nevada
Senior Member
only because they know they cannot do that.
Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!
- Thread starter Thai
- Start date
ben550
New member
ISIS calls for attacks in Berlin and Brussels to 'paralyse' Europe in wake of Brexit chaos
ISIS calls for attacks in Berlin and Brussels to 'paralyse' Europe in wake of Brexit chaos - Mirror Online
ISIS calls for attacks in Berlin and Brussels to 'paralyse' Europe in wake of Brexit chaos - Mirror Online
Gunslinger-13
New member
Threads right here remind me of why our country is headed down the tubes. The Fed Gov and the Media have done a stellar job of dividing and conquering you folks. For ****s sake use your brains.
Of course this isn't all Obama's fault, it is the fault (He holds some of the burden of blame, yes, through his action and in-actions) of anyone who doesn't take the threat of Islamist Theocracy serious. That;s right folks, Islam ain't a religion, it is a THEOCRACY, say it with me now. The-oc-racy. Obama fails to see the problem for what it is, he uses these tragedies and the blood of the victims as fodder for his war on our guns. As if any of the gun control laws that are being thrown about would have had any impact on this shooting- THEY WOULDN'T have! None of them@!%^$^%$. Read them, look at the facts of this instance and see for yourselves.
Not all muslims are bad, that's obvious, there are tons of them if they were all bad things would be WAY worse than they are. But ALL MUSLIMS support the radicals through their mosques. Period. It is has been a known fact in the intelligence community for some time that EVERY SINGLE DAM Mosque around the world provides money, sanctuary and support for the radical elements within Islam. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Muslims who aren't hateful and don't want elements such as ISIS- well your money still supports them and your mosques still give them sanctuary and support in several ways.
Educate yourself, read the Koran, both of them- the Meccan and Medinam Surahs, the Sira and the Hadith. Learn how Mohammed lived and how it is taught and proclaimed that he is the perfect Muslim to be followed and embodied by all of Islam. See it for what it is and know that there will be hateful interpretations and less hateful interpretations, but the facts about Muslims worldwide wanting Sharia law implemented (Go look up the stats) speak for themselves...
Now on to guns. Guns aren't bad- they are inanimate objects, tools- that is all. Less of them isn't going to stop bad/crazy people from getting them and doing harm. Or stop bad/crazy people from doing harm without them. Period.
You'd literally have to destroy all of the guns in the world, all of the tooling machines and materials that make it possible to make one (Oh yeah, it's easy to make a gun, and the tools that do it make almost all of our other shit in life) and then you might actually see guns not killing people, but wait, what about gasoline and glass bottles? Without guns, a molatov cocktail is simple to make and very effective, prior to Orlando, the worst mass killing in us history was perpetrated by a dude with a molatov cocktail.
Okay so lets ban gasoline and glass bottles. How about we ban fertilizer and Diesel fuel? How about we ban Chlorine and Amonia? How about we ban pointy knives and baseball bats, hockey sticks, hammers, screw driverrs, rocks etc, etc, etc...
It's a fools errand. Period. The tools are not to blame and any fool blaming a tool is a tool himself. Blame the individuals perpetrating these acts, be they white, black, muslim or unicorn.
Safety does not exist, this world is dangerous. Always has been and always will be. We are the only defense we have, our own self. A gun is a force multiplier for those seeking to defend themselves.
This argument that if a CCW was present than their would be more deaths is just ignorant. Look at the REAL WORLD statistics- not propaganda the media is spoon feeding you.
When a CCW holder is present and engages a threat their is considerably less loss of life versus when the shooter was left unchallenged until police officers arrived.
Whichever poster here said less guns is better obviously hasn't put the time into researching the statistics, hasn't read the FBI uniform crime report, and hasn't spent anytime fact checking the stats the mainstream media is spoon feeding to him. Try using your grey matter- it is marvelous being truly informed versus believing the hype of organizations and individuals with agendas.
Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Concealed Carry
Finally. What good will restricting the ability of everyone to own a gun do- when less than .05% of people go nuts and shoot people up? Seriously think about this one.
There are already laws about murder, already laws about shooting people, and yet people still do it- yet you think if you make laws about guns- it will somehow magically stop the evil in this world from being evil and killing people? NOPE- all it will do is make it harder for the good people to defend themselves.
If you don't have the ability to see the logic of the above statement, please articulate why you believe more gun laws will decrease crime, gun deaths, murder, etc. because every single real world statistic is against your opinion. Every single one.
Guns in America | Facts and statistics about firearms in the USA
You can opine about guns being bad all you want, blame these tools all you want, but reality does NOT add up to your statements.
Please educate yourselves. Whether you think guns are bad or think Obama is to blame for every single problem we have- you are wrong and need to use logic, reason, facts and statistics to educate yourself and realize what the real world is truly like, not what some talking head tells you it is like.
One last thought- we need to stop the fighting between citizens of this nation. We are not unified right now, the media and the Government are using every resource possible to turn us against one another- ask yourself why and to what end.
When you think about these issues, don't just look at party lines and sling poop. We are all individuals, with differing perspectives and observations. We must learn to make this work or we will surely fall apart.
Of course this isn't all Obama's fault, it is the fault (He holds some of the burden of blame, yes, through his action and in-actions) of anyone who doesn't take the threat of Islamist Theocracy serious. That;s right folks, Islam ain't a religion, it is a THEOCRACY, say it with me now. The-oc-racy. Obama fails to see the problem for what it is, he uses these tragedies and the blood of the victims as fodder for his war on our guns. As if any of the gun control laws that are being thrown about would have had any impact on this shooting- THEY WOULDN'T have! None of them@!%^$^%$. Read them, look at the facts of this instance and see for yourselves.
Not all muslims are bad, that's obvious, there are tons of them if they were all bad things would be WAY worse than they are. But ALL MUSLIMS support the radicals through their mosques. Period. It is has been a known fact in the intelligence community for some time that EVERY SINGLE DAM Mosque around the world provides money, sanctuary and support for the radical elements within Islam. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Muslims who aren't hateful and don't want elements such as ISIS- well your money still supports them and your mosques still give them sanctuary and support in several ways.
Educate yourself, read the Koran, both of them- the Meccan and Medinam Surahs, the Sira and the Hadith. Learn how Mohammed lived and how it is taught and proclaimed that he is the perfect Muslim to be followed and embodied by all of Islam. See it for what it is and know that there will be hateful interpretations and less hateful interpretations, but the facts about Muslims worldwide wanting Sharia law implemented (Go look up the stats) speak for themselves...
Now on to guns. Guns aren't bad- they are inanimate objects, tools- that is all. Less of them isn't going to stop bad/crazy people from getting them and doing harm. Or stop bad/crazy people from doing harm without them. Period.
You'd literally have to destroy all of the guns in the world, all of the tooling machines and materials that make it possible to make one (Oh yeah, it's easy to make a gun, and the tools that do it make almost all of our other shit in life) and then you might actually see guns not killing people, but wait, what about gasoline and glass bottles? Without guns, a molatov cocktail is simple to make and very effective, prior to Orlando, the worst mass killing in us history was perpetrated by a dude with a molatov cocktail.
Okay so lets ban gasoline and glass bottles. How about we ban fertilizer and Diesel fuel? How about we ban Chlorine and Amonia? How about we ban pointy knives and baseball bats, hockey sticks, hammers, screw driverrs, rocks etc, etc, etc...
It's a fools errand. Period. The tools are not to blame and any fool blaming a tool is a tool himself. Blame the individuals perpetrating these acts, be they white, black, muslim or unicorn.
Safety does not exist, this world is dangerous. Always has been and always will be. We are the only defense we have, our own self. A gun is a force multiplier for those seeking to defend themselves.
This argument that if a CCW was present than their would be more deaths is just ignorant. Look at the REAL WORLD statistics- not propaganda the media is spoon feeding you.
When a CCW holder is present and engages a threat their is considerably less loss of life versus when the shooter was left unchallenged until police officers arrived.
Whichever poster here said less guns is better obviously hasn't put the time into researching the statistics, hasn't read the FBI uniform crime report, and hasn't spent anytime fact checking the stats the mainstream media is spoon feeding to him. Try using your grey matter- it is marvelous being truly informed versus believing the hype of organizations and individuals with agendas.
Gun Facts | Gun Control Facts Concerning Concealed Carry
Finally. What good will restricting the ability of everyone to own a gun do- when less than .05% of people go nuts and shoot people up? Seriously think about this one.
There are already laws about murder, already laws about shooting people, and yet people still do it- yet you think if you make laws about guns- it will somehow magically stop the evil in this world from being evil and killing people? NOPE- all it will do is make it harder for the good people to defend themselves.
If you don't have the ability to see the logic of the above statement, please articulate why you believe more gun laws will decrease crime, gun deaths, murder, etc. because every single real world statistic is against your opinion. Every single one.
Guns in America | Facts and statistics about firearms in the USA
You can opine about guns being bad all you want, blame these tools all you want, but reality does NOT add up to your statements.
Please educate yourselves. Whether you think guns are bad or think Obama is to blame for every single problem we have- you are wrong and need to use logic, reason, facts and statistics to educate yourself and realize what the real world is truly like, not what some talking head tells you it is like.
One last thought- we need to stop the fighting between citizens of this nation. We are not unified right now, the media and the Government are using every resource possible to turn us against one another- ask yourself why and to what end.
When you think about these issues, don't just look at party lines and sling poop. We are all individuals, with differing perspectives and observations. We must learn to make this work or we will surely fall apart.
^this^
Only thing I would change is the corrupt political system & media (especially the 24 hr news business). Once governing makes little sense to the common man, follow the money lobbied by special interests. Corporations should never have the rights of an individual. They do not represent public interest.
Only thing I would change is the corrupt political system & media (especially the 24 hr news business). Once governing makes little sense to the common man, follow the money lobbied by special interests. Corporations should never have the rights of an individual. They do not represent public interest.
Thefishguy77
New member
This^^
We need to stop campaigning and political fundraising form being a full time business. It needs to be a set time frame.
Example only: 6 months of campaigning before an election. Actual money limit to be spent total on all campaigning. Less transportation? No super pac's and the like are allowed. This would help get rid of a lot of the misinformation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We need to stop campaigning and political fundraising form being a full time business. It needs to be a set time frame.
Example only: 6 months of campaigning before an election. Actual money limit to be spent total on all campaigning. Less transportation? No super pac's and the like are allowed. This would help get rid of a lot of the misinformation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thefishguy77
New member
One more reason why the American people should not have their ability of firearms ownership restricted or registered
http://freebeacon.com/issues/now-bureaucrats-guns-u-s-marines/
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http://freebeacon.com/issues/now-bureaucrats-guns-u-s-marines/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thefishguy77
New member
And your point? Was their a point to that?
High capacity magazines. What are those? My idea of a high capacity magazine is one that holds more rounds than the designed magazine for the firearm. AR15's were designed for 30 round magazines. My Glock 21 was designed for 13 round magazines.
Do you know why the FBI does not have a statistic for crimes committed by AR's. It's because they are used in such a low number that they group them in with all the rifle crimes.
There are roughly 10 million legal AR's in this country with about 100 million rounds of ammunition. If AR's with 30 round mags were the problem I think we would know it by know.
To those speaking about high capacity magazines I ask you this. Have you ever shot a 5.56, 9mm, .45ACP, 38sp, 7.62? If so what do you think your rate of fire would be to accurately place those shots? Do you think you could place 30 shots accurately in 30 seconds, 1 minute, maybe 2 minutes? I encourage you to try and place every shot you fire in center mass at 25 meters. It's harder than you think. Now set up 3 targets right next to each other and try and shoot all three 10 times each. It takes more than a few weeks practice unless you are shooting 100's to 1000's of rounds a day in that period of time. I practice regularly with my Glock and I can put 27 rounds on target at 15 meters in just under a minute with one mag change. I am grouping somewhere around the bottom of a soup can at that rate. If I speed up I will still hit the target most of the time but they are poorly placed shots and would not stop an average criminal jacked on adrenalin or drugs.
Police all use "high capacity magazines" because in stressful situations the good shot hit rate is below 15%.
The Supreme Court has ruled time and again the the police are not required to serve and protect you. In your video the gal that was not allowed to talk much stated a fact most people don't think of, police response time. She said 10 minutes I have heard 7-10 minutes depending on your area. What are you going to do for those 7-10 minutes. Shoot 6 times with a revolver and hope you hit the assailant? Then what.? Let's say you miss or just wing the attacker. Now you have to reload under stress maybe in the dark because you were attacked at night. Do you think you can do that? What if the criminal has a gun? I know they aren't supposed to but what's another crime.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
High capacity magazines. What are those? My idea of a high capacity magazine is one that holds more rounds than the designed magazine for the firearm. AR15's were designed for 30 round magazines. My Glock 21 was designed for 13 round magazines.
Do you know why the FBI does not have a statistic for crimes committed by AR's. It's because they are used in such a low number that they group them in with all the rifle crimes.
There are roughly 10 million legal AR's in this country with about 100 million rounds of ammunition. If AR's with 30 round mags were the problem I think we would know it by know.
To those speaking about high capacity magazines I ask you this. Have you ever shot a 5.56, 9mm, .45ACP, 38sp, 7.62? If so what do you think your rate of fire would be to accurately place those shots? Do you think you could place 30 shots accurately in 30 seconds, 1 minute, maybe 2 minutes? I encourage you to try and place every shot you fire in center mass at 25 meters. It's harder than you think. Now set up 3 targets right next to each other and try and shoot all three 10 times each. It takes more than a few weeks practice unless you are shooting 100's to 1000's of rounds a day in that period of time. I practice regularly with my Glock and I can put 27 rounds on target at 15 meters in just under a minute with one mag change. I am grouping somewhere around the bottom of a soup can at that rate. If I speed up I will still hit the target most of the time but they are poorly placed shots and would not stop an average criminal jacked on adrenalin or drugs.
Police all use "high capacity magazines" because in stressful situations the good shot hit rate is below 15%.
The Supreme Court has ruled time and again the the police are not required to serve and protect you. In your video the gal that was not allowed to talk much stated a fact most people don't think of, police response time. She said 10 minutes I have heard 7-10 minutes depending on your area. What are you going to do for those 7-10 minutes. Shoot 6 times with a revolver and hope you hit the assailant? Then what.? Let's say you miss or just wing the attacker. Now you have to reload under stress maybe in the dark because you were attacked at night. Do you think you can do that? What if the criminal has a gun? I know they aren't supposed to but what's another crime.
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Thefishguy77
New member
I will check it out thanks!
Have you watched Beasts with no nations.
Kind of disturbing but gives you an idea what's going on in Africa and also going in to PTSD.
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Have you watched Beasts with no nations.
Kind of disturbing but gives you an idea what's going on in Africa and also going in to PTSD.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MudPie
New member
hikenbike
New member
Wrong sir.
"After an argument"
"Outside"
Not the same situation. Glad it went down like it did though.
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ben550
New member
There will never be an exact same situation. No two incidents are identical. The principle is the same. Someone with a firearm stopped someone else with a firearm from continuing their criminal behavior. Can't argue with that. The ccw holder was probably not very well trained, and under stress but managed to shoot back and not injure anyone else while in the dark, in a crowd...
Intent is also a factor as the two events are much different and a handgun will generally provide less accuracy especially in the hands of someone likely under the influence. You can make an argument of the exact opposite, and I am pro firearm & second amendment, that the fact that the instigator was carrying was the main contributing factor to this altercation.
hikenbike
New member
True, and yes fortunately he hit the right person. I agree that a ccw person is good for some situations but not all (like [MENTION=2]Thai[/MENTION] said way back.....in defense of you and yours but not playing Batman for others).
I personally am all for ccw (wish we could here in NJ) but I also believe in requiring the proof of some level of proficiency with said weapon every 3-4 years and total transparency with authorities. Minor inconvenience IMO.
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ben550
New member
I have no problem with a proficiency requirement. I personally would like to see a Federalized CCW permit recognized across all 50 states with a standardized proficiency test requirement... Just like a driving test or something along those lines. It seems to me that a constitutional right should be administered by the Feds rather than hodge podged together by the states, several of which have insufficient standards or oppressive standards...
My idea would go as follows:
State license still available for those who live in ccw friendly states and dont want a fed license
fed license for those who want nation wide ccw
1) required to take course on use of firearm/laws/vignetts/range qualification (or professional background showing proficiency "police officers, combat (not the bean counters) Soldiers, etc..." etc...
2) recognized nation wide
hikenbike
New member
Totally agree. Only thing I would add would be to require it to be retaken at a regular interval.
Gunslinger-13
New member
You all are crazy for WANTING a right to be watered down with requirements to practice it. That's a permission, not a right.
How about we give tests yearly for IQ, and if you don't meet the minimum you lose the right to free speech and the right to vote?
How about we give drug tests monthly and if you fail you just lost your right to freedom of religion and you are now subject to warantless searches?
I know some of you wont see all rights as equal, and that's bogus- but let me go further into why your ideals above are complete shit.
How about the single mother who barely had enough money to get by that lives I a bad neighborhood that wants a gun to protect herself and her child- how is she supposed to afford these clAsses and requirements?
How about we just reimpose a poll tax- because that is essentially what you guys are calling for and its ridiculous.
Rights are just that, once you allow the state to water them down with requirements or fees they become permissions granted by the state and that is not what Liberty, freedom of this country is about. Period.
"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is pretty straight to the point and there is NO room for interpretation
There should be no permit process to excercise a right. There should be no fees to excercise a right and there should be no minimum requirements to excercise a right.
If you can't understand the above, you need to do some critical thinking, and research the stats. CCW holders are FAR more proficient than LEO's in real world shoots. It's a well known fact. Private citizens are involved in a greater number of shootings, they cause less collateral damage and less loss of life is involved versus police shootings.
Most people who CCW already practice more than your average LEO. Do you know what most departments require for training with firearms in a year?
It's equivalent to how much I shoot in one single week of the year.
There is this idea among people that because law enforcement officers use a gun as a tool for their jobs- they must all be proficient shooters and the general public is just a bunch of fudds with guns that can't shoot. It's a joke.
Here:
Guns in America | Facts and statistics about firearms in the USA
When one removes ignorance, speculation and bias from the equation and merely researches the facts- the picture is quite clear folks.
I urge you to really think about these issues through the lens of truth and fact- not through fear, ignorance or speculation.
Read the friggin CDC reports on crime and shootings, read the FBi uniform crime report, look at real world shooting statistics and quit regurgitating BS you heard on the news or saw posted on Facebook.
How about we give tests yearly for IQ, and if you don't meet the minimum you lose the right to free speech and the right to vote?
How about we give drug tests monthly and if you fail you just lost your right to freedom of religion and you are now subject to warantless searches?
I know some of you wont see all rights as equal, and that's bogus- but let me go further into why your ideals above are complete shit.
How about the single mother who barely had enough money to get by that lives I a bad neighborhood that wants a gun to protect herself and her child- how is she supposed to afford these clAsses and requirements?
How about we just reimpose a poll tax- because that is essentially what you guys are calling for and its ridiculous.
Rights are just that, once you allow the state to water them down with requirements or fees they become permissions granted by the state and that is not what Liberty, freedom of this country is about. Period.
"The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is pretty straight to the point and there is NO room for interpretation
There should be no permit process to excercise a right. There should be no fees to excercise a right and there should be no minimum requirements to excercise a right.
If you can't understand the above, you need to do some critical thinking, and research the stats. CCW holders are FAR more proficient than LEO's in real world shoots. It's a well known fact. Private citizens are involved in a greater number of shootings, they cause less collateral damage and less loss of life is involved versus police shootings.
Most people who CCW already practice more than your average LEO. Do you know what most departments require for training with firearms in a year?
It's equivalent to how much I shoot in one single week of the year.
There is this idea among people that because law enforcement officers use a gun as a tool for their jobs- they must all be proficient shooters and the general public is just a bunch of fudds with guns that can't shoot. It's a joke.
Here:
Guns in America | Facts and statistics about firearms in the USA
When one removes ignorance, speculation and bias from the equation and merely researches the facts- the picture is quite clear folks.
I urge you to really think about these issues through the lens of truth and fact- not through fear, ignorance or speculation.
Read the friggin CDC reports on crime and shootings, read the FBi uniform crime report, look at real world shooting statistics and quit regurgitating BS you heard on the news or saw posted on Facebook.
Last edited:
Hepar
New member
Couldn't agree more myself. I personally want more gun control legislation, but am NOT advocating for taking away any guns. I just don't see why it's not too much to as for a country that is divided into separate states with 100% open borders, to have some sort of universal laws when it comes to gun ownership as well as a good national database that one can access when selling someone a gun. And as far as CCW's? I also have no issues with people carrying as long as they are well trained and can show proficiency with the firearm. And also agree that it has to be an ongoing education. The last thing I want to see is a bunch of people carrying firearms who's only experience with it is playing Call of Duty.
I have to agree with Gunslinger-13 (and I can't believe I just wrote that nic, lol), if you allow a constitutional right to be regulated by government, it ultimately become a privilege. There are already laws on the books that cover pretty well any situation. BTW, the same argument used here applies to all rights, even to those of American Muslims citizens, etc........it's a slippery slope and you have to take the good with the bad when it comes to Constitutional Rights.
