Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!

[ndcent]

I disagree. It may have played a role but more likely the literal teachings of the Islamic religion and his upbringing contributed in a much greater way. He was after all investigated twice by the FBI.

Personally, I think the elephant in the room is the 24 hour new and social media coverage of these tragedies as it encourages self-fulfilling prophesies by giving these individuals a platform for martyrdom. I can't fathom a different reason why this person would feel the need to act out hatred against the West as he was born and grew up in the West and likely never experienced the life of an average middle easterner in a war torn Islamic country.

What does ISIS want? They want a holy war against the West. Since they are in no way truly able to fight a military war against "the Infidel", they are doing the next best thing keeping themselves in the 24 hour news cycle, driving fear and Islamophobia in the West and hoping that "we" will persecute Muslims living in the West and this will drive the Western Muslims to do their bidding for them. It's a tight rope walk especially when the wind blows.

Sounds like so many here want to give ISIS what they want as you describe it.

 

[ndcent]

Can we all agree someone on a terrorist watchlist shouldn't be able to legally buy a firearm?

The idea that a suspected terrorist can legally buy a firearm so they don't know government knows they're a suspected terrorist is insanity.

 

[ThorInc]

Can we all agree someone on a terrorist watchlist shouldn't be able to legally buy a firearm?

The idea that a suspected terrorist can legally buy a firearm so they don't know government knows they're a suspected terrorist is insanity.

I disagree that both religious interpretation and homosexuality are the reasons for this. I think it is primarly religious distortion. Your post seems to equate the two.
As for stopping some someone on the terror watch list from buying guns, I disagree as well because that person still has rights unless convicted of a crime. Repressing rights is not the solution to this issue, it's more an example of politics with an agenda.

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[Thai]

Fueled by extremist religious ideology and self loathing for being homosexual is what drove this person to commit this horrific act. Even in death he chose to claim some ISIS allegiance to cover up his closet homosexuality.

This is the narrative making sense to me given all we know at this time.

It's also deeply disturbing to me in our secular country so many will find that religious ideology is only a factor if the subject is brown.

Seriously?!

But then again, right after Paris attacks, ndcent posted that ladders (from Home Depot, etc) kill way more people than terrorist attacks and that these attacks are not significant at all. ISIS groups are like your neighborhood thugs...we should not worry at all.

Oh good, Thai had another chance to type "libtard" in a post.

Well, if the label fit..........

 

[ben550]

News this morning:

A Muslim radical who was being investigated for terror ties stabbed a French police chief to death outside his home, then tortured the man's wife in front of their toddler son - all while livestreaming his rampage on Facebook.

Muslim terrorist kills French cop, wife while livestreaming on Facebook | Fox News

A propensity towards violence...

 

[ndcent]

I disagree that both religious interpretation and homosexuality are the reasons for this. I think it is primarly religious distortion. Your post seems to equate the two.
As for stopping some someone on the terror watch list from buying guns, I disagree as well because that person still has rights unless convicted of a crime. Repressing rights is not the solution to this issue, it's more an example of politics with an agenda.

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I feel these innocent people's right to live supersede someone on a no fly or terrorist watch list ability to easily legally buy a firearm.

That "repressing rights in not the solution" is a notion I'm sure we'll come back to though.

 

[ndcent]

Seriously?!

But then again, right after Paris attacks, ndcent posted that ladders (from Home Depot, etc) kill way more people than terrorist attacks and that these attacks are not significant at all. ISIS groups are like your neighborhood thugs...we should not worry at all.



Well, if the label fit..........

I did say ladders are responsible for more American deaths than ISIS.

I did not say the attacks were insignificant.

You seem to have a penchant for putting things in guys mouths.

 

[Thai]

News this morning:

A Muslim radical who was being investigated for terror ties stabbed a French police chief to death outside his home, then tortured the man's wife in front of their toddler son - all while livestreaming his rampage on Facebook.

Muslim terrorist kills French cop, wife while livestreaming on Facebook | Fox News

A propensity towards violence...

As a father of a 3 year old, i cannot imagine the horrors that boy faced seeing his parents killed in cold blood. And at that age, he is old enough to understand the horror and will remember it forever.

Fu#king savages need to be called for what these bastards are instead of this soul searching sh!t from our President.

 

[Thai]

I did say ladders are responsible for more American deaths than ISIS.

I did not say the attacks were insignificant.

You seem to have a penchant for putting things in guys mouths.

Not at all. You making that STUPID FUKKING analogy right after the attack is belittling the attack AND the victims. :frusty:

 

[Thai]

It is a terrible analogy

ndcent also compared ISIS to local thugs.

And some here wonders why i use the term, "libtards."

Hiliary blaming a movie for Benghazi. Obama blaming us for Orlando massacre.

SOUL SEARCHING!!!!! The President calling US Citizens to do soul searching!!!! GEEZ FUKKING morons! :roadkill:

 

[ndcent]

ndcent also compared ISIS to local thugs.

And some here wonders why i use the term, "libtards."

Hiliary blaming a movie for Benghazi. Obama blaming us for Orlando massacre.

SOUL SEARCHING!!!!! The President calling US Citizens to do soul searching!!!! GEEZ FUKKING morons! :roadkill:

I think there's a correlation between a propensity for caps lock and using the playground phrase "libtard."

 

[ndcent]

It is a terrible analogy

It was intended to give some perspective while everyone is getting wildly islamaphobic. From your posts on the subject I don't expect you to understand.

All Muslims are violent people hell bent on killing Americans, yadda yadda we get it.

 

[wadle5]

It was intended to give some perspective while everyone is getting wildly islamaphobic. From your posts on the subject I don't expect you to understand.



All Muslims are violent people hell bent on killing Americans, yadda yadda we get it.

All Muslims are kind and these our outlying situations that keep occurring we can only blame guns...yada yada we get it. You bypass logic to justify your stance on the interwebs. Seems like you need to readjust your perspective

 

[ndcent]

All Muslims are kind and these our outlying situations that keep occurring we can only blame guns...yada yada we get it. You bypass logic to justify your stance on the interwebs. Seems like you need to readjust your perspective

Must be why we allow them unfettered access to firearms? Yay freedom.

 

[wadle5]

Must be why we allow them unfettered access to firearms? Yay freedom.

Actually this isn't true. The san ber. shooter illegally obtained the weapons? Just goes to shows again, that even though against the law, he still obtained them. Yay logic?
3 civilians carrying at the nightclub prevented further casualties by containing the suspect and causing him to hold up in the bathroom. Again the logic of armed citizens defending themselves and others and making the scene less deadly than it could have been. Yay freedom. I think that is what you meant to say. . .or ignore.

 

[Thai]

Doesn't France have gun control? Mexico?

 

[Thai]

I think there's a correlation between a propensity for caps lock and using the playground phrase "libtard."

The term hurts because it is so true, right?

Sorry, i am an emotional human being...you not liking my use of CAPS is your right...i will never take that away from you.

 

[ndcent]

I've never suggested ALL Muslims are anything of any type.

Burying ones head in the sand and refusing to accept that these killers are carrying out a violent form of Islam is beyond sad.

Unlike millions Muslim Americans, the Miami killer was not a peaceful Muslim and he was not practicing the faith peacefully.

But with that said, liberals don't get to decide he wasn't a Muslim just because it fits their narrative.

His violent acts were religiously based. His targeting of gays was religiously based.

Frankly you are being a poor LGBT ally by not recognizing the RELIGIOUS aspect of this crime.

I never said religious extremism wasn't a factor, in fact I said the opposite.

 

[Hepar]

[MENTION=56396]Hepar[/MENTION]

Looks like this is relevant to our discussion. It appears that there was an off duty police officer and two other people carrying guns (3 total) of 300 patrons... who opened fire at the gunman and forced him into the bathroom where he took hostages and the standoff ensued...

This is huge Pro-Gun news. No wonder it is not being reported widely...

"An off-duty police officer and two others had opened fire, forcing gunman Omar Mateen to retreat to a bathroom where he took hostages."

Photo released shows injury to officer who was shot in head, but protected by helmet | WFTV

I would argue that if those three had not been in there... It would have been much worse.

3 civilians carrying at the nightclub prevented further casualties by containing the suspect and causing him to hold up in the bathroom.

I think we need to slow down a little bit. One, still very early in the investigation. Two, almost every report has the first people to engage the shooter was an off-duty police officer working security at the club along with two of the first police officers to arrive on the scene. No reports of any patrons carrying guns.

 

[wadle5]

I think we need to slow down a little bit. One, still very early in the investigation.

Oh NOW we need to slow down? Why two weeks ago everyone was a bathroom expert on transgender individuals, last week everyone was apparently a zoologist and cared about gorillas, and this week we had a scene occur over 48 hours ago have been blasted with information and videos, but we are to slow down? Nothing to speculate here. The fact are Guns stopped him from causing more damage? He called in and pledged allegiance to ISIS.

I think the speculation comes from the tangent beliefs of him being a closet homosexual, and dismissing the teachings of his faith he was following towards those types of individuals?

So no I think I'm good using the facts and details. This investigation will go just like any other. The important defining details will be dismissed and not publicly blasted and shoved in your face on all major news outlets and reportings, but the agenda of the President and gun grabbers will blame the extreme and dismiss the facts leading up to this.