Postive Camber after alignment with new 99 talls, OME906, Bilstein 4600s

[SOCAL_02LIMITED]

Has anyone experienced this with this common set-up? I'm worried about tire wear and the looks of it. Is there enough adjustment to straighten it out?

I put this set up on a 2002 that had sag issues.

Please help!

Thanks.

 

[rallypoint_1]

I have a bit of positive up front. Alignment done but the big tire killer is out of whack toe. Any pic of said camber?

 

[phattyduck]

Wait, you haven't aligned it yet? The front suspension will add (positive) camber when lifted, that's 100% normal.

Go get it aligned. The front springs are stock (for at least one version of the truck), so unless you have a bent frame or something, it should align right with all the stock parts.

-Charlie

 

[SOCAL_02LIMITED]

Wait, you haven't aligned it yet? The front suspension will add (positive) camber when lifted, that's 100% normal.

Go get it aligned. The front springs are stock (for at least one version of the truck), so unless you have a bent frame or something, it should align right with all the stock parts.

-Charlie

Yes, it is already been aligned (though i wasn't given the readings) though i didn't notice the camber issue until i got home.

 

[phattyduck]

I'd go back to the shop that did the alignment and get them to do it right. You can check your alignment cams to see how much they were messed with - you might find they didn't do anything to them.

I have a suspicion that the shop just did a toe-and-go alignment and ignored the camber and caster adjustments...

-Charlie

 

[JayRolla]

Yes, it is already been aligned (though i wasn't given the readings) though i didn't notice the camber issue until i got home.

I bet your cam bolts are seized and they didnt say anything. If you can visually see the camber off it will wear the tires out. I ended up getting aligned at a different shop and camber was fine after that. The shop I was using had some miscalibrated machines or something.

 

[badattitude]

I had to go to four different Toyota dealers before I found one that would align my 4runner with negative camber. Two said they can't fit their alignment tool on BFG All Terrains another said I need $1800 worth of lower control arms and bushings. Finally found one who would do what I asked in Elmhurst, IL. I brought in the exact specs I wanted and asked to get as close as possible. My advice is to bring the numbers you want to hit and if a shop gives you any trouble just say thanks and go someplace else. No point in paying someone if they don't want to do the work. Sorry I don't have the specs I used handy. It's easy to find the approved specifications of camber, caster and toe-in for third gens on the forum. Just be sure to tell the shop exactly what numbers you want and see how close they can get. If they don't balk at your request for specific numbers they should be able to get pretty close. I asked for something like 0 toe-in, -.05 camber and +.05 caster. Not sure... that's just from memory. Don't use those numbers without cross-checking the approved specifications. And don't let them tell you the printer is broken. Get the actual printout before you leave.

I wanted the top in, the bottom forward and the toe-in at zero.

 

[JayRolla]

I had to go to four different Toyota dealers before I found one that would align my 4runner with negative camber. Two said they can't fit their alignment tool on BFG All Terrains another said I need $1800 worth of lower control arms and bushings. Finally found one who would do what I asked in Elmhurst, IL. I brought in the exact specs I wanted and asked to get as close as possible. My advice is to bring the numbers you want to hit and if a shop gives you any trouble just say thanks and go someplace else. No point in paying someone if they don't want to do the work. Sorry I don't have the specs I used handy. It's easy to find the approved specifications of camber, caster and toe-in for third gens on the forum. Just be sure to tell the shop exactly what numbers you want and see how close they can get. If they don't balk at your request for specific numbers they should be able to get pretty close. I asked for something like 0 toe-in, -.05 camber and +.05 caster. Not sure... that's just from memory. Don't use those numbers without cross-checking the approved specifications. And don't let them tell you the printer is broken. Get the actual printout before you leave.

I wanted the top in, the bottom forward and the toe-in at zero.

0-.1 toe in, 0-.2 camber and up to 3* caster is ideal.

 

[ltsr]

Yes, it is already been aligned (though i wasn't given the readings) though i didn't notice the camber issue until i got home.

I agree with others in here. Get it re-aligned. I had to take mine to two different places. Also, ask for a print out of the before and after. I don't believe caster is adjustable with the stock components. If i'm wrong, i'm sure someone will correct me.

 

[mtbtim]

I agree with others in here. Get it re-aligned. I had to take mine to two different places. Also, ask for a print out of the before and after. I don't believe caster is adjustable with the stock components. If i'm wrong, i'm sure someone will correct me.

From what I understand, alignment shops use the cam adjusters on the LCA to adjust caster but that's sort of a mystery to me how the caster is adjusted using the cam adjusters. The main problem, like was mentioned already, is the cam adjusters commonly get rusted into the sleeve of the bushing and then you can't adjust them anymore.

Here's my response I gave the OP on the other thread he posted on:

Here's what you do. Buy yourself some Whiteline polyurethane bushings and follow the video [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I made replacing the LCA bushing for [MENTION=142071]sunsetrunner[/MENTION]. Depending on your luck, one or more of your Control Arm Cams could be rusted in there and no amount of pounding is going to get them out. I'd have a reciprocating saw on hand with some fresh metal blades and have a couple of the Control Arm Cams in case you need to cut a couple out. If you want to play it real safe because you live in the rust belt of the country, I'd order 4 Control Arm Cams and just return the ones you don't end up using. Each cam adjusters has three parts: 1) Control Arm Cam 2) Control Arm Plate 3) Control Arm Bolt. You should be able to reuse the Control Arm Plate and Control Arm Bolt unless your rig is seriously compromised by rust. It's the cam that gets locked into the sleeve of the bushing due to corrosion.

We got lucky on [MENTION=142071]sunsetrunner[/MENTION] truck and all the cams came out without a fight. When [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION], [MENTION=144752]MarkamisPrime[/MENTION] and I worked together to replace worn LCA bushings for a member from Colorado traveling through California over the holidays, we weren't so lucky and had to cut out both the cams on the passenger side. If a cam needs to be cut out, you have to make a cut on both sides of the bushing so it will come out of the frame.

Here's the part number for the Control Arm Cams: #4840935050
$13.30/Each from Camelback Toyota

Here's the part number for the Whiteline Poly Bushings: #W53377A

Here's a link to a company you can buy the poly bushings from:
http://www.aftermarketsuspensionparts.com/w53377a

Here's the video, Enjoy the Show and Good Luck!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kmaZNBp1gZM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[phattyduck]

From what I understand, alignment shops use the cam adjusters on the LCA to adjust caster but that's sort of a mystery to me how the caster is adjusted using the cam adjusters.

The difference in the front and rear camber adjustment cams moves the lower ball joint forward or backward.

Moving both the same direction = camber change only
Moving both equal and opposite = caster change only

There are limits to the stock adjustment range, of course...

-Charlie

 

[mtbtim]

The difference in the front and rear camber adjustment cams moves the lower ball joint forward or backward.

Moving both the same direction = camber change only
Moving both equal and opposite = caster change only

There are limits to the stock adjustment range, of course...

-Charlie

I knew it was something like this but I still can't see how those adjustments move the control arm forward or backward. Maybe my mechanical brain isn't mechanical enough to understand. Then, when you screw with adjusting the Caster, you can throw off the Camber and vice versa.

Camber is easy to understand how it adjusts via the cam adjusters. Toe adjustment is easy to understand via the outer tie rods. Caster adjustment is confusing with the LCA cam adjusters. I'd have to see a tech doing it on an alignment rack to grasp it.

 

[JayRolla]

I knew it was something like this but I still can't see how those adjustments move the control arm forward or backward. Maybe my mechanical brain isn't mechanical enough to understand. Then, when you screw with adjusting the Caster, you can throw off the Camber and vice versa.

Camber is easy to understand how it adjusts via the cam adjusters. Toe adjustment is easy to understand via the outer tie rods. Caster adjustment is confusing with the LCA cam adjusters. I'd have to see a tech doing it on an alignment rack to grasp it.

When you move the cam adjuster it pushes one side of the LCA arm forward or back. This literally moves the tire forward or back a few inches changing caster. If they are maxed opposite ways you will get full forward caster and usually close to 0 camber.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

[MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] by moving the rear adjuster outward, the arm pivots on the front adjuster- moving the LBJ forward.
Does that make sense?

 

[mtbtim]

[MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] by moving the rear adjuster outward, the arm pivots on the front adjuster- moving the LBJ forward.
Does that make sense?

Yes, that helps me understand how it can move forward or backward. [MENTION=50342]JayRolla[/MENTION], thanks for your explanation as well.

I've messed with these cam adjusters two different times doing LCA bushings replacements for different dudes and I was able to get the camber adjustment pretty close to spec both times just by eyeballing it in my driveway. I was actually pretty close to spec on the caster adjustment as well, but I think that was total luck.

 

[MarkamisPrime]

Has anyone experienced this with this common set-up? I'm worried about tire wear and the looks of it. Is there enough adjustment to straighten it out?



I put this set up on a 2002 that had sag issues.



Please help!



Thanks.

I also responded on he other thread.
But if they don't give you before and after specs they didn't do your alignment and I wouldn't give them a dime.
And if they give you some BS excuse I would say. Well I'm here now so put it on the rack and just print out the after and if they did do your alignment then it should all be in the green and good to go without them having to make any additional adjustments.

I said this on the other thread....What [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] said
And post your alignment specs and I'll tell you what needs to be done to fix it. So you can tell the guy aligning it what needs to be done.
It's absolutely no different aligning a lifted, lowered, or stock vehicle. All you have to do I look at the screen and move the correct cam and or tie rod until the screen says your in the green.
Not very difficult.
But guys are lazy or just don't really understand what they are doing when they preform an alignment it sucks but that's the reality.
Just like when we did the LCA bushings for Kurt and he showed his specs, the lazy asses didn't even adjust camber because it was in the green. It was way off but it was in the green so they left it alone all they did was set caster to 3 degrees because he asked them to and then they set the toe and let it go. And people are paying sometimes $100+ for this cause your "lifted" its complete BS.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

[MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] it was likely close to spec, because- when our rigs are lifted- there is a pretty small window of acceptable caster/camber adjustment. What I mean by that is this: if you get camber out of the positive, both adjusters have to be most of the way out. With them most of the way out, there isn't much room to get good positive caster. Therefore, once you have your camber straight, your caster is gonna be pretty close to acceptable.

 

[mtbtim]

[MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] it was likely close to spec, because- when our rigs are lifted- there is a pretty small window of acceptable caster/camber adjustment. What I mean by that is this: if you get camber out of the positive, both adjusters have to be most of the way out. With them most of the way out, there isn't much room to get good positive caster. Therefore, once you have your camber straight, your caster is gonna be pretty close to acceptable.

Thanks for the explanation. I remember having to adjust them quite a ways out to correct the camber from being positive.

 

[IBallEngineer]

Yes, that helps me understand how it can move forward or backward. [MENTION=50342]JayRolla[/MENTION], thanks for your explanation as well.

I've messed with these cam adjusters two different times doing LCA bushings replacements for different dudes and I was able to get the camber adjustment pretty close to spec both times just by eyeballing it in my driveway. I was actually pretty close to spec on the caster adjustment as well, but I think that was total luck.

I smell a video, come on down to southern california. I'll provide a Wheel Alignment system and an alignment rack in a nice clean shop. You provide the video and editing. I'll buy lunch!

:bravo:

 

[mtbtim]

I smell a video, come on down to southern california. I'll provide a Wheel Alignment system and an alignment rack in a nice clean shop. You provide the video and editing. I'll buy lunch!

:bravo:

I don't get down to SoCal that often these days but I'll keep the invitation in mind if I ever head down there. It would make a cool video. Thanks!