main problem. While yes many acts of terror are carried out by ISIS followers and believers there are also white Christians and other people of different races, religions, and beliefs that do the same things but its the Muslims that get all of the hate.

 

[wadle5]

In my personal opinion I believe that while this was a result of radical religion it was also a hate crime. The club was known as a popular gay club (not everyone there was homosexual obviously). The shooters father discussed that his son several weeks or months before this event had witnessed two homosexual men kissing in public and was outraged. This is more than likely what fueled his rage to the point where he decided to commit this awful act. His ISIS beliefs or following also contributed and I feel his hatred towards homosexuals was this biggest part.



As for how homosexuals are handled overseas and in other countries is one thing but has nothing to do with this. Unfortunately, while many of us may frown upon it as awful and horrendous, that is how they do things like this and is in a way normal. Gladly in the United States is not that way and we for the most part embrace and celebrate homosexuality. The shooters actions are disgusting. Its sad the amount of innocent people that died that night on a night that was meant to be enjoyed.



And enough with all of the Muslim hate. All we see or hear about how they are the bad ones. For every one bad individual there are 100 good ones. ISIS and other extremists believe in something totally different or is highly misinterpreted out of the Qu'ran and the entire belief of the jihad is definitely misinterpreted and not what the Qu'ran states or the Islam religion as a whole believes in. Islam is not the main problem. While yes many acts of terror are carried out by ISIS followers and believers there are also white Christians and other people of different races, religions, and beliefs that do the same things but its the Muslims that get all of the hate.

How about the public shaming that is happening throughout Europe now by Muslims? Kind of hard to be tolerant of the intolerant ?

 

[96BladeRunner]

Again guns are not the problem. You can keep ignoring it as much as you want, but last time I checked every massacre, murderer, was always stopped not by being in a gun free zone or telling them what they are doing is illegal. They were disarmed ....by a gun?
Simply trying to use logic with a criminal will get you no where, because they are a criminal and that in itself is illogical.

They are disarmed with law enforcement who are trained and experienced professionals with firearms. Not someone with a license to carry permit.

If guns aren't the problem then why are they using them to commit such acts?

 

[wadle5]

They are disarmed with law enforcement who are trained and experienced professionals with firearms. Not someone with a license to carry permit.



If guns aren't the problem then why are they using them to commit such acts?

You got your popcorn ready......

while it may be true that the deadliest shootings involve semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15, as they note, these events are incredibly rare. The latest data from the FBI (2014) shows that ALL types of rifles were only confirmed to have been used to commit 248 homicides (down from 351 in 2009).

Meanwhile, knives, blunt objects, and hands/feet were confirmed to have been used in 1,567, 435, and 660 murders respectively.

Also compare that to the total number of all homicides recorded by the FBI (11,961) and that means that ANY sort of rifle was confirmed to have been used in only around 2% of homicides. Obviously, as a result of this percentage capturing ALL rifle homicides, the percentage of homicides committed with so-called 'assault weapons' is even less than 2%.

Statistically speaking, 'assault weapons' are likely not responsible for a significant amount of murder that occurs in the United States, so even if banning them completely erased homicides with 'assault weapons' AND perpetrator's didn't substitute their use with legal firearms (two huge assumptions), at best the decline in nationwide homicide would be very small.

Many gun rights supporters simply don't believe that some of the most popular rifles in America should be banned, and American's guns rights infringed upon, for such little to show for it.

FBI Source: http://tinyurl.com/hc7olwk

I guess we need ban knives, hands, and feet??? And I say again....guns are not the problem.

 

[96BladeRunner]

How about the public shaming that is happening throughout Europe now by Muslims? Kind of hard to be tolerant of the intolerant ?

Public shaming of Muslims by Muslims in Europe?

Sorry could you possibly reword it.I'm not getting the question

 

[1engineer]

They are disarmed with law enforcement who are trained and experienced professionals with firearms. Not someone with a license to carry permit.

If guns aren't the problem then why are they using them to commit such acts?

What did they use in France? Simple question.

 

[96BladeRunner]

FBI Source: http://tinyurl.com/hc7olwk

You just sent me to a link that shows that guns kill more people than all of those other things combined each year from 2010-2014. Thanks for proving my point!

 

[96BladeRunner]

What did they use in France? Simple question.

Guns used by trained law enforcement professionals and not by a civilian. What I said in the quote.

 

[wadle5]

You just sent me to a link that shows that guns kill more people than all of those other things combined each year from 2010-2014. Thanks for proving my point!

False the topic was the "weapons used to cause this" thus inferring "assault weapons"

Good job with the details....

"Why does a civilian need to own an AR-15 or similar weapons"

This is a common rhetorical question gun control supporters pose to gun rights advocates when pushing for a so-called 'assault weapons' ban, as if merely not needing something constituted a valid excuse for making it illegal.

This is like asking, "why does anyone need to draw insulting depictions of the Prophet Muhammad?" No one NEEDS to draw a cartoon depiction of Muhammad, but it's their constitutionally guaranteed right to do so if they please, as such depictions constitute freedom of speech.

We don't just violate people's fundamental liberties on the basis of whether or not certain expressions of those liberties are necessary to live their daily lives. The integrity of constitutional rights is NOT a question of need.

 

[ndcent]

Some of the most vitriolic homophobes are indeed self loathing homosexuals. Not really exclusive to Islam either, plenty of closet gay self loathing Christians out there.

Religion sucks.

 

[wadle5]

He might be referring to the men who beat a Muslim woman bartender in France a few days ago. She was serving alcohol during Ramadan month. She was a Muslim so her fellow brethren beat her for breaking the rules of the faith. It is in the papers. Just one drop in the bucket of these kind of incidents.



Religious extremism is rampant in Europe. Just look at Molenbeck Belgium.

Or the other women who were harassed and raped for what they were wearing was provocative and against teachings. Belgium is just one place where the influx of Muslims and demanding not just tolerance for their beliefs but justifying their actions.

 

[wadle5]

Guns used by trained law enforcement professionals and not by a civilian. What I said in the quote.

So all gun owners are now inept comparatively to law enforcement in the handling of firearms? You truly believe that?

 

[96BladeRunner]

So all gun owners are now inept comparatively to law enforcement in the handling of firearms? You truly believe that?

Yeah pretty much. It's my own personal opinion and you don't have to agree or respect that and it's not gonna affect me either way.

 

[Jimmy_D]

Apparently the perpetrator was only partially responsible..........

 

[-JD-]

I'm curious if anyone watched the video I posted in which Obama says that they can't even stop people who are known to be ISIS sympathizer's from buying guns. Why? Because anytime anything remotely involving gun control is brought up the gun nuts immediately react, and start arguing, as if he is going to take people's guns away.

Reasonable gun laws do not equate taking all your guns away.

 

[wadle5]

Yeah pretty much. It's my own personal opinion and you don't have to agree or respect that and it's not gonna affect me either way.

Oh I am fully aware, but thank you for your permission going forward? I guess it is true that the unknown is terrifying in this case I guess you don't know any safe gun owners? Or we could go to the argument of crooked or dirty cops, then what? They are "trained professionals". Again it isn't the weapon, but great counter?

 

[wadle5]

Because anytime anything remotely involving gun control is brought up the gun nuts immediately react, and start arguing, as if he is going to take people's guns away.

Reasonable gun laws do not equate taking all your guns away.

Weird it's like anytime someone says all violent massacres were stopped by a gun that gets denied?
Or we shouldn't judge all Muslims because of the actions of one Muslim but we should judge all gun owners by the actions of one? The NRA boasts over 4.5 million members. Now if they all were truly that crazy right winged that everyone believes I think we would see more violence from them. But we don't because again they are law abiding gun owners. Don't disarm them because someone else broke the law?

You can spin it to your own opinion but the statistics say otherwise.


This event just like San Ber was stopped from having more casualties by using a gun.

The problem is the laws proposed aren't reasonable. If you reference the previous post about constitutional liberties you would see that.

 

[-JD-]

The problem is the laws proposed aren't reasonable. If you reference the previous post about constitutional liberties you would see that.

What are you some concessions you would be willing to make that you feel ARE reasonable?