Question about Stability/Traction Control

[Q-V]

This last winter, I experienced a couple of disturbing incidents while driving my 2005 4runner (4WD with Revos). They occurred in moderately snowy conditions (at low speed ~30 mph) where I *gently* attempted a single lane change to the right and the vehicle persisted to keep going right and I was forced to go into the next lane over.

I would attempt to get back into the correct lane, but the 4runner refused to respond to corrective steering. It's as if there was no power when I tried to ease left and it was sheer luck that I didn't get into an accident.

Am I correct in assuming that this the stability control system at work? Most of the time it seems to do a decent job, but I'm actually starting to dread driving this thing in snow. In fact, every time I do a lane change in slippery conditions, the handling feels squirrelly. My old Jeep TJ never seemed to fight me in this way.

Am I just driving this thing wrong or is the stability control system this bad?

 

[dcampen]

Am I correct in assuming that this the stability control system at work?

I don't think that the problem is with the VSC. For one thing, when the VSC becomes active you will hear it beeping at you.

 

[Good Times]

Doubt it's the traction control as that thing is very audible when it kicks in.

I would think it's either too much speed (I don't know as I don't see much snow here) or not enough traction on the tires with the snow. Not sure how well Revo's are on the snow but that could be it. Anothing is that you have a 2wd system so that's anothing thing to consider.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[Falls]

When the road's are snow covered here I losk the center diff. adn that way I can play around a little and feel I have more control. When it's rain or patchy snow I let the truck do it's thing with all the electronics stuff .

 

[Q-V]

I don't think that the problem is with the VSC. For one thing, when the VSC becomes active you will hear it beeping at you.

I remember the beeping the first time. I can't remember the second time - I was heading straight for a divider and was pre-occupied with not crashing.

I would think it's either too much speed (I don't know as I don't see much snow here) or not enough traction on the tires with the snow. Not sure how well Revo's are on the snow but that could be it. Anothing is that you have a 2wd system so that's anothing thing to consider.

I was driving quite cautiously during both incidents. I was in 4WD and I was definitely going slower than most of the cars around me. In fact, it ticks me off that I paid for all this fancy technology/tires and senior citizens in Neons are blowing past me.

On the topic of tires, the Revos are WAY better than the original Dunlops, but in snow, I think the Goodyears on my old Jeep were a bit better.

When the road's are snow covered here I losk the center diff. adn that way I can play around a little and feel I have more control.

The driver's manual gave me the impression that this feature was only for really nasty conditions (eg stuck in a ditch), but I'll definitely try this next time I find myself in slippery snow conditions. Apparently, it has the added benefit of disabling VSC, so it looks like the 4Runner's VSC becomes a liability after a certain point. It's just too bad that there isn't a button that simply disables the VSC. Either that or Toyota needs to further refine this technology.

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[MicaBlue03]

Q-V, as far as I know you're the first to experience this. Lots of us have posted our experiences with the traction/stability control in a wide variety of conditions and I haven't seen anything like this.

One of the inputs to the system is a sensor on the steering wheel to tell it which way you want to go. Along with the yaw sensor (under the center console) the system uses that to get you in the direction you're pointing.

The main complaint about the traction & stability control (other than a desire for a button to specifically turn them off) is that they're pretty conservative.

I'd suggest you check in with your dealer to see if there are any problems. Maybe the system has thrown a trouble code. Maybe you've got an indicator light burned out.

Otherwise I'd suggest you take advantage of any snowy or slick weather and a parking lot to experiment. Could it be that after changing lanes you were so cautious about quick steering inputs that you didn't crank the wheel enough to stop the lane change? Doesn't seem likely, but I can't think of anything else but a broken system.

In general the 4th generation 4Runners have been very well-behaved in slick conditions and very predictable, if a little boring or conservative.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[Falls]

Q-V , that's BS . Every truck I've had you can lock it in to a 50/50 split front & rear , they probably say that ( although I never read that) so people don't put it in center diff. lock on dry pavement. With today's amount of 4x4's on the road they almost have to do that because most people don't have clue on how to use 4wd.

I perfect example was when the Ford Explorer came out with the push button auto locking hub's and all these people who did'nt know jack about 4wd's bought them. They would get stuck or rear wheel spin and hit the 4x4 button and litterally tearing the front axle's right out of them.

Hense the reason the current system's came into play like on the 4R , the 4wd auto modes,or all wheel drives vehicles.

 

[Northof49]

Maybe you were hitting sluch or built up snow between the lanes.

There's no tricks to drving a 4Runner in the snow....pretty much point and shoot. The only variables that can make it dangerous are the tires and driver.

 

[AlexJet]

I think I know what you are talking about. Here in Canada where snow is for 4 month on the road, 4Runners system is actually putting in a test. I

 

[MicaBlue03]

Beeping and steering wheel position sensor

When the stability control is operating you'll see the yellow indicator on the dash flashing, any beeping you might hear is significant. The beeping is telling you that (perhaps despite the efforts of the stability control) the system has detected a significant difference between where you're pointing (indicated to it by the steering wheel position sensor) and the direction you're traveling (indicated by the yaw sensor).

Normally the stability control keeps these differences small enough and there is no beeping, just the yellow indicator on the dash.

It's a loud beep--you'd usually remember it if you heard it (I did!). The way to provoke this is to get on a slick surface and turn the wheel rapidly from side to side, faster than the system can re-point the vehicle.

Does this shed any light Q-V?

 

[Koz]

I think what happened was exactly what the VSC is designed to do. When you were changing lanes the vehicle's VSC sensed the rear coming around (before it happened) and took control of your vehicle. I've been in the same situation (driving slow in snow changing lanes) in a vehicle without VSC and ended up almost spinning.

Koz

 

[Q-V]

There's apparently not too many complaints about the VSC, but I found some on Edmund's website and this forum.

For example:
http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/105288/article.html
http://toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?postid=68588

For the most part, I've been happy with the VSC. In fact, before I bought my Revos, the VSC activated quite often in slippery corners and it did a good job of keeping the 4Runner straight. However when I got caught between lanes, it felt like the system was actively fighting the corrective action. If I'm understanding the comments correctly, the problem is that the VSC didn't care what lane I was in - it just wanted to keep the 4Runner *straight*. Unfortunately it almost put me *straight* into a metal barrier. There are times when you need to power out of bad situations and in these cases, I think the VSC can be dangerous.

 

[rook]

I think what happened was exactly what the VSC is designed to do. When you were changing lanes the vehicle's VSC sensed the rear coming around (before it happened) and took control of your vehicle. I've been in the same situation (driving slow in snow changing lanes) in a vehicle without VSC and ended up almost spinning.

Koz

Well stated, Koz

It took some getting used to the new systems behavior to realize it was, in fact eliminating rear end step out. It was particularly evident during lane changes and turns at intersections.

With the center diff locked the truck feels like the "old style" 4x4. The driver can feel the truck pushing and skidding, and adjust with steering and throttle. However, once control is lost with the diff locked it is difficult to recover.

 

[mjweber96]

Sounds like yo either lost traction or maybe got caught up in a rut and it just pulled the truck along with it. Was the snow deep and had it warmed up and then re-froze again? When I used to do snow plowing that would always happen to me. The truck would catch a rut and you couldn't do a thing about it till you regained traction.

 

[Falls]

The VSC can be a good and bad thing, depending on what you like or dislike. Hitting those rut's from other vehicle's on snow covered roads can be pretty hard to control,that's where this system shine's. I just wish there were switches to turn those off if you wanted.

I agree with all said except for driving on-road with center diff. locked ( which I've done ) As long as the road is snow COVERED and the tire's can give it work's just like any other 4wd truck. You would'nt want to drive any 4wd truck (locked in ) on a paved dry road, same goes for the runner. If you think about what they say about only using the center lock to get out of a ditch, I personally would be using lo-lock and the center diff. lock since the torque is much better and you can crawl up and out.

The salesman told me the same thing that you read. When I talked to one of the service tech's. & then to the service mgr. to get 2 different opinions. They asked if I was familiar with 4wd's before and when to use and not use the 4wd locked in , I said yes , very familiar with 4x4's and they said don't worry about it , do what you need to.

So many 4x4 truck's and Suv, ect... out there and many people have not a clue how they work or how to drive them in snow condition's and that's why they make the new system's the way they do.

 

[Koz]

There's apparently not too many complaints about the VSC, but I found some on Edmund's website and this forum.

The complaints that I've seen on this site are basically the same as this one, where the system took over and being new to this system, that person felt something was wrong. It's just like when ABS is first used on ice and the person can't understand why the vehicle will not stop. Sometimes it is not just one system, it is several and that even is more confusing. My suggestion is to find a safe place when there is snow or water on the ground and experiment with the system and get familiar with them. I have found that these systems work better then any human can.

You definitely do NOT what to disengage the VSC by locking the center diff when driving in bad weather. You would use the center lock when stuck or off-roading.

Koz

 

[Iowa4Runner]

I have mixed feelings about the VSC. 99.99% of the time I know when there's a traction issue to be dealt with and the beeping is nothing but an annoyance. Many times I've had my 4Runner sliding around (usually on purpose) and the VSC doesn't do anything until the thing is WAY out of shape. A few times I could see that it helped me get the vehicle "back under control" so it can be helpful, especially to this who aren't comfortable driving in snow and ice. Like Koz said, locking the center diff and disabling the VSC is definitely not for normal driving in slippery conditions.