Orlando Attack...ISIS claims it!

[hikenbike]

I'll take my chances.



What should we do, let theme have at it?

Take your chances as one holding a gun? Sure.

If you don't have a gun and 3 or 4 others pull a gun in that night club (and I'm sure everyone with a gun is "responsible" ha ha), good luck.


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[hikenbike]

This may ring true in some of the more liberal cities on the west coast but i don't think it speaks for America as a whole. Not by a long shot.

I agree.....because "America as a whole" is warped.


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[RedSled]

Take your chances as one holding a gun? Sure.

If you don't have a gun and 3 or 4 others pull a gun in that night club (and I'm sure everyone with a gun is "responsible" ha ha), good luck.


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You sound like one of the sheep, i would rather have it go down like this, than wait for that ass hole to shoot us all. At the very least it would send a message that we will fight. But hey, what do i know, i'm just an old vet.

 

[hikenbike]

You sound like one of the sheep, i would rather have it go down like this, than wait for that ass hole to shoot us all. At the very least it would send a message that we will fight. But hey, what do i know, i'm just an old vet.

Yeah......a sheep. You watch too much TV Mr. Vet.


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[ThorInc]

A lot of times I'll exclude the quotee because if it's something that peaked your interest you tend to look it up and learn/read more.

I wish more people did this.

Lots of assumptions in this post, if you quote someone you generally fotenote the source. Saves a ton of grief in academic circles for example....

 

[ThorInc]

So let's take it a step further:

If it IS a specific religion based (it is) then what's the answer to prevent these guys from committing terrorist acts?

We know they will not police themselves.
We know they will strike again and again, all in the name of religion.
We know there are just a small percentage of them that are wicked bad but they won't speak up.

What is the answer? What is "a" answer?

One answer is to condemn an entire religion.
Another answer is to identify some of the players and kill them. (doing this now with no measurable effect, as evidenced by the recent attacks globally.)
Another answer is to take the fight to them and invade.
Another answer is to do nothing and hope it goes away.

Is there another answer? Sort of need one quick before they get too big.

If we continue along this current course of action, I think that eventually these bad guys will continue to grow and bring the west to their knees from fear. ISIS will continue to grow.

I would love to have an answer from either side on how best to handle this that does not condemn a whole religion but will be effective. In reality the Muslims as a whole should take care of this but they have not yet and don't look like they will.

Terrorist has become a thriving business, I guess everything above ignores this fact and the consequences.

The cost of fighting terrorism - Nov. 16, 2015
U.S. spends over $16 billion annually on counter-terrorism | Pew Research Center
http://useconomy.about.com/od/usfederalbudge/f/War_on_Terror_Facts.htm

 

[Hepar]

There were many caliphates before, all with a similar mission to rule the world and eliminate all other faiths.

I think it's very important to keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of those killed by Islamist extremists are those who are under the same umbrella faith.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslim...rism-related-fatalities-us-government/5516565

 

[Hepar]

I feel like you're diverting. Everyone on this thread already knows that the majority of worldwide victims of Islamic extremism are other Muslims. How does that in any way relate to the current discussion?

I don't get that feeling at all based on people's comments, but I could be wrong.

 

[ThorInc]

I don't get why you keep bringing this up.

Because it's relevant & cannot not be ignored. The genie is out of the bottle and takes on a life of it's own.

Yes the US spends badly but that is not the reason for Islamic extremists. Capitalism did not create Islamic extremism.

Capitalism has nothing to do with my comment. I am merely pointing out that now more than before, there are many more forces at play because of the money being spent.

There were many caliphates before, all with a similar mission to rule the world and eliminate all other faiths. A previous caliphate even conquered all the way to Austria until they were turned back and defeated.

World domination has been the purpose of many individuals and beliefs, it is not limited to a specific religion or area of the world.

The way you keep referring to it as a business sounds like a cop out, as if making an excuse along the lines ... it's not a religious thing, it's business.

Your interpretation here seems childish and naive which is shocking to me since I consider many of your posts intelligent and salient. You may not like what I am saying but to ignore the effects tons of money has on a problem or a solution is burying your head in the sand. It's not just a religious thing, it's now also a thriving industry with many more players that now have business interests. The chicken or the egg thing no longer has useful relevance. By the way, I am all for keeping the world non Muslim dominated. Maybe the US needs to have a hard look at their Saudi allies whose interests they have helped to protect for decades.....

 

[ndcent]

Lots of assumptions in this post, if you quote someone you generally fotenote the source. Saves a ton of grief in academic circles for example....

Good thing T4R.org is the opposite of academic circles. lol.

 

[1engineer]

Good thing T4R.org is the opposite of academic circles. lol.

Truer words have not been spoken...

 

[ThorInc]

Does a growth industry have investors?

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[ThorInc]

Of course they have investors.

This is another example. Why don't you just state what you are getting at.

Is this a Canadian thing? Do you guys like to just pepper away questions and 5 posts later have no political position at all?

That would be like preaching to the choir, pls read as "sheeple" if you need help to figure that out. It maybe a Canadian thing or an American blinders thing(a joking response). I am sure you will figure it out in a way that makes sense to you....and yes I like pepper. Let me ask you a question and I have read may of you posts and many link to terrorist acts across the world......what's your solution for the outcome that you want?

 

[ThorInc]

It is really hard to know the right solution.

Totally agree and after seeing how America reacted after 911, including the unrelated destabilization of Iraq and the dethroning of the sociopath Saddam and how it was falsely justified, I would hate to see more American citizens rights be further eroded away by more things like the Patriot Act and the NDAA. I would say using drones to kill Americans at home is just a step around the corner if we (you) react to fear and terror without really looking at the long term consequences of what will require a very complicated solution, if there will ever be one in the next 20 years. The terrorist want one thing, your (our) lives to be totally turned upside down and for you (us) to sell out to fear and fear mongering and also for you (us) to alienate Western Muslims to the point where they have nowhere else to turn but to Radical Islam for their survival.

I don't want western troops in Muslim countries. No NATO troops.

Muslim countries should handle this mess, just like they should handle the burden of the entire refugee crisis.

Not sure if this would actually work as I am sure that you (we) likely made commitments to your (our) "friends" in the region when dealing with Afganistan and then Iraq. Hell look at Pakistan and their allegiances (or non)..did we (you) really not know who they were but we (you) made deals with them to achieve a goal which was not in their interests.

Turkey is a NATO power with hundreds of thousands of troops and they share a similar culture and language. This is really something Islamic countries need to solve.

And this is achieved by subterfuge, coercion, bribery, force, goodness of their Muslim hearts, etc.........they are a sovereign nation in a region that is totally destabilized?

I also think we should completely stop funding all rebel groups and any Muslim country (Saudi Arabia) that does not get with the program should be placed on a sanctions list, banning weapons and technologies sales.

Now you are talking but this will likely piss off a lot of very powerful interests that like things the way they are and will likely lobby and fight to keep the status quo as it is, beneficial to the interests of some (where the American taxpayers' money flows.

These middle Eastern countries have no manufacturing abilities, no resources besides oil, no technology industry and no weapons industry. If the west could simply stop giving them weapons it would be a different story.


That means that liberals and conservatives have to agree together to give NO aid to these countries. No aid for "good rebels", no aid for "friendly rebels", no aid to help a people who "are good Libyan rebels that are about to be wiped out", no aid period. Cut them off.


Instead with each new Washington administration more and more aid in the form of weapons and cash to buy weapons is being handed out to Islamic jihadists rebels. This isn't a conspiracy, it is all out there, in every major newspaper over the past several years.

Take out the money as it is necessary for the "business/industry" of terror to thrive and we might just get a handle on this shit storm without sell out our collective souls and alienating an entire religion by rash decisions that have consequences.

 

[-JD-]

Can anyone explain to me why the US has such a civil relationship with Saudi Arabia?

Isn't that where a large percentage of these radicals, including Bin Laden and the majority of the 9/11 hijackers, originated? Aren't they one of the worst Muslim countries in terms of human rights abuses?

 

[Mariner]

Can anyone explain to me why the US has such a civil relationship with Saudi Arabia?

Isn't that where a large percentage of these radicals, including Bin Laden and the majority of the 9/11 hijackers, originated? Aren't they one of the worst Muslim countries in terms of human rights abuses?

One word: oil.

 

[RedSled]

One word: oil.

Three words, Greed and corruption.

 

[Mariner]

Three words, Greed and corruption.

Which 100% of the time goes hand and hand with oil.

 

[Thefishguy77]

I am not against Muslims. I am against the Muslims in America that aren't up in arms screaming at how stupid these ISIS attacks are. Where is the outrage. And don't tell me it's there it's not publicly. If it was it would be an easier way to distinguish the many good from the few bad. But since they are not in a outrage it's easy to see how the average person assumes that all Muslims agree with this.

Edit: don't tell me there is outrage with the few protests that have happened. A few hundred people or even a 1000 is such a small percentage of the Muslim population in America it isn't a real protest.




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[Thefishguy77]

Does anyone remember when the IRA was blowing up building. The press and the world had no problem calling them Catholic extremist. But they refuse to call them Muslim extremist. Why?


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