Panhard bar question

[Tyler James Inc]

I'm curious about that also, but the increase in likelihood of driveshaft/tank interference gave me pause.

(May revisit in the future, though; already have some ideas about it.)

I'd like to relocate the tank to the spare tire area, but not keen on shifting weight bias that far back. I feel like the 4Runner is already fairly rear-heavy.
Moving the RC up would increase likelihood of tank/driveline interference?

 

[AssBurns]

[MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] - Didn't wanna quote you, 'cause I hate clutter.
Okay, yeah; I wasn't quite thinking it all the way through.
I wish I could know how big of an impact would be noticeable if I were to raise the axle side 4". That would mean a custom crossmember and axle bracket, but something I could fairly easily do if it made on-and-off-road handling much better.

I've been thinking about this too but it sounds like a lot of work with not a huge benefit. The coil buckets are attached to the cross member, which makes it more work to keep buckets strong and moving the cross member. Still couldn't be that hard to do it but then you would want to do something with the gas tank since you will be making much more contact. I wonder how high you would want to go before you start running into negative effects of too high of a RC. I've even thought about offsetting the PH back a few inches to clear the cross member. Not too sure what kind of effects it would have on other aspects of the suspension geometry. I guess I can play with the 3 link calculator to see what effects it may have. At this point the only thing limiting the height on the PHLB would be the gas filler neck. You could also move the frame side bracket over to the passenger side more to get a longer, more level PH while your at it. This all sounds like more work than its worth.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION],
I wasn't thinking about the coil buckets being a part of the same crossmember. In that case, I think you're right; I think it's more work than it's worth. That being said, I remember someone saying the rig had much less sway- even without the RSB- with the lower PH raised, than with the RSB with the upper PH drop(if that all made sense). Was that you? Whoever it was, it sounded like raising the RC was very noticeable.


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[jkeith.w]

[MENTION=118730] I remember someone saying the rig had much less sway- even without the RSB- with the lower PH raised, than with the RSB with the upper PH drop(if that all made sense). Was that you? Whoever it was, it sounded like raising the RC was very noticeable.

I was running a 3" drop and sway bar in the rear but once I cut off the drop and made the lift, I also removed sway bars. It was a night and day difference in body roll. I haven't even put sway bars back on since the lift bracket.

Pretty sure that was AssBurns.

 

[AssBurns]

Yeah that was me. Raising the PH does make a noticeable difference but Im wondering how high it too high for our vehicles. Raising the RC very high probably will drive really stiff and hitting big bumps with one wheel would feel like a much harder hit. Im guessing 3-4" would probably be all we would want to go on a street driven vehicle. If your RC is higher than your COG, your vehicle will actually lean into corners rather than have body roll, but that would probably never happen on our vehicles with a high COG.

 

[Lava rocks]

Eimkeith, responded to your pm .

 

[Snowden]

Just when...

I thought I understood what to do, what does what to what, what affects what, and what works and doesn't work... I'm confused again... :frusty: . I am told it's my age catching up with me...
[MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] are you able to let us know how production timeline is coming and when USPS might deliver our Christmas presents?

On another totally unrelated note... My Savage Off-road Rear Hybrid bumper arrived to me today... Hec YEAH...!!! Now to get it PC'd.

:smow:

 

[jkeith.w]

[MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION] are you able to let us know how production timeline is coming and when USPS might deliver our Christmas presents?

Yep, as stated in the Paypal messages, the lift brackets are due on the 14th still.
Those of you that are also getting drop brackets will get combined shipping on the 23rd when they are done (if not sooner, my sub usually beats deadlines.)

 

[jkeith.w]

On another totally unrelated note... My Savage Off-road Rear Hybrid bumper arrived to me today... Hec YEAH...!!! Now to get it PC'd.

:smow:

also, pics!

 

[GGFerrier]

So pumped. Talked to my welder today... he's ready to get to work. Haha


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[jkeith.w]

Quick update; I added a handful of PLBs to the manufacturing run so that I wouldn't get stuck with extra parts of one type of another - so from here on out, I'm offering the brackets as a pair only. (hope that's cool with everyone?)

Still a few pairs left if you want in.

 

[97Run-Man]

Quick update; I added a handful of PLBs to the manufacturing run so that I wouldn't get stuck with extra parts of one type of another - so from here on out, I'm offering the brackets as a pair only. (hope that's cool with everyone?)



Still a few pairs left if you want in.

I'm still in for a set. Just been busy dealing with finals and make sure classes were paid for. Dealing with a school is stressful


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[jkeith.w]

Dang - awesome work!

I'd be in for both brackets. I have about 4.5" of lift and an adjustable panhard. My ssssswaaaaay sux because I have not dialed in any alignment on the rear.

Looking forward to hearing on pricing and shipping dates

Cheers
Mark

Hey Mark; still need to get your email for the Paypal funds request (unless I've overlooked your PM? - entirely possible)

 

[zoombyu86]

Quick update; I added a handful of PLBs to the manufacturing run so that I wouldn't get stuck with extra parts of one type of another - so from here on out, I'm offering the brackets as a pair only. (hope that's cool with everyone?)

Still a few pairs left if you want in.

Been following this for a while debating on how i want to attack my panhard bar. I mightve missed it somewhere in the long thread; do you offer these bracket WITHOUT the holes pre-drilled? That was we can do the measurements and fit it perfectly according to our individual lift?

 

[jkeith.w]

Been following this for a while debating on how i want to attack my panhard bar. I mightve missed it somewhere in the long thread; do you offer these bracket WITHOUT the holes pre-drilled? That was we can do the measurements and fit it perfectly according to our individual lift?

Unfortunately there was no way for me to do that, being a production run with an outside production shop. However, assuming your lift falls between 1.5" and 4.5" the maximum the axle would be off-center would be about a mm and panhard angle minor with the factory panhard bar.

(that scenario would be for lift heights of 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5")

the 1/2 inch deviations are represented by the topmost angled (0.80 degree) line in the drawing below:

OK, here's some data relating to the quoted post above:

Took a few minutes to draw the stock panhard arc.

So, ASSUMING that my 940mm measurement of factory panhard bar length (center to center) is correct, and ASSUMING that a non-lifted 4Runner has its panhard at true horizontal, then:

- at 1/2" lift (or directly between the whole inch settings on our kit in question) the axle shifts 0.089mm to the passenger side. (Negligible considering rubber bushings, tire sidewalk flex, etc.)


Also of interest:

With out panhard mount alterations:

2.5" lift moves the axle 2.233mm. Panhard bar at 4.03 degrees from horizontal - an adjustable bar would need to be 2.227mm longer to correct.

3" lift shifts 3.217mm; bar is 4.84 degrees from horizontal - adjustable bar would need to be 3.206mm longer to correct.

4" lift shifts 5.728mm; bar is 6.45 degrees from horizontal - adjustable bar would need to be 5.691mm longer to correct.


(Does anyone mind double checking the work above and my assumptions, for sake of forum data accuracy?)



I've only messed with one particular aftermarket adjustable panhard bar but it was constructed without a left-hand thread at one end, so fine adjustment is improbable. (and one end is therefore largely irrelevant as well, I suppose?)



On a side note, are we certain that Toyota centered the axle on the 4Runner in the first place?






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[zoombyu86]

I want in, need paypal info.

 

[jkeith.w]

I want in, need paypal info.

Lol - I need your email address and shipping address to send you a PP funds request.

(PM me and I'll get it out to you)


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[97Run-Man]

Payment Sent.

 

[dmag310]

I pm'd you about a plb XD

 

[poopypants]

Looks like 2" almost exactly. I'm sure I could shave that contact point down but i figured I could just let the mount make its own impression on the crossmember. The contact is pretty minimal as you can see.

Project BeerRunner - http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/206385-assburns-2000-limited-build-thread.html

Hey... Is this contact point from regular suspension cycling though? Cause I thought you said when both bump stops were touching the axle it barely touched, ie, you had both the springs and shocks all the way out to even get both stops touching simultaneously...

I've seen others photograph their toytech bracket placed on the axle side, full 3 inches, and during normal suspension cycling, there's no way it contracts....
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/111673-pan-hard-lift-bracket.html

I gotta think that even if his was rounded on the back corner, he'd be able to put another inch of bracket in there... Between coil flex and shocks bottoming out, if think that hitting the crossmember would be tougher than most expect...

But I could be wrong.