Possible 5 speed swap input appreciated

[danthemanx07]

Alright guys, gonna need some help bouncing ideas off of you. I got everything bolted up, wired up and such. And...no start...I double check my wiring, im not positive on the reverse or the two wires running to the clutch release switch, but I confirmed that I have the black with red, and white with black wire, that were on my trans plug, extended into the cab and wired up to my clutch depress switch.
I even cut the switch iut of the sequence and wire nutted them and theres nothing. Wont turn over at all. Ive checked all fuses and they all seem well.

This leads me to believe that the starter is bad. Stupidly I left the starter that was on the motor when I got it. I have no clue if ot works or what not. So sfter frustratingly checking and checking everything I gave up for the night.
Plan is to attack the starter tomorrow and put the one from my 4runner in it.

You may also have a bad clutch depress switch. Try wire nutting the clutch depress switch wires directly together and see if that doesn't fix things.

Did you get a 1996 wiring diagram to determine if those were the proper wires?? The colors likely changed from year to year. For example, the wires for my clutch depress switch are black and black and white.

 

[TheDurk]

Alright guys, gonna need some help bouncing ideas off of you. I got everything bolted up, wired up and such. And...no start...I double check my wiring, im not positive on the reverse or the two wires running to the clutch release switch, but I confirmed that I have the black with red, and white with black wire, that were on my trans plug, extended into the cab and wired up to my clutch depress switch.
I even cut the switch iut of the sequence and wire nutted them and theres nothing. Wont turn over at all. Ive checked all fuses and they all seem well.

This leads me to believe that the starter is bad. Stupidly I left the starter that was on the motor when I got it. I have no clue if ot works or what not. So sfter frustratingly checking and checking everything I gave up for the night.
Plan is to attack the starter tomorrow and put the one from my 4runner in it.

The key question is: "Is the starter relay closing?" I'd try putting ground directly to Terminal 2 of the relay. This by-passes ALL of the clutch switch stuff. If no start then, confirm that the starter relay has 12V+ on BOTH Terminals 5 (ignition ON) and Terminal 1 (key in START position). If those are confirmed, then problem is indeed starter or the relay itself.

Good news for you is pulling the starter on a 5-speed is easier than on a slushbox, but don't do it if you don't need to.

 

[zgensler31]

You may also have a bad clutch depress switch. Try wire nutting the clutch depress switch wires directly together and see if that doesn't fix things.

Did you get a 1996 wiring diagram to determine if those were the proper wires?? The colors likely changed from year to year. For example, the wires for my clutch depress switch are black and black and white.

Yeah I have the diagrams. And It Is The Two That need Tied in. And they are actually wire nutted. I suspected the switch was bad from the start.

 

[zgensler31]

The key question is: "Is the starter relay closing?" I'd try putting ground directly to Terminal 2 of the relay. This by-passes ALL of the clutch switch stuff. If no start then, confirm that the starter relay has 12V+ on BOTH Terminals 5 (ignition ON) and Terminal 1 (key in START position). If those are confirmed, then problem is indeed starter or the relay itself.

Good news for you is pulling the starter on a 5-speed is easier than on a slushbox, but don't do it if you don't need to.

Awesome will do.

 

[zgensler31]

Was just about to head out to the barn and decided to take a second loom at wiring. Noticed one thing thst I had a question/concern about.

There is a park/neutral switch in the stsrting and ignition diagram, and another in the 4wd with 2-4 select diagram.

I have the one for starting and ignition wired up into the cab for he clutch start cancel. Do I need tbe other? Do I need both? Im including the two diagrams, and a video of the attempted start.

This is the one wored into the cab

Untitled by zgensler31, on Flickr

This one I justnnotoced tnis afternoon

Untitled by zgensler31, on Flickr

 

[TheDurk]

No, you don't need the other one, unless you put the auto tranny back in. It's nothing to do with start circuit.

 

[zgensler31]

Alright [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] I checked those two things. I grounded out terminal 2 and it did nothing. Terminal 5 has 12 volts in the on position and Terminal 1 has nothing in the start position.

Also accidentally touched terminal 5 to the silver top part of the relay and that turned the motor.

So I'm back to thinking it's my wiring..is that what it has to be.

Buddy whose lending me his barn mentioned that because I soldered my joints together it could become a resistor. Could this factor in.

 

[zgensler31]

Got your email. I just keep triple checking everything. I have two relays, that were both fine before I started pulling stuff out, and both are producing the same results. I will keep checking for stuff, but at this point I'm kinda lost.

 

[zgensler31]

Would the computer shift lock from the auto need put back in? Just throwing out anything.

 

[zgensler31]

Would the computer shift lock from the auto need put back in? Just throwing out anything.

Nope. Tried that didn't work. Stupid idea.

 

[zgensler31]

To explain what I did that caused it to turn over, but not fire, is connected terminal 3 to Terminal 5.

 

[zgensler31]

This has turned into a nightmare. Gonna head back out and double check any and every plug I have in the engine bay. If anybody has any ideas at all throw them out please.

 

[TheDurk]

To explain what I did that caused it to turn over, but not fire, is connected terminal 3 to Terminal 5.

AHHH, THAT would do it. T1 HAS to have 12V+ when key is on START. It is either your 30A AM2 fuse in the main box (check this now) or your key switch. Check the fuse and we'll go from there. Do not despair, you are very close.

Can you confirm T2 is grounded when clutch is depressed, and not when released? That will validate your clutch wiring. Run a test light from battery positive to T2 and then work the clutch. It should go on and off.

 

[zgensler31]

AHHH, THAT would do it. T1 HAS to have 12V+ when key is on START. It is either your 30A AM2 fuse in the main box (check this now) or your key switch. Check the fuse and we'll go from there. Do not despair, you are very close.

Can you confirm T2 is grounded when clutch is depressed, and not when released? That will validate your clutch wiring. Run a test light from battery positive to T2 and then work the clutch. It should go on and off.

Omg Durk you are the man! Grabbed the 30 amp from the parts truck, and even though it looked the same, I plugged it in and vroom! It's running baby.

On a side note, ive got what appears to be a lot of oil on the ground, and coming from the oil filter. Will report back soon.

But that is a mechanical nuts and bolts and probably a seal issue. Which I am comfortable with. Not wires. Not yet

Although I'm getting there after this project..

 

[TheDurk]

That's a great feeling when the motor purrs after major surgery. I felt that way after my first timing belt job. Keep us posted as to the 4wd and e-locker tests.

 

[danthemanx07]

Glad to hear the good news! Another successful swap! I like it!

 

[zgensler31]

Not 100% successful just yet. But thanks Dan. Yue thread has been a huge help. Started it back up this evening and I noticed two things.

I believe I got the oil leak solved. Either the filter wasn't on tight enough, or didn't have enough thread. The jdm union fitting was like 1 thread smaller then the usdm, so I switched that and got it tighter. Appeared to stay tight.
I've either got an issue with my clutch, or I simply over greased some things in there. In neutral, I can let it out and feel the clutch plate grab, and can hear it as well. This I believe is normal. What isnt, is that I got some smoke rising from the back of the motor near the firewall. Is this normal? I did grease the stuff as the Haynes manual says. Like the throw out bearing, the shift fork, push pin on the slave cylinder etc.

Also in burping the coolant one of my rusty rear heater lines sprung a leak, so I need to take care of that as well.

 

[danthemanx07]

Not 100% successful just yet. But thanks Dan. Yue thread has been a huge help. Started it back up this evening and I noticed two things.

I believe I got the oil leak solved. Either the filter wasn't on tight enough, or didn't have enough thread. The jdm union fitting was like 1 thread smaller then the usdm, so I switched that and got it tighter. Appeared to stay tight.
I've either got an issue with my clutch, or I simply over greased some things in there. In neutral, I can let it out and feel the clutch plate grab, and can hear it as well. This I believe is normal. What isnt, is that I got some smoke rising from the back of the motor near the firewall. Is this normal? I did grease the stuff as the Haynes manual says. Like the throw out bearing, the shift fork, push pin on the slave cylinder etc.

Also in burping the coolant one of my rusty rear heater lines sprung a leak, so I need to take care of that as well.

It sounds like your clutch pedal needs adjustment. I think this is covered in the Haynes manual, but if not, then it is definitely in the Toyota manual. The adjustments to the pedal are pretty precise, but depending on how exacting you installation of the pedal assembly was, the factory measurements may or may not work for you. The rod connecting the pedal to the master cylinder is threaded and has a lock nut on it IIRC. You need to adjust it out (away from teh firewall) I believe. With mine, the smoke was caused by the clutch continually riding the flywheel, and it stopped once I adjusted the pedal. I did not do mine by the book. I think I just fooled with it until the clutch was not catching at full release, but I could still shift easily.

I have also replaced those heater lines... I cut mine in high up in the engine compartment and behind the rust at the other in and replaced with automotive fuel line. Been fine now for several years. The replacement hard lines run $100+.

 

[zgensler31]

Hey, I like that idea a lot better. because when picking up the fuel line and clamps for the coolant line the guy at napa, who is also a mechanic thought it seemed like the pilot bearing.

So I'll adjust the pedal and go from there. Thanks man.

 

[TheDurk]

Not 100% successful just yet. But thanks Dan. Yue thread has been a huge help. Started it back up this evening and I noticed two things.

I believe I got the oil leak solved. Either the filter wasn't on tight enough, or didn't have enough thread. The jdm union fitting was like 1 thread smaller then the usdm, so I switched that and got it tighter. Appeared to stay tight.
I've either got an issue with my clutch, or I simply over greased some things in there. In neutral, I can let it out and feel the clutch plate grab, and can hear it as well. This I believe is normal. What isnt, is that I got some smoke rising from the back of the motor near the firewall. Is this normal? I did grease the stuff as the Haynes manual says. Like the throw out bearing, the shift fork, push pin on the slave cylinder etc.

Also in burping the coolant one of my rusty rear heater lines sprung a leak, so I need to take care of that as well.

I did my clutch at home in October. I greased everything as you described, and zero smoke--all was smooth as silk. Still is. So I doubt it's normal. The pedal adjustment described above makes sense to me. It's the only thing you CAN adjust. Is the slave pin straight? If not, the fork is in wrong. That might do it, too.