Owner shoots bad guys trying to steal 4Runner

[Gerdo]

So you're OK with the same people stealing your T4R over and over and over again? Seems like a well-placed, .50 cent, 9 MM, 124 grain, jacketed hollow point bullet would prevent this from occurring over and over and over again. Think of the cost savings to the community!

Great info and great facts.

Do I like the fact of repeat offenders? NO.

I hate to say but there is "due process" and "innocent till proven guilty". (part of the Constitution of the United States)
We don't have the right to take this away any more that the government to take away the 2nd amendment.

Also sometimes stupid things (like breaking into a car) are done by overall good kids doing something on a dare or just a dumb moment.

Think back, we all have done stupid things growing up.

 

[H2O_Doc]

Great info and great facts.

Do I like the fact of repeat offenders? NO.

I hate to say but there is "due process" and "innocent till proven guilty". (part of the Constitution of the United States)
We don't have the right to take this away any more that the government to take away the 2nd amendment.

Also sometimes stupid things (like breaking into a car) are done by overall good kids doing something on a dare or just a dumb moment.

Think back, we all have done stupid things growing up.

I wonder what the list of important or noteworthy (in a good way) people who have committed theft or burglary would look like. There have to be some people who have stolen a car or committed a b&e that have gone on to do contribute to the nation or do something good. Someone have examples?

I totally get protecting self and family from harm or or threat of harm but I would agree that property crimes lacking some personal threat probably wouldnt merit execution, especially without a trial. I am persuaded of this by the following:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury..."

Disclaimer: As mentioned earlier, this isn't necessarily within the specifics of the original posts and my comments should be construed only within the particulars I have supplied and may not necessarily apply to said original post. Some facts have been changed to protect the innocent. Offer barred where prohibited etc...etc...

 

[KCcarguy]

I wonder what the list of important or noteworthy (in a good way) people who have committed theft or burglary would look like. There have to be some people who have stolen a car or committed a b&e that have gone on to do contribute to the nation or do something good. Someone have examples?

I totally get protecting self and family from harm or or threat of harm but I would agree that property crimes lacking some personal threat probably wouldnt merit execution, especially without a trial. I am persuaded of this by the following:

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury..."

Disclaimer: As mentioned earlier, this isn't necessarily within the specifics of the original posts and my comments should be construed only within the particulars I have supplied and may not necessarily apply to said original post. Some facts have been changed to protect the innocent. Offer barred where prohibited etc...etc...

Funny you bring this up. One of my favorite professors in grad school was actually shot while burglarizing a home as a teenager. It was a big turning point in his life. He held no ill-will against the guy who shot him. He acknowledged the responsibility was on him and viewed it as sort of a second chance in life that he wasn't hurt too bad.

 

[SigSense]

One of my favorite professors in grad school was actually shot while burglarizing a home as a teenager. It was a big turning point in his life. He held no ill-will against the guy who shot him. He acknowledged the responsibility was on him and viewed it as sort of a second chance in life that he wasn't hurt too bad.

That was THEN, now all you hear is that the criminal (often a repeat offender) was:

-Just turning his life around (as he was raping someone)
-Was a nice guy in his community (as he was stealing a T4R)
-Attended church regularly (as he broke into cars in the church lot)
-Was an outstanding father figure (as he neglects to pay child support)
-He was wearing a hoodie in FL and just minding his own business (as he walks through a neighborhood experiencing recent break-ins that he does NOT live in)

 

[KCcarguy]

Well. Every situation is different. Some are straight-up thugs and some are just stupid kids. But I'd rather the property owner be free to a least consider defending himself and face the justice system later, rather than laws that striclty limit the right to defend yourself.

I might open up a whole new can of worms here. But, as far as the Florida thing goes, the first thing we learned in our CCL class was that having a CC doesn't give you the right to carry out free-lance police work. Not sure if Florida's laws are the same as Oklahoma's.

 

[phillyd2]

Why not?

You do see the irony of so strictly being a believer in the 2nd yet so casually dismissing the 5th amendment, right?

 

[beerstash]

You do see the irony of so strictly being a believer in the 2nd yet so casually dismissing the 5th amendment, right?

There is a reason why one amendment is the 2nd and the other is the 5th...IT'S MORE IMPORTANT!!! The 5th amendment states on due process, double jeopardy, prevent self incrimination- includes remaining silent during court proceedings. It's after one is apprehended for (alledgely)breaking the law.

 

[phillyd2]

Yep, I too am part of and even helped start a local gun forum so nothing personal but I'm not reading all this again as for the 10th time this is not the place for such long winded discussions that has nothing to do with THIS forum. Either start a thread on the General section or take it to a gun forum. This shit is getting old HERE! :deadhorse:

 

[KCcarguy]

Well, I guess you know a debate should end when people (on either side) start making a grey issue black-and-white.

 

[homeyclaus]

Great info and great facts.

Do I like the fact of repeat offenders? NO.

I hate to say but there is "due process" and "innocent till proven guilty". (part of the Constitution of the United States)
We don't have the right to take this away any more that the government to take away the 2nd amendment.

Also sometimes stupid things (like breaking into a car) are done by overall good kids doing something on a dare or just a dumb moment.

Think back, we all have done stupid things growing up.

There is a distinct possibility that if stupid can have direct and immediately painful consequences, there would be a lot less of it.

Most "overall good kids" don't break into houses where there are pit bulls for that very reason.

Well, I guess you know a debate should end when people (on either side) start making a grey issue black-and-white.

Oversimplification of complex issues is part of the human condition.

 

[M1911]

Texas has loose gun laws yet they are the #2 in violent crimes per 100,000 people with Florida leading the way.

Vermont has even looser gun laws than Texas and yet Vermont is a very safe state.

 

[MrClark003]

I just want to go back to the core of this thread which was a debate over gun control and I just want to put my 1 thought in. Then you guys can go back to berating each other.

Now I'm sure everyone here can agree that we would like to see events like SHES, VT, Aurora, etc come to an end, but we all have different philosophies on how to get there. One question that should be raised is that why do events like this happen so much more in this country when compared to other similar 1st world countries. My own personal opinion is that we just don't treat each other very well.

My wife and I spent October road tripping around New Zealand (God, I wish I had my 4Runner with me) and covered over 3000 miles. Everywhere we went, gas stations, grocery stores, shops, bars, restaurants, hotels, EVERYBODY was very pleasant to deal with. In 1 month, we didn't get one sniff of a bad attitude directed at us. People were just plain kind.

Now, on the way back, we had a layover at LAX. I wasn't even off the plane for 5 minutes when I stopped in a Starbucks to get a coffee when I witnessed the woman in front of me screaming at the top her lungs and berating the baristas for taking too long to get her her coffee. The place was packed and most logical people would think "Hey, it's busy in here. It might take a while." And it doesn't just stop there. I'm a pit manager in a casino and the majority of the issues I deal with every night are angry people who just can't seem to treat others with any sort of respect. My wife is a poker dealer, and it's the same thing. Poker players are the worst humans on this planet. Al Qaeda members are kinder people, and they treat women with more respect than poker players do.

One thing that seemed to be a common denominator in all of these incidents is that the shooter was someone that eventually snapped after being beaten down or ignored by society for too long. This is 1 of the things that needs to change. Lets start treating each other with more respect. Thats my .02.

 

[Titanpat57]

Yep, I too am part of and even helped start a local gun forum so nothing personal but I'm not reading all this again as for the 10th time this is not the place for such long winded discussions that has nothing to do with THIS forum. Either start a thread on the General section or take it to a gun forum. This shit is getting old HERE! :deadhorse:

Are they eating a deadhorse?...or beating a deadhorse?



I agree...:flame: