Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!

I asked what your sources were not the shoveling of more shit!


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um, what? that sure as shit wont get you any type of positive response from me with that kind of bullshit.


but, just so you know, I was working on the above response for a while. you had replied while I was typing it out(between doing my job). so I did not see your question until after.

as for the answer, you can go ahead and find that information yourself. ;)
 
um, what? that sure as shit wont get you any type of positive response from me with that kind of bullshit.


but, just so you know, I was working on the above response for a while. you had replied while I was typing it out(between doing my job). so I did not see your question until after.

as for the answer, you can go ahead and find that information yourself. ;)



Yeah, I figured you would respond with something like that. Please stop spreading your propaganda and take your extremistness into a bunker somewhere.


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When someone goes looking for ad hominem attacks its generally because they can no longer debate on the merits of their argument.

The debate ended the moment you posted this...

And I've said it just as many times. Your paranoid delusions of tyrannical government that you are going to overthrow with civilian weapons is illogical and not a valid argument in my opinion.

I guess as someone who lives in and has visited many countries with gun control, none of which have been taken over by tyrannical government out to strip its citizens of their rights, its hard for me to take seriously.

And here is why...

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At this point you're just embarrassing yourself.
 
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And I've said it just as many times. Your paranoid delusions of tyrannical government that you are going to overthrow with civilian weapons is illogical and not a valid argument in my opinion.



I guess as someone who lives in and has visited many countries with gun control, none of which have been taken over by tyrannical government out to strip its citizens of their rights, its hard for me to take seriously.



So what countries have you visited with serious gun control? How far back are you stating they have never been taken over by a tyrannical government? If you taking countries that predate and mid 1700's then your right gun control wouldn't help and they hardly existed at the time.

However the 2nd amendment says bare arms. Arms today are guns that's what technology has set it up to be. But swords, cannons, catapults, knifes. We're all arms back then.

Many countries have been overthrown after a government turned rotten. Look at all the fighting in the Germanic era as well as the Viking era. Europe was a was with give and take. Just saying.

So what countries do you speak of?


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My question was towards JD of countries with gun control that have not been taken over from a tyrant government.


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Guns don’t kill people. People kill people. Leave the 2nd Amendment alone.
Just because they are catastrophic failures as leaders doesn’t mean you need to take away my countries rights. My rights shall not be infringed.

We have federally protected criminals running this country. It's time for a change don’t you think? Our friends and families died protecting America, I think we all deserve better.

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Japan was very waring. With provinces taking control and losing control always with arms involved. Do you honestly think that today with out the help from the USA that China would not try and conquer Japan. They are taking any land they think they can get away with. Several small islands in the south indo-pacific area are now China.

Finland was almost speaking German if it wasn't for a few gun loving countries. America being one of them. Russia being another. Australia (still closely tied to the UK) has had strict control in recent years. They have still had attacks with guns. Islamic terrorist attacks. And since the massive gun confiscation in Australia violent person in person crime has increased at an alarming rate. Also was Australia not started by the UK as a penal colony where the UK sent its unwanted prisoners. Some of those sent were in opposition to the UK. Some were just common criminals that didn't have the political connections to stay in a UK prison. The Queen is still a strong figure head there. I realize they are a democracy. But he UK influence is still very strong.
I guess one could even say that the UK used arms to colonize Australia and 15 other countries.

France and Britain were both at war with each other and there citizens were in revolt many many time. Even when guns were around.
The U.K. has a very long history with tyrant kings and what they did to their citizens. Burned them at the stake, cut off their heads, charged an extra tax when they were all tapped out and then put those who could not pay in a debtors prison, burned their farms, salted their fields, many many examples of the U.K. being a tyrant government in their not so distant past exist. Alas their citizens have always been under armed or unarmed and unable to stand up the tyrants with the arms.

Then there argument that our forefathers were talking about muskets only. Well that doesn't hold water unless you will agree that freedom of speech only applies to voice, pen and ink, and setting the typeset and waiting for it to be printed for a sum of money. Technology has changed everything. But it doesn't change the basic 10 amendments.
Our forefather many times referred to the right to bare arms as the Liberty teeth. For with out them we would soon loose all our liberties.

It's funny if not the the work of guns in our very recent history last 100 years the people who's shout that gun control is necessary would probably not have the right to speak publicly about issues like that at all.


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If you look at your second link you can see that before 1996 Australia fist sweeping gun laws. Sexual assault and robbery went dramatically up. The robbery rate took till 2007-8 until it went below where it started out and the sexual assault is still higher than it was before the ban

Kidnaping and homicide have barely changed.
Seemed to work well for them


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If you look at your second link you can see that before 1996 Australia fist sweeping gun laws. Sexual assault and robbery went dramatically up. The robbery rate took till 2007-8 until it went below where it started out and the sexual assault is still higher than it was before the ban

Kidnaping and homicide have barely changed.
Seemed to work well for them


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It was in reference to your "And since the massive gun confiscation in Australia violent person in person crime has increased at an alarming rate." comment. Unless you wrote it in 2001, I would say that it is a very unsubstantiated statement.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160622114743.htm
 
So are you in favor of modifying the 2nd amendment to restrict the possession of arms? Would you be in favor of modifying the 1st amendment? Background checks for protests? Registration of all protests you have attended? License required to attend a protest? After all the pen is mightier than the sword.


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So are you in favor of modifying the 2nd amendment to restrict the possession of arms? Would you be in favor of modifying the 1st amendment? Background checks for protests? Registration of all protests you have attended? License required to attend a protest? After all the pen is mightier than the sword.


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Yeah. I'm done getting into any of that "discussion" being that so little of it is really open to any sort of actual discussion here. I just have an issue when people make broad, largely untrue and unsubstantiated statements in attempt to back up their point.
 
as I mentioned before, the FBI may very well be the reason behind all of this.
it looks like he may have gotten weapons training from them...


anyway, I do not believe BGC's should even exist. they do not work. private property should be just that, private, and not regulated in any way.

lets take this Orlando situation a little further and assume the BGC stopped him from purchasing THAT rifle, at that time.
he is intent on MURDER, do you really think he will just change his mind, because hes unable to purchase that rifle LEGALLY? people like that will get whatever weapon they want, by whatever means necessary. a silly background check will not stop them.

I don't disagree with you that they don't seem to work. But they COULD, if utilized properly. If all they say for the clerk is 'proceed, deny, delay', then yeah, they're pretty pointless. Especially if being investigated TWICE for terrorism is not even enough to get you on the 'delay' list. Regardless of if the FBI 'trained him' or not.

But IF they had a semi-detailed readout for the clerk to make a personalized informed decision, that could change A LOT. If it said 'proceed', but continued to list anything that could possibly be an issue (although not enough for the automated BGC to flag a 'deny') the clerk could make an educated decision and exercise his own right to deny service.

As I stated, this is already expected of 16 year olds working part time at your local gas station/ grocery store selling alcohol. Make educated guesses based on visual cues and instinct. That 16 year old could very well save several lives by denying service, even if the guy is 45 with a valid ID and 'technically legit'.

So IF the BGC said 'Proceed', but ALSO said '2 ongoing FBI investigations in relation to suspected terrorism', things might have been very different. He may have been denied service.


The links I posted earlier said that the initial store that denied service tried to get the FBI involved, but the FBI took their sweet time and by then the security tapes had been written over so they had no proof.

Sure, he probably would have eventually gotten the guns elsewhere (illegally), but if he's flagged several stores all over town with 'denial of service' and the FBI would have actually listened on time to the initial store's alert call, he could have been nabbed and jailed before anything happened.

If you have a police officer who goes rogue, he's taken as a threat. An FBI weapons trained 'agent' who goes rogue should be taken as a very serious threat. If there are reports that he's attempted to purchase assault armor and massive quantities of ammunition and that he's acting in an irrational and scary manner, that should be taken very seriously and acted on very quickly. The simple fact that they trained him (if that is true) means that they know what he's capable of, and that they should take him all that much more seriously.

Agreed, though, BGCs don't work well if being a known mother ****ing terrorist ISN'T reason enough to deny a gun purchase. It looks like the FBI and their system(s) are the main failures here. They need to take these kinds of threats seriously, and the 'statute of qualifications' for BGCs needs to be rethought.
 
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So this thread is still going strong I see.



Considering the fact that I just destroyed JDs argument by putting it into historical context there's really not much left to argue.

Perhaps one of you should post up more insightful quotes from Neil deGrasse Tyson. :)


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