Poor V8 fuel economy caused by Awd?

cmj685:

I have owned the 2003 V8 since January 2003

it has been pretty much hanging on 19MPG, started out at 18 MPG, broke in to 19 around 20k miles

It goes down with hauling or 4 wheeling, but not too steeply, I only tow a boat a few miles up and down a grade a few thousand feet or so...
 
Hitman said:
Okay, I'll try this one more time, since you don't seem to be paying attention to my words....

The literature that came with my 4Runner states that I have Iridium sparks plugs that do not need to be changed for 100K miles. Is that enough FACTS for you??


Ok this is what you will find in your manual and maintenance guide in your literature.
http://smg.toyotapartsandservice.com/pdfs/truck_service_04.pdf

Read what they say for 30k mile services for the 1GRFE engine.

So you must have a very special v6 4Runner. Maybe you need to tell Toyota to update their maintenance guides and let all the dealers know.

I tell you what, I need an oil change next week and I'll get the Toyota literature from the dealer as well and have a looky at what they say for the 05 V6 and see what they say about the 04 V6 as well.

I also notice you started another thread on this topic, I'll give it a bumpy and lets see what the other V6 manuals have to say.

BTW, the labor on a timing chain is the same as a timing belt. But of course we know that the chain will last much longer.

A timing belt requires less effort to replace than a chain. As the belt is located outside the inner engines seals, as it doesn't require lubrication. When you replace a chain, you need to replace the guides as well as all the gaskets on the front end of the block with it. You effectively have to open the front end of the block to replace a chain. The good thing is that you dont have to do it as a regular maintenance item (i.e. every 90k miles), but only on a as needed basis. But they do also wear out.
 
sharp4runr said:
Can you prove that with cold hard facts? For the sake of argument of course:)

I have a copy of the "University of Toyota" 2003 4Runner Product information pdf.

On page 6,

"4. 245 Hp @ 5,200 rpm: 283 ft/lbs @ 3,400 rpm
(on 91 octane Premium fuel)"

The 4.0 is a 10:1 compression ratio.

The V8 was 9.6:1. No premium fuel disclaimer.

Most reviews on the new Tacoma state the same information.
 
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Bluto said:
I have a copy of the "University of Toyota" 2003 4Runner Product information pdf.

On page 6,

"4. 245 Hp @ 5,200 rpm: 283 ft/lbs @ 3,400 rpm
(on 91 octane Premium fuel)"

The 4.0 is a 10:1 compression ratio.

The V8 was 9.6:1. No premium fuel disclaimer.

Most reviews on the new Tacoma state the same information.

Who created the "University of Toyota" PDF?

Is this an official Toyota document?

If so, then why would Toyota knowingly list the HP numbers of the V8 engine on low octane fuel, if highe octane fuel would increase them? Doesn't make sense, does it?

Either they did use premium fuel to come up with their advertised numbers, or the V8 engine does not make more HP with high octane fuel as compared to lower octane fuel.

HP numbers are important for advertising. There's no way Toyota would downplay them, especially considering that the V6 engine is rated higher than the V8. If anything, I would expect them to understate the V6 HP rating to make the V8 look better.
 
bulldog,

If need be, I'll pull a plug out of my 4Runner and snap a pic to post on the forum. It is easy to distinguish an Iridium spark plug by the very narrow center electrode.
 
Hitman said:
Who created the "University of Toyota" PDF?

Is this an official Toyota document?

If so, then why would Toyota knowingly list the HP numbers of the V8 engine on low octane fuel, if highe octane fuel would increase them? Doesn't make sense, does it?
If it's a Toyota University product info file, then it's made by Toyota and is as "official" as it gets. Marketing reasons aside (and I agree that it seems ass backwards), it says what it says.

Of course, if the CR was higher on the V6 than the V8 (I don't remember them off hand), then it would make sense that the V6 would see hp benefits from higher octane fuel that the V8 would not. If the V6 is pulling timing on regular, and not on premium....there's your hp difference. If the V8 is not pulling timing on regular, it will not see any increase in power from higher octane fuel.
 
bulldog-yota said:
and the thread gets so many post with good usable information now


as to the original question, yes permanent AWD will hurt gas mileage. How much is a topic of debate though, but if I had to guess I would say probably 1mpg or so.

I seriously doubt there will be much difference in the gas mileage of a 2WD V6 vs a 2wd V8 for the 05s.

Its not just the 4WD that affects the gas mileage. Weight, displacement, driving habits, and altitude all play apart.

The V8 will always use more gas than a V6...the question is... how much more? :D
 
iFORCE said:

The V8 will always use more gas than a V6...the question is... how much more? :D
In a 2wd V6 vs a 2wd V8 of the same equipment level, both with similar and average drivers, I would bet money that the difference would be less than 1MPG and it could go either way.
 
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"In a 2wd V6 vs a 2wd V8 of the same equipment level, both we similar and average drivers, I would bet money that the difference would be less than 1MPG and it could go either way."

I would bet that Northof49 is probably right. My V6, as much as I like it, does not get all that great MPG. I only have 2500 miles on the beast, but I'm hoping the numbers will go up a bit. Right now I probably average around 14 to 15 around city. I'm going by the readout on the dash which pretty consistently reads 16 to 17 MPG. Hopefully it will get better with time. By the way, I only use 4WD in bad weather, I almost always have it in 2WD.
 
Too much penis waving going on here everyone....

Stick to the basic fundamentals now....

1. AWD engaged all the time will cause a decrease in fuel mileage, it's extra drivetrain loss.

2. V8 engine will consume more fuel than a V6 - it simply displaces more, it will consume more fuel and air per RPM than the V6.

3. The V8 is geared higher since it has a better torque curve, hence the relationships of fuel economy and acceleration. You can't compare an engine to an engine, you have to consider the transmissions on them as well, or essentially the final drive ratio.

4. Saying that the V8 will last longer than the V6 because the V6 works harder is a bunch of B.S. The longevity of the engine is based on several other key factors. I can give another line of B.S. to this arguement - The V8 will fail sooner because it has extra moving parts that will make it more susceptible to failure. It's all bogus - until you take a class or research failure analysis, crack propagation, fatigue, etc., keep all the dick waving comments out of these forums.

If everyone uses facts and logic, there will be very little arguing going on. Just focus on the fundamental aspects of each engine and drivetrain setup.
 
Hitman said:
bulldog,

If need be, I'll pull a plug out of my 4Runner and snap a pic to post on the forum. It is easy to distinguish an Iridium spark plug by the very narrow center electrode.

DO you still want to argue?? Then pull the plug and let us know, cause you will be the only one we know with a V6 with iridium plugs. But I seriously doubt it.
 
Northof49 said:
If the V8 is not pulling timing on regular, it will not see any increase in power from higher octane fuel.

That's exactly my point... if the V8 is not pulling timing on regular fuel, then there is no way it could make more HP with higher octane fuel. But the manual clearly states that 91 octane fuel should be used for maximum performance. If that only applies to the V6 engine, then it should say that....
 
bulldog-yota said:
DO you still want to argue?? Then pull the plug and let us know, cause you will be the only one we know with a V6 with iridium plugs. But I seriously doubt it.

Well, I must have a special 4Runner then, because mine came with Iridium plugs. Isn't it a strange coincidence that I also had a supplement in my glovebox that explains this??

Very strange....
 
Hitman said:
Well, I must have a special 4Runner then, because mine came with Iridium plugs. Isn't it a strange coincidence that I also had a supplement in my glovebox that explains this??

Very strange....

V6 with iridium? wouldn't that screw up the timing/performance?

yes hitman.. you truly are special... i mean.. you have a special truck. :D
 
Hitman said:
That's exactly my point... if the V8 is not pulling timing on regular fuel, then there is no way it could make more HP with higher octane fuel. But the manual clearly states that 91 octane fuel should be used for maximum performance. If that only applies to the V6 engine, then it should say that....
Well, although the V8 may not pull timing during normal load/heat conditions, it's entirely possible during the summer, going up a long pass, A/C running, towing a trailer....maybe that's where the "maximum performance" wording comes from.

For the V6 with a higher CR, the timing threshold may be lower, and it may need higher octane fuel for power under more "normal" conditions.
 
Hitman said:
It wouldn't affect the timing at all... has absolutely nothing to do with it.

so you can stick the iridiums in the V6 and there wouldn't be an issue with performance/engine reliability?

Iridiums last longer... so that would be a good reason to use them.
 
Hitman said:
Well, I must have a special 4Runner then, because mine came with Iridium plugs. Isn't it a strange coincidence that I also had a supplement in my glovebox that explains this??

Very strange....
I answered you on this point in the other thread, no need to keep this off topic discussion going in this thread. If you choose we can continue on the thread you started.

Back to topic for this thread for me.
 
OK, permamnent 4WD will have an effect on fuel consumption. ON older 4WD that you could unlock the front hubs and run in 2wd you could see a difference of easily up to 1 MPG when you forgot to unlock the front hubs on long trips. This is due to the additional drivetrain "drag" of the front axle when it is enaged. This was on smaller engine capaity vehicles than the 4Runner, but it is still noticeable.

I also think even with the 2WD 4Runner the V6 will have a slight advantage over the V8. As the V8 weighs like 200lb more and has to deal with greater internal engine "drag", having 2 extra cylinders and more capacity.

My 2c on this one.
 
Hitman said:
That's exactly my point... if the V8 is not pulling timing on regular fuel, then there is no way it could make more HP with higher octane fuel. But the manual clearly states that 91 octane fuel should be used for maximum performance.

Who claimed the V8 would more more HP on premium? That is something you imagined.

A V8 won't make more HP on premium. But it is less likely to pull timing. I get the impression you don't know much about engines.

If you continued reading the manual, it states some very good reasons why premium fuel is recommend in the V8 and V6.

Any vehicle may knock and pull timing because:
Variations in engines within the same model due to manufacturing tolerances.
Extremely hot weather.
Build-up of engine deposits.
Changes in altitude.
Hard driving conditions (towing).


When timing is pulled, MPG and emission suffer. 'Performance' is not just about HP.

Toyota states the 245 HP in the V6 was achived on Premium 91 octane. Don't use premium, don't expect 245 HP.

So why did you choose the V6? Because you save at the pump, buying premium gas, to get 10 more HP than a V8? :bouncy2:
 

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