Panhard bar question

[AssBurns]

Hey... Is this contact point from regular suspension cycling though? Cause I thought you said when both bump stops were touching the axle it barely touched, ie, you had both the springs and shocks all the way out to even get both stops touching simultaneously...



I've seen others photograph their toytech bracket placed on the axle side, full 3 inches, and during normal suspension cycling, there's no way it contracts....

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/111673-pan-hard-lift-bracket.html



I gotta think that even if his was rounded on the back corner, he'd be able to put another inch of bracket in there... Between coil flex and shocks bottoming out, if think that hitting the crossmember would be tougher than most expect...



But I could be wrong.

Yes, I only hit when fully bottomed out on both bump stops or at least one side bottomed out and the other just about bottomed out (This happens more than I like to admit). I still run stock bumps with custom mounted shocks to allow full bump without bottoming out the shocks. Most people will bottom out their shocks before they would hit a 2" PH lift bracket. They should also be running extended bumps at that point to not bottom out their shocks first. This is why I was saying lift the Panhard 1"+ however much you extend your bumps. This will leave a little room for error. If people are running 2" extended bumps, they shouldn't have an issue running a 3" PHLB.


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[poopypants]

Cool, thanks!

So something like this (where the corner is at 2") might work then:

I've got the hole 2" up from the factory one in that model, btw. I'm going to print one and see if I can get it to fit up acceptably well on a spare axle.

Judging by your flexed photo, the angled shoulder might work?


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Hah .... Was basically thinking of something the same with a rounded top... Already for 2.5" od 1/4" walled tubing and was just gonna open one side.

 

[jkeith.w]

Hah .... Was basically thinking of something the same with a rounded top... Already for 2.5" od 1/4" walled tubing and was just gonna open one side.

Let me know if you need a kit while we're running them.

 

[jkeith.w]

Tangential (but related) question: what is the proper relationship of the sway bar mounting and roll center? i.e. - are extended drop links the right way to go about accounting for lift, or is raising the roll bar more effective?

I'm leaning toward raising the bar (or a combination of the two, perhaps) but haven't full wrapped my head around it yet.

Also, why isn't the bar frame-mounted?

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] - opinion? Anyone else?

 

[JayRolla]

Tangential (but related) question: what is the proper relationship of the sway bar mounting and roll center? i.e. - are extended drop links the right way to go about accounting for lift, or is raising the roll bar more effective?

I'm leaning toward raising the bar (or a combination of the two, perhaps) but haven't full wrapped my head around it yet.

Also, why isn't the bar frame-mounted?

[MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] - opinion? Anyone else?

Lifting the sway bar is the best option. Steve's SS lift kits include sway bar lift brackets for the rear. He also said extending links would cause less articulation but not sure why that would be.

I run his lift brackets and they helped 10 folds for articulation but the stock links still have a harsh angle. Installed 2nd gen rear links and it's perfect now.

 

[AssBurns]

Sway bar doesn't have an effect on roll center but I think lifting the SB would be the better option. It will keep the sway bar at a flatter angle without the need for extended links that can make contact with the LCA links. That was another trail and error I had. After I lifted my 4runner, the sway bar was at such a bad angle that it drove really harsh. So I extended the links to make the SB flat. When I loaded my truck up to go camping, the compressed suspension caused the links to make contact with the LCA. I ended up making the links like an inch shorter but they still made a small amount of contact so I just ditched the sway bar. Lifting the sway bar and possibly extending the links as needed to get the sway bar flat seems like the best option.


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[Jayjayb96]

[MENTION=28464]eimkeith[/MENTION]

Pmed you. Would like to get a lift bracket only if possible since i already have a drop bracket welded in and adjustable panhard bar.

 

[jkeith.w]

Steve's SS lift kits include sway bar lift brackets for the rear. He also said extending links would cause less articulation but not sure why that would be.

Lifting the sway bar and possibly extending the links as needed to get the sway bar flat seems like the best option.

This is what I'm thinking (also): the further from RC the swaybar is the more binding in the links as the axle "swings" to the side during articulation; closer to RC, the more the links apply force vertically (which is how they were designed, I think, since the links have a rubber mount at the frame, as opposed to a rod end at the bar.)

I've seen the SS swaybar lift mounts - reasonable & economical design. I'm going to look at this over the next few days to see if it warrants another design approach.

 

[jkeith.w]

Installed 2nd gen rear links and it's perfect now.

How much longer are the 2nd gen links?

 

[JayRolla]

How much longer are the 2nd gen links?

I would say 1".

 

[jkeith.w]

good info; cool thx.

 

[AssBurns]

This is what I'm thinking (also): the further from RC the swaybar is the more binding in the links as the axle "swings" to the side during articulation; closer to RC, the more the links apply force vertically (which is how they were designed, I think, since the links have a rubber mount at the frame, as opposed to a rod end at the bar.)

Didn't really think about that. Makes sense to raise the SB rather than extend the links for multiple reasons then. How much does the SS kit raise the SB mounts?



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[jkeith.w]

How much does the SS kit raise the SB mounts?

It makes the top hole of the sway bar bracket mount the bottom hole of the new mount (so whatever that c2c distance is)

It continues the angle though (it's just a flat plate) so the SB position changes a bit.

 

[AssBurns]

Sounds like you got a new project ahead of yourself to improve that idea too. You'll be driving a lifted Cadillac by the time you figure out all the suspension improvements we keep bringing up hahah


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[jkeith.w]

Sounds like you got a new project ahead of yourself to improve that idea too. You'll be driving a lifted Cadillac by the time you figure out all the suspension improvements we keep bringing up hahah


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to tell the truth, I'm looking at why the tie rods would enter the steering knuckle from the bottom (inducing bumpsteer) and thinking about angled drivetrain lifts to reduce wear on the front of the rear driveshaft - but keep that stuff under your hat.

- but the popular go-to lifts that limit up-travel irk me somewhat, so I'm stuck here for a minute until I understand. (but the company is good, so there's that!)

and I'm learning boatloads every day here.

 

[AssBurns]

to tell the truth, I'm looking at why the tie rods would enter the steering knuckle from the bottom (inducing bumpsteer) and thinking about angled drivetrain lifts to reduce wear on the front of the rear driveshaft - but keep that stuff under your hat.

- but the popular go-to lifts that limit up-travel irk me somewhat, so I'm stuck here for a minute until I understand. (but the company is good, so there's that!)

and I'm learning boatloads every day here.

Dude I've been thinking the same thing about the tie rods! Trying to think of a simple/effective way to either flip the tie rods to the top or run heims to get them on top. Makes no sense to mount them like they did.
I don't like the limited up travel crap that everyone uses either. I'm sure you've seen my build. I kept stock up travel and still was able to get plenty of wheel travel for what I do. Now I need to figure out what to do for the front end to keep up with the rear. I don't have money for SAS or LT right now but I feel like I can get a few more inches out of the travel effectively.
I feel like if we sat around long enough with some beer, we could come up with some cool shit to make these 4Runner's perform better.


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[jkeith.w]

Dude I've been thinking the same thing about the tie rods! Trying to think of a simple/effective way to either flip the tie rods to the top or run heims to get them on top. Makes no sense to mount them like they did.
I don't like the limited up travel crap that everyone uses either. I'm sure you've seen my build. I kept stock up travel and still was able to get plenty of wheel travel for what I do. Now I need to figure out what to do for the front end to keep up with the rear. I don't have money for SAS or LT right now but I feel like I can get a few more inches out of the travel effectively.
I feel like if we sat around long enough with some beer, we could come up with some cool shit to make these 4Runner's perform better.


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I have ideas for the tie rods/knuckles from the Porsche racing world; as to the beer think tank sessions; let's plan on that.

 

[AssBurns]

I have ideas for the tie rods/knuckles from the Porsche racing world; as to the beer think tank sessions; let's plan on that.

I'd love to hear some ideas on the tie rods.
Too bad we live on the opposite ends of the country...


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[jkeith.w]

I'd love to hear some ideas on the tie rods.
Too bad we live on the opposite ends of the country...


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meh; I'm in Cali twice a year on business, typically.

(in fact drove out there & back last November in a '72 911 for an event!)

 

[AssBurns]

meh; I'm in Cali twice a year on business, typically.

(in fact drove out there & back last November in a '72 911 for an event!)

Sounds awesome to drive a classic Porsche across the country! We will have to figure out some beer think tank sessions next time your out here.


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