Poor V8 fuel economy caused by Awd?

[bulldog-yota]

Timing chain never needs replacement. What I was getting at is that a V6 is normally cheaper to maintain than a V8 because of materials and labor.

Tming chains do require replacement adn the tensioners as well. It just lasts a lot longer on average than belts. The thing with belts are that they are replaced as part of maintenance as they give no warning signs of failure. Chains tend to get noisy before they fail.

But just an FYI if you dont plan on keeping your 4R longer than 90k miles, you should not worry about it. As the belts require replacement at 90k.

Also the V6 requires new plugs every 30k, vs the V8 which requires it at 100k. Again if you only plan on keeping the 4R 90k or so, it puts the V6 at a disadvantage.

The V6 is easier to change oil as the filter is on top, no skid plate removal. It also requires 1qt less oil. Yet I have to see a maintenance shop or dealer pass the saving on to the customer. It is only when you do it yourself than you will gain the 1qt of oil.

Plug wire do not need to be replaced on the V8 as it has integrated coils for each plug, so no plug wires as you are used to. I'm not sure on the V6, but will be seriously dissappointed if it still uses coil packs.

So I wish that people would stop trying to bash each other, but rather put some infomative discussion down.

I love Pitbull's analysis on syn oil vs dino. We do not always agree but at least are able to justify both sides of the arguments properly.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Everybody knows that real mean drive V8's or higher.

Ah dude go get an Explorer V8 and you will notice it has less power than the Toy V6.

Also real men guzzle beer every night, kick the dog, beat the wife and shoot the neighbour. Then come the morning they get thrown in jail, where REAL men make "girlie men" out of them.

If you have nothing meaningful to say, keep quiet.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the informative information bulldog. You gotta admit that the timing chain thing by sharp4runr was kind of funny.

 

[sharp4runr]

Thanks for the informative information bulldog. You gotta admit that the timing chain thing by sharp4runr was kind of funny.

ahhhh yes because you've been a wealth of knowledge right? huh, oh well you've been banned; again....

Well I'm on this forum to learn new things and that post was informative Bulldog. I just assumed that since they didn't have a prescribed replacement interval that it wouldn't be maintenance issue.

 

[bulldog-yota]

ahhhh yes because you've been a wealth of knowledge right? huh, oh well you've been banned; again....

Well I'm on this forum to learn new things and that post was informative Bulldog. I just assumed that since they didn't have a prescribed replacement interval that it wouldn't be maintenance issue.

Yeah, I dont get some of these guys. Too many iof them lately.

There are a lot fo things that is no listed on the maintenance schedule, that should be replaced. However you can normally tell when they are done, like brake pads, shocks, etc.

The timing chain vs belt issue has been going on for ages and it seems manufacturers can't make uop hteir minds which to use. First chains, then belts, now chains again, who knows. I used to like belts, cause they are easy to replace. They sit outside the oil system as they require no lube, which makes it easier to replace. Then I looked at the V8 and went uh-oh, this is going to be a bitch. The chain on the v6 will be worse to replace, but I seriously doubt you will ever encounter it unless you plan on keeping your 4R a very long time. Most people will not keep their 4R beyond 80k or even 60k.

 

[TRD04RUNNER]

Ah dude go get an Explorer V8 and you will notice it has less power than the Toy V6.

Also real men guzzle beer every night, kick the dog, beat the wife and shoot the neighbour. Then come the morning they get thrown in jail, where REAL men make "girlie men" out of them.

If you have nothing meaningful to say, keep quiet.

the lube guy meet the catcher :headslap: :moon: :sobbing: :runaway:

 

[DaveS]

The kind of trolling that seems to be in this thread annoys me. I will never understand the satisfaction some people seem to derive from this kind of activity.

Thankfully it looks like the mods have cut it off. I think we all love our truck regardless of the engine or generation in fact and just want to share that with others of like minds.

That's why I'm here.

 

[bulldog-yota]

the lube guy meet the catcher :headslap: :moon: :sobbing: :runaway:

???????????

 

[sharp4runr]

I'm not most people :

I plan to drive this thing till it don't drive no more. I traded in a 93 Celica with 155k miles for the 4Runner. It was paid for and I almost feel I should have kept it, but I don't have the drive way space to accomodate it. I'm damn sure the Celica would have lasted me at least another 100k as it was very well put together.

well to get back on topic - SUVs don't get good mileage. Wait till the Lexus RX330 Hybrid comes out, then that may change...

 

[Hitman]

10 more horsepower on premium gas is better at the pump?

The V8 makes 10 less HP, on regular gas, and more torque.

As far as I know, premium fuel is recommended (but not REQUIRED) for either engine.

 

[Hitman]

Tming chains do require replacement adn the tensioners as well. It just lasts a lot longer on average than belts. The thing with belts are that they are replaced as part of maintenance as they give no warning signs of failure. Chains tend to get noisy before they fail.


A good auto tech can hear when a timing belt needs to be replaced. One of the guys I worked with at Toyota could do this.... he had been working on Toyota engines for so long he just developed an ear for it.


But just an FYI if you dont plan on keeping your 4R longer than 90k miles, you should not worry about it. As the belts require replacement at 90k.

Also the V6 requires new plugs every 30k, vs the V8 which requires it at 100k. Again if you only plan on keeping the 4R 90k or so, it puts the V6 at a disadvantage.

Where did you hear that? The V6 isn't due for a plug replacement for 100K miles.



The V6 is easier to change oil as the filter is on top, no skid plate removal. It also requires 1qt less oil. Yet I have to see a maintenance shop or dealer pass the saving on to the customer. It is only when you do it yourself than you will gain the 1qt of oil.

Plug wire do not need to be replaced on the V8 as it has integrated coils for each plug, so no plug wires as you are used to. I'm not sure on the V6, but will be seriously dissappointed if it still uses coil packs.

Coil on plug ignition.... not a coil pack, yet no need for ignition wires. This has been standard on most engines for years now...

So I wish that people would stop trying to bash each other, but rather put some infomative discussion down.

I love Pitbull's analysis on syn oil vs dino. We do not always agree but at least are able to justify both sides of the arguments properly.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Good for the auto tech that could hear a belt is in need of a replacement. I've heard of this, but only from you. Belts normally need to be inspected visually, but then you might as well replace them.

Maybe you need to check your maintenance schedules for your V6. The V6 requires new plugs every 30k miles. See http://smg.toyotapartsandservice.com/pdfs/truck_service_04_23.pdf

COil packs was the standard for 4Runners till 2002 and individual coil on ignition has only been on high end vehicles for the last few years. The toyota V8 only got it since it was derived from the Lexus engine. I have not inspected the V6, but I would certainly hope they switched over.

 

[Hitman]

Good for the auto tech that could hear a belt is in need of a replacement. I've heard of this, but only from you. Belts normally need to be inspected visually, but then you might as well replace them.

Most people don't visually inspect a timing belt. They simply change it at specific intervals because of the life expectancy. On an interference engine, it can be disastrous if the timing belt should break.

Maybe you need to check your maintenance schedules for your V6. The V6 requires new plugs every 30k miles. See http://smg.toyotapartsandservice.com/pdfs/truck_service_04_23.pdf



Maybe you should take a look under my hood where you'll find Iridium-tipped spark plugs, right from the factory. In case you're unfamiliar with Iridium-tipped plugs, let me just say that they are the next step up from platinum. And they last for 100K miles or more.


COil packs was the standard for 4Runners till 2002 and individual coil on ignition has only been on high end vehicles for the last few years. The toyota V8 only got it since it was derived from the Lexus engine. I have not inspected the V6, but I would certainly hope they switched over.

Coil on plug ignition has been around for longer than you think... and not just on high end vehicles. Hell, the '01 Ford Escape (V6) had coil on plug ignition.

 

[bulldog-yota]

That is why I said they just replace timing belts, why go through all the trouble to inspcet if you can repalce for the same effort. It is not like the part is expensive or anything.


You really need to check your maintenance schedule for the V6, unless you know better than Toyota. They clearly list the plugs to be changed at 30k intervals. So I guess you pulled your plugs and have discussed it with Toyota??


Coil on individual plugs is only becoming the standard now, yes some manufacturers have changed some models earlier some have not.

 

[Hitman]

That is why I said they just replace timing belts, why go through all the trouble to inspcet if you can repalce for the same effort. It is not like the part is expensive or anything.

Sure, they just replace them... but the discussion started with the advantage of a timing chain over a timing belt. Nobody can deny the fact that timing belts NEED to be replaced more often than a timing chain. Chalk up a point for the V6. Less maintenance.


You really need to check your maintenance schedule for the V6, unless you know better than Toyota. They clearly list the plugs to be changed at 30k intervals. So I guess you pulled your plugs and have discussed it with Toyota??


Just because you pulled up some PDF file of what appears to be a dealership maintenance schedule (who typically have their own agenda, not the same as Toyota), you know better than the information found in my owner's manual and maintenace schedule??

I'll say this one more time... slowly for you... my 4Runner came with Iridium spark plugs, which Toyota says will last 100K miles or more. It's in black and white, right in the literature that came with my 4Runner.



Coil on individual plugs is only becoming the standard now, yes some manufacturers have changed some models earlier some have not.

The majority of production engines have used coil on plug ignition for a few years now. The ones that don't are definitely in the minority. This is not new or expensive technology.

 

[Bluto]

As far as I know, premium fuel is recommended (but not REQUIRED) for either engine.

You must use premium fuel to achieve the 245 HP in the V6.

The V8 ouput was 235 on regular gas.

In most areas, the extra cost of premium would negates the V6's better MPG. You can't have more horse power, and save at the pump.


I imagine the new V8 needs premium to obtain the 270.





Back on topic, I don't think the full time 4WD affects MPG much. Most of the 4WD system up front spins all the time, engaged or not. The half-shafts and center diff still spins. It still takes energy.

Where does the V6 system engage 4WD? It is probably in the 4Runner FAQ somewhere.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Hitman, again you are trying to argue with me, without checking your facts properly. The PDF is from Toyota and not a dealer. Also check your maintenance manual that came with your 4Runner. The 1GRFE (4.0 V6) requires it's plugs to be changed every 30k.

BTW the V8 comes with the Iridium plugs.

ANd you know well enough the a timing chain also needs replacement, they just tend to last longer as I have already stated. Unfortunately their replacement cost is much higher as it requires more labor and the parts are more expensive.

 

[TranceKrayz]

I think Bulldog is right......I just looked at my manual and it says under the 30,000 miles interval (quote):

"Replace non-platinum spark plugs (4Runner w/ IGR-FE, Sequoia, Tacoma, Tundra)"

And then there's a footnote that says (quote):

"Required under the terms of the Emission Control Warranty"

 

[Hitman]

Hitman, again you are trying to argue with me, without checking your facts properly. The PDF is from Toyota and not a dealer. Also check your maintenance manual that came with your 4Runner. The 1GRFE (4.0 V6) requires it's plugs to be changed every 30k.

BTW the V8 comes with the Iridium plugs.

ANd you know well enough the a timing chain also needs replacement, they just tend to last longer as I have already stated. Unfortunately their replacement cost is much higher as it requires more labor and the parts are more expensive.

Okay, I'll try this one more time, since you don't seem to be paying attention to my words....

The literature that came with my 4Runner states that I have Iridium sparks plugs that do not need to be changed for 100K miles. Is that enough FACTS for you??

BTW, the labor on a timing chain is the same as a timing belt. But of course we know that the chain will last much longer.

 

[sharp4runr]

You must use premium fuel to achieve the 245 HP in the V6.

The V8 ouput was 235 on regular gas.

I imagine the new V8 needs premium to obtain the 270.

Can you prove that with cold hard facts? For the sake of argument of course