Possible 5 speed swap input appreciated

[zgensler31]

You should get Engine Control, 4WD, and Starting and Ignition for both years. Also get the auto trans for '96. Get the whole chapter on these, which should include the pin-outs. (Later EWD's had the pin-outs in a separate Chapter. I'm not sure what they did in '96 and '98 as I have a '99.)

If you want to look forward to matching your other harness, you might need a pile of others, especially for those tricky truckside non-ECU plugs.

Awesome I will get those for you as soon as I get back home. I'm in the barn now tearing the old motor/Trans out.

I feeling like I'm gonna stick with my auto harness and ecu for now. I can live with a cel. I mean it's been on for months now already...

So really the only thing I'll need is the add stuff for the j shift and to figure out which trans plug I have, if it's different then swimmerboys or dans

 

[zgensler31]

Sorry for the lack of updates guys. Ive been totally swamped. Worked on the truck u til 1130 last night. Had to work today, but was able to pull the motortrans out, this evening. Ill post a picture of my trans plug soon. And ill have to hold off til tomorrow to get the wiring diagrams.

And to clarify, ive decided to stick with the auto harness and ecu for now, ill probably repin, and use the manual ecu down the line, but for now I just want it running and driving

 

[danthemanx07]

Sorry for the lack of updates guys. Ive been totally swamped. Worked on the truck u til 1130 last night. Had to work today, but was able to pull the motortrans out, this evening. Ill post a picture of my trans plug soon. And ill have to hold off til tomorrow to get the wiring diagrams.

And to clarify, ive decided to stick with the auto harness and ecu for now, ill probably repin, and use the manual ecu down the line, but for now I just want it running and driving

Sounds good! If you can swap an engine, then that pesky cel will not be a problem.

 

[zgensler31]

Sounds good! If you can swap an engine, then that pesky cel will not be a problem.

I know. I just feel like it will be a constant reminder that I 'half assed' the swap. Lol

 

[zgensler31]

[MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] looking this over for a couple hours now. Push button case has three switches. 4wd, neutral (which as far as I can tell, only triggers a dash light so not important) and 4wd.

The j shift case had 2. 4 hi and 4 low.

Can I wire the 4 low simply in place of the push button 4 low, then after removing/bypassing the 2-4 select switch (the button), wire my 4 hi switch in place of the 4wd switch? And then live without the neutral switch?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say my way is better then your idea, or even if mine would work... I just wanted to take a stab at trying to figure it out.

 

[zgensler31]

And my clutch/trans wiring is no big deal at all. It's the same as [MENTION=51788]Swimmerboy2112[/MENTION] so no need to look that over.

 

[TheDurk]

[MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] looking this over for a couple hours now. Push button case has three switches. 4wd, neutral (which as far as I can tell, only triggers a dash light so not important) and 4wd.

The j shift case had 2. 4 hi and 4 low.

Can I wire the 4 low simply in place of the push button 4 low, then after removing/bypassing the 2-4 select switch (the button), wire my 4 hi switch in place of the 4wd switch? And then live without the neutral switch?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say my way is better then your idea, or even if mine would work... I just wanted to take a stab at trying to figure it out.

A good question. I was looking at the same possibility and was going to suggest we consider it. You are then trying to trick the Auto 4WD ECU into doing what you want it to do, (engage the ADD in 4wd) without it getting all the feedback it expects. Best I can say is it MIGHT work, but I have no objections to trying. My concern is that if the Auto 4WD ECU is not getting the engaged signal from the TC actuator that is no longer there, it might refuse to engage the ADD. The hope is that it just uses that signal to control the actuator motor, and there is no link to the ADD circuit. If it doesn't work, we can always go back to my idea as Plan B (install the manual 4wd relay). I don't think it will be that hard to try it if you want to go that route.

I am also concerned about keeping your e-locker in operation. This way may be superior as to that aspect as we are pretty much keeping all the original wiring.

Unfortunately, even in the manuals, Toyota doesn't give much info about the INTERNAL workings of these modules, so we have to guess. We know what the relay does, but that auto 4WD ECU is a black box.

 

[zgensler31]

I think I might try it this way so I can retain as much if the original wiring and stuff.

 

[TheDurk]

If your '96 plugs fit the transfer switch connectors on the '98 TC, that may be all you have to do. (Plug in L4 and 4WD position switches--you just need to match the '96 plugs with green-red and blue-red wires to the pigtails on the switches on the '98 TC with the same color wire--assuming those paigtails are there--they clip on to hangers on the TC and they should be there). The big thing here is that your '96 auto 4wd uses this simple combination. The '99 auto 4wd ecu I was looking at before uses a whole different and more complex logical set-up of position switches and it wasn't going to work, as far as I could tell. Now you see why it was worthwhile to get the exact diagrams. That was a big lucky break. Or you could say I misled you, but I was using the best EWD I had available.

If you're lucky, the ECU will work just like the relay and simply trigger the VSV's when the 4wd position switch engages. (L4 is also required for the e-locker circuit.) If it also requires the 2-4 switch to be engaged as well, we can wire those to a dash or console switch. Worst case is it also requires 2-4 signal from the TC actuator motor, and we can fake that too. But I'd try it straight up with just the TC switches to begin with.

Just curious--is there a speedometer issue with the swap in a '96?

 

[zgensler31]

If your '96 plugs fit the transfer switch connectors on the '98 TC, that may be all you have to do. (Plug in L4 and 4WD position switches--you just need to match the '96 plugs with green-red and blue-red wires to the pigtails on the switches on the '98 TC with the same color wire--assuming those paigtails are there--they clip on to hangers on the TC and they should be there). The big thing here is that your '96 auto 4wd uses this simple combination. The '99 auto 4wd ecu I was looking at before uses a whole different and more complex logical set-up of position switches and it wasn't going to work, as far as I could tell. Now you see why it was worthwhile to get the exact diagrams. That was a big lucky break. Or you could say I misled you, but I was using the best EWD I had available.

If you're lucky, the ECU will work just like the relay and simply trigger the VSV's when the 4wd position switch engages. (L4 is also required for the e-locker circuit.) If it also requires the 2-4 switch to be engaged as well, we can wire those to a dash or console switch. Worst case is it also requires 2-4 signal from the TC actuator motor, and we can fake that too. But I'd try it straight up with just the TC switches to begin with.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I don't think the plugs match, but can easily wire the switches up. Can you think of any ill effects of basically bypassing the 2-4 select switch, instead of using a dash one.

Gonna get back at the install tonight, hopefully get the motor and trans in.

 

[TheDurk]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I don't think the plugs match, but can easily wire the switches up. Can you think of any ill effects of basically bypassing the 2-4 select switch, instead of using a dash one.

Gonna get back at the install tonight, hopefully get the motor and trans in.

Well, if my theory is correct (Position switch alone controls VSV) then no ill effect whatsoever. If not, the ill effect is that ADD will not engage. Simple as that. We are not really by-passing it, we're just leaving it disconnected as it becomes (hopefully) irrelevant with a J-shift case as it has nothing to do. There is a long shot that it ties into the e-locker circuit but not the ADD circuit. So you need to check e-locker works too, before you declare victory.

 

[zgensler31]

Well, if my theory is correct (Position switch alone controls VSV) then no ill effect whatsoever. If not, the ill effect is that ADD will not engage. Simple as that. We are not really by-passing it, we're just leaving it disconnected as it becomes (hopefully) irrelevant with a J-shift case as it has nothing to do. There is a long shot that it ties into the e-locker circuit but not the ADD circuit. So you need to check e-locker works too, before you declare victory.

Awesome...this just might work out here. Lol

 

[zgensler31]

So finally have time to give you guys an update.

Got the motor and more importantly the R150F trans out of the donor truck.

20140503_151356 by zgensler31, on Flickr

The empty hole

20140503_151414 by zgensler31, on Flickr

My new clutch kit, had rhe flywheel resurfaced as well.

20140509_183517 by zgensler31, on Flickr

And intalled.

20140509_183454 by zgensler31, on Flickr

Another...

20140509_183501 by zgensler31, on Flickr

Some shots of the shop/barn ive been working in.

My truck partially torn down.

20140512_183400 by zgensler31, on Flickr

The tool bench. I love how ive been able to do this with pretty basic tools and a shop lift. Not any real specific tools or anything.

20140512_183406 by zgensler31, on Flickr

Shot of the new motor with trans mated up, the old intake plenum and my lift.

20140512_183414 by zgensler31, on Flickr

The most used tool in the box...

20140512_183442 by zgensler31, on Flickr

My truck torn down, almost ready to be hoisted out.

20140512_183450 by zgensler31, on Flickr

My creative way of getting the ac compressor out of the way.

20140512_183457 by zgensler31, on Flickr


20140512_183506 by zgensler31, on Flickr

My ride while the 4runner is down...too bad im not swapping that motor in. Good lord that truck has power.

20140512_183550 by zgensler31, on Flickr

And my next project....70's RUPP Scrambler

20140512_183619 by zgensler31, on Flickr

The trans plug from my auto. Its the same as swimmerboys.

20140513_173602 by zgensler31, on Flickr


And thats about it. Im heade out now to solder the wire splices together, and hopefully drop that pig into my truck.
[MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] I ended up wiring it up like we discussed. Using the jshifts 4lo and 4hi switches in place of the oush buttons, and elminating the push button selector switch, well see if it works.

 

[poleclimber63]

Looks like you have more room than I!! As you're going to a 5spd you don't have to worry, but last night I worked on my tranny cooler setup. Last year pulling my boat, I did experience some relatively high temps., so this year, along with my engine swap, I decided to install a second cooler--- I got them placed, last night, with no room to spare! This maybe an interim solution, before a tranny conversion next year, who knows! Waiting to see how yours turns out!!

 

[TheDurk]

If you are doing what I think you are doing, I don't believe it will work. You will just be telling a non-existent TC actuator (not the ADD actuator you want to engage) to engage or disengage when you move the J-shift.

What I think you need to do is wire your new position switches into the plugs for the position switches that are/were on the auto tranny TC you took out, matching up the wire colors. Anyway, that should be Plan B if your way doesn't work. As I said before, the auto 4wd ecu is a mystery black box, so how it works is anybody's guess. If the button alone actuates the ADD you will be fine.

Any chance you could post a close-up of the top rear of the auto tranny TC where the switches are? I know what the manual looks like.

 

[zgensler31]

If you are doing what I think you are doing, I don't believe it will work. You will just be telling a non-existent TC actuator (not the ADD actuator you want to engage) to engage or disengage when you move the J-shift.

What I think you need to do is wire your new position switches into the plugs for the position switches that are/were on the auto tranny TC you took out, matching up the wire colors. Anyway, that should be Plan B if your way doesn't work. As I said before, the auto 4wd ecu is a mystery black box, so how it works is anybody's guess. If the button alone actuates the ADD you will be fine.

Any chance you could post a close-up of the top rear of the auto tranny TC where the switches are? I know what the manual looks like.

I'm pretty sure I did it the way you just described. I must not have made it clear.

The 4low switch is actually identical on both. Same colors, same plug, same length. So I didn't even touch it. The I wired in the j shift 4 high switch in place of the non j shifts 4wd switch. Then I clipped the plug for the actual 4wd button and wired it solid. So looking at that diagram the wire runs solid, there it's no longer the 2-4 select or switch.

Let me know if I'm still not making sense or if you meant something different then that.

 

[zgensler31]

I don't have the pictures because there on my tablet but I've got another update.

Took the day off. Got to the barn about 11. And by 3 I had soldered all the of the connections, heat shrinked and loomed them.

Cut the hole in the Trans tunnel for the shifters.

And then I got the motor and trans in! It actually went in a lot better then it comes out.....that's what she said....but the motor and trans are in and bolted down.

Got the ac pump mounted and the power steering pump also. The exhaust is all done as well. Oh I also got the crank pulley back on and torqued down to spec.

And then I had to leave. was hoping to have gotten further tonight. But oh well. My new clutch switches should be here tomorrow as well.

 

[TheDurk]

I'm pretty sure I did it the way you just described. I must not have made it clear.

The 4low switch is actually identical on both. Same colors, same plug, same length. So I didn't even touch it. The I wired in the j shift 4 high switch in place of the non j shifts 4wd switch. Then I clipped the plug for the actual 4wd button and wired it solid. So looking at that diagram the wire runs solid, there it's no longer the 2-4 select or switch.

Let me know if I'm still not making sense or if you meant something different then that.

No, that's fine. I thought you meant you wired the position switches to the push button leads.

As to the push button solid connection, it probably makes no difference if you short it or not as it controls something that is not there.

Carry on...sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm curious, what are you doing with old engine/trans?

 

[zgensler31]

No, that's fine. I thought you meant you wired the position switches to the push button leads.

As to the push button solid connection, it probably makes no difference if you short it or not as it controls something that is not there.

Carry on...sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm curious, what are you doing with old engine/trans?

Funny you should mention. Both old motors just got sold today. My brother works with a guy that's got a t100. Got 350 out of both of them.

 

[zgensler31]

Alright guys, gonna need some help bouncing ideas off of you. I got everything bolted up, wired up and such. And...no start...I double check my wiring, im not positive on the reverse or the two wires running to the clutch release switch, but I confirmed that I have the black with red, and white with black wire, that were on my trans plug, extended into the cab and wired up to my clutch depress switch.
I even cut the switch iut of the sequence and wire nutted them and theres nothing. Wont turn over at all. Ive checked all fuses and they all seem well.

This leads me to believe that the starter is bad. Stupidly I left the starter that was on the motor when I got it. I have no clue if ot works or what not. So sfter frustratingly checking and checking everything I gave up for the night.
Plan is to attack the starter tomorrow and put the one from my 4runner in it.