Panhard bar question

[killzone90]

So I'm using lc8 wraps in the rear, so should b around 3 inch lift. My question is after alot of research can't find a good awnser besides buy a adjustable one. We'll can't do that right now so what's my other options? What's the proper way to adjust the pan hard bar or know what length it needs to b

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[Tyler James Inc]

The proper way is to drop the frame-end mount however many inches down that you have lifted your rig over stock.
Adjustable is nice to dial in your rear alignment, but it is not a solution to lifting the rear.
ToyTec makes an ugly drop bracket. It bolts on to the stock mount, and then your pan hard bolts to that. It also needs to be welded in place to keep it secured.
I haven't found a nice looking pan hard drop bracket, and it's kind of a tough piece to design. It would be fairly complicated to make it look nice, and the time/labor spent building it would likely make it a part that wouldn't sell- due to the high price.

In summery- ToyTec makes the proper part you need.

CORRECTION! [MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] makes the proper parts you need. And did a fan-fcking-tastic job of doing so!

 

[killzone90]

Well I was thinking about building my own out of plate and lower it but wasn't sure how much to lower it. I figured 3 inch lift I'd drop it 3 inches but not really for sure about it all. This is my first time messing with lifts that have panhard bars

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[AssBurns]

I would recommend a panhard lift bracket. It will help correct the panhard alignment and rear end sway. It also helps raise the roll center. If you do the drop bracket it will lower the roll center. If you don't know what roll center is, google it. You almost always want the highest roll center and roll axis you can get. Depending on if you have extended bump stops or not is how much you can raise your panhard on the axle side. I have stock bump stops and lifted my panhard 1.5". I barely hit the crossmember when fully bottomed out on both bump stops. I would say lift it 1" + however much you extend your bump stops. So if you have 3" extended bump stops, then raise your panhard up to 4". I made my own drop bracket when I first did my lift and noticed a huge difference in body roll. Once I cut off my drop bracket and made a lift bracket, it was night and day difference in body roll. Also remember the more you lift or drop the bracket the more you will need to strengthen it. Hope this helps.

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[Myrunr2010]

Lifting it from the axle in lieu of lowering it from the body will not recenter your axle under the vehicle, which, to my knowledge, is one of the goals in doing the modification to begin with.

 

[MStudt]

It doesn't matter what side you lift or drop. If done correctly it will recenter your axle. Now is the debate about which end is better for your suspension.

If it were me I'd build a z-bend pan adjustable pan hard, and call it a day.

 

[JayRolla]

Still find no reason to drop the panhard bar. Lifting the driver side is the way to go as it puts panhard closer to level.

But again I still don't see the reason to do it. With my adjustable rear and 4 tire alignment my rig drives perfect.

 

[Myrunr2010]

It doesn't matter what side you lift or drop. If done correctly it will recenter your axle. Now is the debate about which end is better for your suspension.

I stand corrected. Now that I have thought through the geometry of it all I agree that either a lift or a lower will put your axle back in alignment.

 

[AssBurns]

Still find no reason to drop the panhard bar. Lifting the driver side is the way to go as it puts panhard closer to level.



But again I still don't see the reason to do it. With my adjustable rear and 4 tire alignment my rig drives perfect.

The problem with just an adjustable panhard bar is it only recenters the axle. It doesn't help level the panhard bar which helps the rear end sway as the suspension cycles. Lifting the panhard as much as possible will actually create even less body roll. I would never recommend doing the drop though. Also the adjustable panhard bar ends up pushing the driveshaft further into the gas tank skid than a lift bracket would.


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[Slo.Runner]

well i have i toytech panhard bracket laying around if you want to go that way. ill let it go cheap

 

[killzone90]

well i have i toytech panhard bracket laying around if you want to go that way. ill let it go cheap

Message me how much u want for it

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[Rockdawg84]

The problem with just an adjustable panhard bar is it only recenters the axle. It doesn't help level the panhard bar which helps the rear end sway as the suspension cycles. Lifting the panhard as much as possible will actually create even less body roll. I would never recommend doing the drop though. Also the adjustable panhard bar ends up pushing the driveshaft further into the gas tank skid than a lift bracket would.


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for the geometry to be back closest to stock why wouldn't you split the difference and do a lift and drop. you could get your panhard almost level which would stop body roll as well as center the axle. Perhaps I don't understand the geometry well enough.

 

[AssBurns]

That's always an option. An will still keep the roll center about the same if you do both sides equally. I've noticed that most people have to extend their bump stops when they lift, so if you extend your bumps, you'll make more room for more of a lift bracket. This will increase your roll center quite a bit and really stiffen up the body roll. I guess it just depends on whether you've got the room to raise the panhard a few inches or if your stuck with only an inch.
I was running a 3" drop and sway bar in the rear but once I cut off the drop and made the lift, I also removed sway bars. It was a night and day difference in body roll. I haven't even put sway bars back on since the lift bracket.


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[JayRolla]

That's always an option. An will still keep the roll center about the same if you do both sides equally. I've noticed that most people have to extend their bump stops when they lift, so if you extend your bumps, you'll make more room for more of a lift bracket. This will increase your roll center quite a bit and really stiffen up the body roll. I guess it just depends on whether you've got the room to raise the panhard a few inches or if your stuck with only an inch.
I was running a 3" drop and sway bar in the rear but once I cut off the drop and made the lift, I also removed sway bars. It was a night and day difference in body roll. I haven't even put sway bars back on since the lift bracket.


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Pictures of your lift bracket please.

 

[AssBurns]

Pictures of your lift bracket please.

I raised mine 1.25" and it just barely touches the crossmember when bottomed out on both bumps. I also still use stock bumps. I think 1" is a safe bet with stock bumps.
You can see where it touches the crossmember

It's off about an 1/8-1/4" to help recenter the axle.

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[JayRolla]

I was wondering about the cross member contact and why I just did the adjustable bar. 1.5 " is not bad. I might do this.

 

[ghostmoney]

From sonoran steel website

"FYI: The reason we do not use/manufacture the drop bracket any more, which ironically we invented it for the 3rd Gen 4Runner in 2001, is that it simply does not work. It is un-adjustable, so most installers see no benefit as they have a different amount of lift than the fixed weld on bracket compensates for. Basically is does not drop anywhere near enough and is incorrectly sized for most everyone. The discontinued drop bracket also increases the roll center, making the truck more tippy. The correct way to do this with a weld on bracket would be to raise the axle side, not to lower the frame side. If the bracket it is welded on crooked to any degree, it negates itself.

The longer Adjustable Trac/PanHard bar is the correct way to solve the problem without side effects, look at all the Jeep TJ and JK lifts, they do it the same way for the same suspension setup. Straight Axle with 4 links and a PanHard/Trac Bar/Lateral Rod."

 

[AssBurns]

I was wondering about the cross member contact and why I just did the adjustable bar. 1.5 " is not bad. I might do this.

Do you have extended bump stops? If so you can raise it even higher than 1". Just add an inch to however much you extended your bumps. This will help avoid body roll even more.

From sonoran steel website



"FYI: The reason we do not use/manufacture the drop bracket any more, which ironically we invented it for the 3rd Gen 4Runner in 2001, is that it simply does not work. It is un-adjustable, so most installers see no benefit as they have a different amount of lift than the fixed weld on bracket compensates for. Basically is does not drop anywhere near enough and is incorrectly sized for most everyone. The discontinued drop bracket also increases the roll center, making the truck more tippy. The correct way to do this with a weld on bracket would be to raise the axle side, not to lower the frame side. If the bracket it is welded on crooked to any degree, it negates itself.



The longer Adjustable Trac/PanHard bar is the correct way to solve the problem without side effects, look at all the Jeep TJ and JK lifts, they do it the same way for the same suspension setup. Straight Axle with 4 links and a PanHard/Trac Bar/Lateral Rod."

He is mostly right. But there is a typo in there. The DROP bracket DECREASES roll center and the LIFT bracket will INCREASE roll center. The higher the roll center the less tippy it will feel. As for the adjustable panhard, like I've said before, only corrects the alignment by recentering the axle. It does not level the panhard bar to correct the body sway as the suspension cycles. This can only be done with a Drop/Lift bracket. The reason people don't usually do a lift bracket is you can only lift it 1" with stock bumps without hitting the crossmember (look at my photos above). Is the adjustable better than the drop bracket? YES! But I would always recommend adding a lift bracket, even if it's only 1".



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[JayRolla]

Do you have extended bump stops? If so you can raise it even higher than 1". Just add an inch to however much you extended your bumps. This will help avoid body roll even more.





He is mostly right. But there is a typo in there. The DROP bracket DECREASES roll center and the LIFT bracket will INCREASE roll center. The higher the roll center the less tippy it will feel. As for the adjustable panhard, like I've said before, only corrects the alignment by recentering the axle. It does not level the panhard bar to correct the body sway as the suspension cycles. This can only be done with a Drop/Lift bracket. The reason people don't usually do a lift bracket is you can only lift it 1" with stock bumps without hitting the crossmember (look at my photos above). Is the adjustable better than the drop bracket? YES! But I would always recommend adding a lift bracket, even if it's only 1".



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He also does not recommend the lift because of the cross member contact. I have yet to notice any body roll with my adjustable panhard bar in the stock location. Most people complaining probably dont have a rear sway bar.

 

[AssBurns]

He also does not recommend the lift because of the cross member contact. I have yet to notice any body roll with my adjustable panhard bar in the stock location. Most people complaining probably dont have a rear sway bar.

The adjustable panhard won't change your roll center at all, so you won't notice a difference in body roll. The problem with just an adjustable is it doesn't correct the panhard angle, which makes the rear end sway side to side as the suspension cycles. Try making a panhard lift bracket, see if you can notice a difference. You should be able reduce body roll and reduce panhard angle.


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