PValorum's 97 Limited Work Log - Pictures and Words

[PrinceValorum]

Working on the timing belt job. So far it has gone smoothly overall (knock on wood). At this point I'm down to the block, all timing gear is removed. I got the new cam and crank seals in, after some weird issues, details here:
Cam shaft seal driving difficulties

Bumper off, this was waaaay easier with the engine hoist. It was not a fun time installing it without hydraulic assistance.

Wait, the paint is actually shiny? After having my 4runner for 6 years now, and only having just buffed it this year, it's super jarring to see it outside and see the paint reflecting things, lol

Engine bay is criminally dirty. This is the result of multiple years of oil sprays, daily driving, and not knowing how to clean an engine bay. This is also after multiple attempts at cleaning it after getting the new pressure washer. I foamed it 2-3 times with Dawn to cut the grease, and also ran Gunk degreaser in the pressure washer soap intake. The manual says it dilutes it to 20:1, so that might have been too much, because neither really did anything.

Sprayed down the bay with the Optimum Power Clean and let it sit for a few mins before gently pressure washing it off. I can't believe the results.

Buildup behind trans cooler

After

Also, if anyone was wondering if fluid film works, this is how it held up against bare metal over winter in Ohio. It's an absolute mess, but I'm sold.

Essential tools. I'm 100% a tool junkie.

Old rad out. Really glad I'm replacing this, it wasn't in great shape, and the metal mounts on the ends were about gone from rust.

I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get the bumper mounts off the end of the frame rails, and the radiator also fought super hard coming out. I totally forgot there was another bolt so far back on the frame holding them on. Also a shot of the giant CS144 alt and the oil filter relocate.

I was really happy to see an OEM timing belt from the last job. Seems like the original owner took care of the truck.

Miles of clearance with the rad out and the M12 1/2" impact. It did not have enough guts to pull the crank pulley bolt, but I also didn't sit there and hammer on it all day with it. Imo it feels far more abusive to do that to an electric impact than an air gun, haha

However the venerable IR 2135TiMAX also fits, and had no problem with the crank bolt. It just about spun it out.

Tool cart after the first day of work

 

[PrinceValorum]

It's weird seeing the engine bay so empty.

All new seals in, finally. I only ruined 2 cam seals. Fortunately the crank seal went in first try.

Old water pump off, and gasket surface cleaned up with a blue roloc disk. Unfortunately the design of the previous water pump had a groove in the middle of the sealing surface where the gasket material was, and it looks like some water was able to sit in there and pit the block. I didn't want to really dig in and get all of it out and end up scalloping the surface and compromising the potential for a seal even further. I opted to play it safe and order the Toyota TB1282B FIPG for coolant, and apply that to the metal gasket before reinstalling. I'd prefer to just do this job once.

In the meantime, I figured now would be a good a time as any to swap my front coils. They were filthy, like everything else underneath.

OPC and a quick blast cleaned them right up. I figured if I clean enough parts on the sidewalk eventually the entire sidewalk will end up clean, also.

When I initially installed the front coilovers, I didn't have a spring compressor that would fit with the small diameter coils, and just left the stock ones on. I thought I was going to have to take it to a shop and have them use their big wall mounted compressor to do this. I happened across these Shankly Spring Compressors on Amazon and figured I'd give them a shot. Despite the mixed reviews I figured they would work well in this limited capacity, just compressing the spring a half inch to take the pressure off the collar.

When I installed them, I planned to coat both threaded portions of the bodies with antiseize, and unfortunately forgot to do the driver's side. The passenger side collar moved super easily, but the driver side did not. I used the prybar at the top to keep it from rotating while I struck the collar wrench with a 3lb deadblow. It took a few blows, but thankfully did end up turning.

Unintentional comparison between Loctite LB 8023 Marine Grade Antiseize on the left, and uncoated on the right. I installed these in June of 2018, so they have seen 2.5 Ohio winters (didn't drive much this last winter), and were oil sprayed 2 out of 3 winters. I also sprayed fluid film and stuff on the uncoated side a few times after I remembered I forgot to coat them, so this is really kind of best case scenario for corrosion.

Super impressed with how the antiseize held up

Stock 13" 650lb coils on left, heavy 700lb 14" coils on right

These things look way beefier with the collar all the way up and a big spring in there. I made sure to coat the entire length of the threads with antiseize this time, lol

 

[Sarki]

Great read, thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

[PrinceValorum]

Great read, thanks for sharing your experiences.

Appreciate it, glad you enjoyed it!

 

[PrinceValorum]

I did it! I aced my summer classes, I got [almost] all the work done on the truck for the trip, and the trip was a success!

I got a ton of pics from the trip, and still have to go through them. The truck was great, no issues other than my AC dying part way through the trip (it was patched and finally gave out), I actually got some of my best MPGs ever, which is wild considering all of the anti-aerodynamic mods and extra weight on the trip, made memories, checked off a bucket list trip, etc, etc.

I plan to add more info/a trip report as time allows, but unfortunately the fall semester has already started.

Proof of the trip, there are actual mountains in the background!

 

[sleepydad]

I think...

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3646683-post14.html

thanks for this post.

I'm starting to think about this type of deal for my next mod.

I'm about 99.9% sure this requests wheel spacers as I think I see them on your truck. guessing 1.5" spacers right?

I have the front range offroad full floater rear that moves the wheel mounting surface out about 1.25" on each side so... thinking maybe this will clear without spacers.

just wondering if you encountered any rub or contact while trail riding? I would guess this is tight?

 

[PrinceValorum]

I'm about 99.9% sure this requests wheel spacers as I think I see them on your truck. guessing 1.5" spacers right?

I have the front range offroad full floater rear that moves the wheel mounting surface out about 1.25" on each side so... thinking maybe this will clear without spacers.

just wondering if you encountered any rub or contact while trail riding? I would guess this is tight?

Yes, I do have 1.5" spacers, but I also have the massive 2.5" shocks, so maybe they wouldn't require so much spacer with a smaller shock body. I've never seen rub marks, and I've never heard any rubbing noises from the rear. I still have the short/factory length sway bar links in the rear (a temporary fix that has turned semi-permanent), so I wouldn't be surprised if they're limiting max flex.

Since you got me wondering I went out and tested with the HiLift as far as I dared (the base was snug to the tire with the tire on the ground), and checked the clearance. I got a pic of what I could, I was not crawling under it like that, lol.

Large pic

 

[sleepydad]

Yes, I do have 1.5" spacers, but I also have
Since you got me wondering I went out and tested with the HiLift as far as I dared (the base was snug to the tire with the tire on the ground), and checked the clearance. I got a pic of what I could, I was not crawling under it like that, lol.

wow this is what I service! nice. I ordered the ford towers today and have a plasma robot so I should be able to customize it. I like this setup. it's pretty simple and clean. allows for stock setup to function and then when your ready to go full Monty it's ready.

 

[PrinceValorum]

I like this setup. it's pretty simple and clean. allows for stock setup to function and then when your ready to go full Monty it's ready.

For sure. I did it more out of not trusting the factory mounts, and not wanting to have them add their own speed holes to my undercarriage if the old mounts gave way. But between the pure beef of the F250 towers, not having to modify the axle mounts, and the potential for a crazy build down the road, it's hard to argue with.

 

[PrinceValorum]

Planned maint. before trip:

-<strike>Remove skids in prep for minor surgery</strike> done
-Timing belt and water pump, OEM parts ordered and arrived
-Replace radiator as preventive maint while I have the system apart
-Change over to red Toyota coolant at that time
-Motor mounts (figured now was as good a time as any while I have things apart about as much as they'll ever be)
-Trans mount
-Paint frame rail end caps while I have the bumper off for the timing belt
-Remove front coilovers and swap stock coils for heavier 700lb coils to account for added front weight
-Swap out driver side inner tie rod end (a friend had helped me diagnose this, and the shop also found it in the inspection), and also swap the outer TREs to OEM units since I had to grab them from OReilly's when I did the front end suspension and then the 'temporary' fix became permanent..
-Trim front fender liners and line with rubber/mudflaps to try to weather seal them. Super over-due, the tires have been rubbing for ages after the spacers. It's taking much longer to wear down than I anticipated, lol
-Install extended rear bump stops, ordered
-I'd like to get the Anderson disconnect installed for the winch while I have the bumper off. Another project that got put off
-Two more new Duratracs to match. Two are at 8/32 (after 50k miles) and aren't what they used to be in the snow, two are at 16/32 (had to replace two last year, one had an un-repairable puncture and decided to do a pair, since they were so worn. Had them throw the one that was still good on a spare wheel for the swingout.)
-Install fuel tank (hopefully!!)
-Reinstall skid plates
-Alignment after all of that work

Nothing to it but to do it, I guess.

Out of all this, I was able to get this done before the trip:

-<strike>Remove skids in prep for minor surgery done
-Timing belt and water pump, OEM parts ordered and arrived
-Replace radiator as preventive maint while I have the system apart
-Change over to red Toyota coolant at that time
-Motor mounts (figured now was as good a time as any while I have things apart about as much as they'll ever be)
-Trans mount
-Paint frame rail end caps while I have the bumper off for the timing belt
-Remove front coilovers and swap stock coils for heavier 700lb coils to account for added front weight
-Swap out driver side inner tie rod end (a friend had helped me diagnose this, and the shop also found it in the inspection), and also swap the outer TREs to OEM units since I had to grab them from OReilly's when I did the front end suspension and then the 'temporary' fix became permanent..
-Trim front fender liners and line with rubber/mudflaps to try to weather seal them. Super over-due, the tires have been rubbing for ages after the spacers. It's taking much longer to wear down than I anticipated, lol</strike>
-Install extended rear bump stops, ordered
-I'd like to get the Anderson disconnect installed for the winch while I have the bumper off. Another project that got put off
-<strike>Two more new Duratracs to match. Two are at 8/32 (after 50k miles) and aren't what they used to be in the snow, two are at 16/32 (had to replace two last year, one had an un-repairable puncture and decided to do a pair, since they were so worn. Had them throw the one that was still good on a spare wheel for the swingout.)</strike>
-Install fuel tank (hopefully!!)
-<strike>Reinstall skid plates
-Alignment after all of that work</strike>

Plus:

-Reupholstered driver's seat, replaced seat bottom and seat back foam, and added seat heaters
-Added a transmission thermostat and plumbed the external trans cooler in series with the trans cooler in the new rad, plus the Magnefine filter I had on there
-Installed Spiker Engineering dash phone mount
-Replaced oil cooler coolant lines
-Tightened rear drums to fix extended brake pedal travel
-Installed PIAA fogs in the front bumper with new laser yellow hellaJDMyo bulbs, and wired them in with a relay to the running lights
-New Optima red top starter battery (old one had a rough life and was essentially dead the last year+ and I'd been jumping it off the aux battery with the controller)
-Installed yellow tint on the light bar on the roof rack, a major priority naturally
-Updated steering rack guide to new style with the bushing instead of a roller

As such, it was an incredibly hectic two months, but I somehow got it all done, and everything I did ran flawlessly for the trip, much to my surprise, and relief.

The last week alone I had finals for the classes, had to get the truck driveable to get it aligned after the new tie rod ends (it wasn't far off, I used the trick of counting how many times you turn the old OTRE to remove it and spin the new one on the same number, and it was surprisingly close. Learned that from SMA on Youtube, Eric said it was a little trick his grandma taught him), got two new Duratracs installed (Goodyear does mobile install which I opted to try, so a cute lady showed up and installed my tires while I fooled around with my trans cooler lines, cursed myself for complicating my cooling system, and also my shoulders for being so gosh darn weak at holding up my arms while laying on the creeper), got the skid plates and bumper back on, and packed before the trip.

 

[PrinceValorum]

I sent in my first used oil sample to Blackstone Labs from the interval covering the trip. It had 5,609 odometer miles on it (approx. 5833 corrected for tire dia). During the trip I did have a relatively extended amount of driving above 4k rpms, considering my truck usually spends 0 time above 4k rpms. At 8-10k ft altitude, in the mountains, and fully loaded, there were many times that my truck was reduced to just two usable gears, and it would be at 4k rpms climbing or engine braking for 30-60 mins at a time. This obviously isn’t a significant portion of the overall interval, but I wanted to note it.

I was curious how clean or dirty the engine might be, since it seemed like it might have not had the best oil maintenance history, and years ago I did several short/3k mile intervals in an attempt to clean out any deposits before switching to full synthetic (and sprouting several new leaks, just as everyone warned, lol). I had read that was the preferred way to deal with deposits, rather than resorting to the miracles in a bottle at the sales counter. I noted this in the comments when submitting the sample.

Specs:
• 5 qts SuperTech 5W-30 High Mileage Full Synthetic (the finest Walmart has to offer)
• OEM oil filter
• 5,609 odo miles (est. 5,833 actual)
• No additives
• No make up oil added during interval

Report:

Your 4Runner looks great in this report. Wear metals are in line with universal averages for this type of engine, and those averages show typical wear after ~5,900 miles of oil use. That's almost how long you kept this oil in place and wear metals are close to average levels. That means there aren't any problems or signs of poor wear to note. That's good news for any engine with 232K+ miles on the odometer. Insolubles show good oil filtration at 0.2%, and the TBN is strong at 3.5. Try up to 7,500 miles next. Using a series of short runs is a good way to clean things up!

I’m very happy with these results, especially considering the price of this oil. Admittedly I was very hesitant to run “Walmart oil” in any of my vehicles, but test after test showed it to be a quality product. It’s always a lingering thought that they’ll suddenly change suppliers or something without warning, but until that happens, I’ll be extending my interval and running more of it!

 

[Wrecked - Rebuilt]

Really appreciate you taking the time to take this picture! I've been considering the OSR or F250 mounts. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like this would work for anything larger than a 9.5in wide tire, running 1.5in wheel spacers. I have to imagine my 11.8in wide tires with 1.25in spacers would rub on the 2.5in shock bodies.

I am curious to know how this setup rides though. Always looking to improve the ride, especially on my yearly drive from Michigan to Colorado/Utah. I currently have the basic Tokico LC shock on the rear (~9.3in travel) and Tundra 5100s on the front. Rear actually seems great, though the front has always been a bit of a disappointment.

 

[PrinceValorum]

Really appreciate you taking the time to take this picture! I've been considering the OSR or F250 mounts. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like this would work for anything larger than a 9.5in wide tire, running 1.5in wheel spacers. I have to imagine my 11.8in wide tires with 1.25in spacers would rub on the 2.5in shock bodies.

I'm assuming you're also running stock wheels so the offset wouldn't be a variable. I don't know anyone else with wider tires to test out the clearance for you, but I think your concerns are valid.

I am curious to know how this setup rides though. Always looking to improve the ride, especially on my yearly drive from Michigan to Colorado/Utah. I currently have the basic Tokico LC shock on the rear (~9.3in travel) and Tundra 5100s on the front. Rear actually seems great, though the front has always been a bit of a disappointment.

For some background perspective, I came from lowered cars where I liked a really stiff ride for ripping around on back country roads. I really appreciate nice suspension and was willing to spend more on it than I did on buying my truck, lol. Last fall I took my buddy, who has a fully track prepped supercharged Mini on racing coilovers, for a ride, and when I asked him what he thought of the ride he said it was surprisingly stiff. I think ultimately, I'd be happier with a more compliant suspension, even considering my preference for a stiffer suspension. My truck is also just over 5600lbs at trail weight, I can't imagine how it would ride at stock weight.

With that said, the suspension is exceedingly competent when the rebound damping is dialed in for the current weight. This was one of the main things I was looking for while researching suspension, because I knew I would be driving the truck over a relatively wide range of weights from DD to trail/camping loadout. The adjustments really do make a noticeable difference and being able to go down to full soft on the trail with aired down tires made it a pleasant experience. At the start of the trail with the damping around 5 (goes from 1-9 with 1 being full soft) and E load tires at 48 psi, it was not fun. As I found out on the highway, you can also make it perform like a hot mess if you forget to adjust just one corner back from trail settings. It was a fun exercise testing my own ability to assess the handling of the truck to determine which corner was set wrong, which I was able to do, but I wouldn’t recommend anyone do this as a prank.

What's interesting (to me anyway) about this suspension is the faster you go and the harder you push it on the road, the better I feel it performs. Unfortunately, this is at odds with how I prefer to drive the truck, and while hustling it along twisty back roads at 55 does make it shine, it also feels needlessly reckless. At the same time, the fact that I can even do that in the first place is a testament to the performance. In the twisties I easily left my buddy behind in his 4th gen on FJ suspension, and he had to call me on the radio because I was out of sight. It’s relative: it handles really well for a lifted truck, but obviously it’s no Miata.

This page has more information about how the digressive valving in the Icons impacts their characteristics, but this is the summary "Digressive shocks are bad at small bumps and large bumps, but good at handling and g-outs.": Digressive vs Linear vs Progressive Pistons & Shock Valving - AccuTune Off-Road

High speed:
I find this suspension excellent on the highway, and not at all fatiguing to drive for extended periods. It's very confidence inspiring and isn't twitchy or erratic. Hitting large “highway whoops” where you nearly become weightless are so much fun, and always bring a smile to my face. The suspension compresses and comes back up to ride height and there is zero drama. No over shooting and bouncing up and down. Just down, and back up, super controlled. It makes the truck feel like a million dollars.

Low speed:
It's borderline jarring around town, especially during winter when the roads are heaved and all the potholes have been ripped open by plow trucks. Sections of road that look like they’ve been carpet bombed make me feel like I’m really abusing the truck. As many other have mentioned, the nose squat under heavy braking is greatly reduced, which is very nice.

In conclusion I don't regret buying this suspension, but I think I'd be hesitant to recommend it to someone who didn't know exactly what they wanted. I would definitely be interested in driving someone’s truck with King suspension, and even without having experienced it, I would probably try out King or another high-end option on a future build (out of curiosity, not desperation). From comments I’ve read, it seems like a lot prefer Kings for daily use, but I think the Icons are as close as you can get to giving the 4runner “sports car” handling while also improving its offroad prowess.

 

[PrinceValorum]

After writing all that, I really paid attention on my hour drive home, and these are my thoughts.

Under 25 mph: It feels like there are hockey pucks between the coils. It doesn’t really feel like the suspension is doing much because it’s so harsh. My E load tires probably play into this. Changes in attitude really aren’t absorbed and over uneven terrain (dislodged concrete street pieces), the truck can pitch noticeably. Feeling: harsh, jarring. Interior noise (panels rattling, cargo shifting, etc): considerable NVH

Above 30: This is the first time the suspension starts to feel like it’s doing something. You start to notice it’s doing some work. Still very stiff, noticeable amounts of interior NVH

Above 40: Depending on the profile of impacts, it can feel harsh, or start to have hints of refinement (has to do with how abrupt the input to the tires is)

Above 50: This is when it feels like it really starts to open up and hits its stride, so to speak. Feeling: taut. Interior noise: no longer drew my attention to it

Above 60: I normally set my cruise at 68, and anywhere above 60 it just feels so good. To describe it subjectively, it feels incredibly athletic. It’s so composed, so confident, and it gives me the impression that nothing on public roads at these speeds could upset the truck and suspension. Without intentionally waxing lyrical, the composure sailing over bumps and gaps through concrete interchanges kept giving me the mental picture of a cheetah running in slow motion.

To describe it more objectively, when dialed in on the highway, to me it feels like the curves somewhere between zeta = 1 and 0.75, basically critically damped to slightly under damped depending on the size of the bump (a bigger bump needing more damping). When I had all the camping gear in and hadn’t stiffened up the rear, the rear felt like zeta = 0.5 while the front still felt critically damped and resulted in a bit of a boat like feeling where the nose would ride high, and the rear would take a sec to settle down after being upset. I dialed up the rear one click and it was right back to where it was before adding the weight. For comparison, the blown-out stock suspension was when zeta = 0.1, nearly undamped, and when hitting expansion gaps around curves especially, the truck was all over the place, and felt terrifying.

At the expense of sounding incredibly snooty, I think the performance of this suspension would be lost on someone who isn’t an enthusiast. I also think the adjustable damping is what really makes this kit, because I think I would be far less satisfied if I wasn’t able to get it dialed in the way I have. As far as whether you should go all the way to get the adjustments, I’d say it’s one of those things where if you have to ask whether or not you should get it, it’s probably not for you.

More than once over the years, I’ve found myself a bit unhappy with the ride quality around town, but above 50mph it holds up to intense scrutiny, which is a trait I find very rare across all products/tools. Instead of noticing more flaws while closely paying attention to it, it continues to impress me. On top of being extremely competent on pavement, it also excels off road, though I think it’s more road-biased due to the speeds involve. Unfortunately, the price reflects it, as you’d expect.

I think this suspension is a large part of why I enjoy driving my truck as much as I do, as it’s my DD. If I wasn’t commuting 2 hours per day and just drove it on trails or off road 2 weekends a month, I think it would be a much harder sell to go for this suspension. But on a DD/overland rig where you’re potentially traveling thousands of miles on road to get to where you’re going, I think it’s worth considering, especially if you value the traits I’ve no doubt beaten to death by now.

TL;DR: If you’re not a suspension snob or mainly drive your truck off road/don’t put a ton of miles on it, save yourself some money. If you want to have most of your cake and eat it too, and the price hasn’t scared you off, Icons might be for you.

 

[phattyduck]

I think this suspension is a large part of why I enjoy driving my truck as much as I do, as it’s my DD.

Sounds like you like digressive shocks...

Digressive vs Linear vs Progressive Pistons & Shock Valving - AccuTune Off-Road

(I'm generally in the same camp - I LOVED the PSS9's on my WRX, and I have 5100's on my 4Runner as a low-buck solution)

-Charlie

 

[PrinceValorum]

Sounds like you like digressive shocks...

Digressive vs Linear vs Progressive Pistons & Shock Valving - AccuTune Off-Road

Yes, so many words to say the same, I suppose, lol. I realize it's a wall of text, but I linked that article as well in the first post as well. Great minds or something?



Apologies if anyone has found the previous posts confusing. I realize in the first I leaned one way while relying on memory, and then leaned the other after a fresh experience. It's interesting (to me anyway) how we can filter our own experiences and memories to try to fit them to our preconceived notions. Something something cognitive biases.