Question unworthy of serious consideration, asking anyway.

Train a monkey to work the wiper blades for you, and plasti dip the wiper stalk so you can't see the image anymore. If there is one thing I've learned from t4r.org it is that 90% of the things that are "stock" on a 4runner can be improved with plasti dip. The remaining 10% require monkeys. :biggrin1:
 

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Never call a Baboon a monkey. They will __ck your car up man. :-)

Baboons are scary as heck...and big! Having a baboon notice you and start to approach you is frighting. I darted back to the safari van (when I was in Kenya) and we took off.

(the photo is not mine I found that online)
 
Right, well stated [MENTION=129606]Knight-Errant[/MENTION], and you had me convinced for a minute that the way it is set up now is accurate. But in thinking further about your rev counter analysis, and the fan comparison, you have identified the crux of the issue. When you are looking for the proper intermittent wiper speed, you are not primarily concerned with the speed of the wipers per se, you are concerned with the amount of time between swipes. In fact the actual time it takes for the wipers to cross the windshield each time they are activated is the same each time. So, unlike rev counters, the primary purpose of the intermittent wiper graph is not to represent speed, it is to represent time! In other words, with intermittent wipers, a clock that shows a time that gets larger as the time between wiper swipes increases is the best way of telling you the information you want to know. Specifically, assume for example you are dealing with a very light mist, and you want a long period of time between wiper swipes. So, you look down at your intermittent wiper dial, and what do you want that graphic to tell you? You want it to tell you, which setting is going to give me the longest period of time between wiper swipes? It is counter-intuitive under these circumstances to choose the smallest part of the graph!

I understand what you're saying but people mostly think "i need more wipes to occur over a period of time" or " I need fewer wipes to occur over a period of time" and that syncs up with how most things are commonly measured quantity/time, occurrence/time, distance/time. Since engineers (not philosophers or English majors) design car components, and since the way people think is, by in large, in line with the way the engineers think, you have the image that is on the stalk.

People usually don't think "I need less time to occur between wipes" rather they think "I want a higher volume of wipes." It is the same "concept or idea", just expressed and viewed differently, but as I mentioned for most intents and purposes things are measures in X/time. People want their wipers to be "faster" but this is, in a sense, a sloppy or imprecise use of language since they just want more wipes (or less time between wipes), they don't actually want the speed of the wiper across the windshield to increase.

You're reasoning isn't "wrong", it is just unconventional in the realm that we're examining and how people generally think....you're marching to a different your own drum is what I'm saying (and that's ok, but it means you're going to be frustrated by the image). The image doesn't have to make sense to all people, it just has to make sense to the majority of people. The average person is going to think "more wipes" when the image on the stalk is thick, instead of "more time between wipes."

Basically your struggle is between the use of language (the definition of "intermittent) and how technical individuals (and most of the public) measure things and then convert that measurement to an easily discernible image that will represent the concept. "Intermittent" is defined as "marked by intervals of complete quietude occurring between two periods of activity", and you believe the image should chart the "interval of quietude". Even though there is indeed a period of "quietude", most people are concerned with "the number of wipes occurring" and we tend to measure things as the number of "Xs" over a period of time, and this contradiction is what you're disagreeing with.

On the most basic level, the image has to "make sense" to a person who isn't familiar with the term "intermittent wiper". Most people are going to think "more wipes" or "faster" with they see the thick line. They have to figure out what the image means without knowing the name. If you see "ATRAC" on a button in a 4runner for the first time, you have no idea what the means without reading the manual, but you know "red" is hot and "blue" is cold for temperature controls, "thin" means less "thick" means more, a window image lets you know the button operates the power windows, etc. The "thick=more time between wipes" concept is a bit abstract and not intuitive. Intuitive is what car interior designers strive for (although they are not always successful).

As an aside, the time the wiper takes to complete a wipe can be varied (or does vary depending on the setting) for certain car models (i'm speaking of the the speed of the wiper blade as it goes across the windshield, or the speed to complete a wipe cycle rather than the speed between wipe cycles)...further complicating the analysis.
 
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[MENTION=129606]Knight-Errant[/MENTION] you just blew my mind.

...and you have too much time on your hands, go drive your truck!
 
... They have to figure out what the image means without knowing the name. If you see "ATRAC" on a button in a 4runner for the first time, you have no idea what the means without reading the manual, but you know "red" is hot and "blue" is cold for temperature controls, "thin" means less "thick" means more, a window image lets you know the button operates the power windows, etc. The "thick=more time between wipes" concept is a bit abstract and not intuitive. Intuitive is what car interior designers strive for (although they are not always successful).
...

[MENTION=129606]Knight-Errant[/MENTION] I don't disagree with anything you've written, but I would like to add that for most people, adjustments to the wipers will quickly become an automatic, not a controlled process. You won't look at the markings or think about intermittence at all -- just engage an automatic process from wanting an outcome to arm-finger movement. When asked, most owners will not be able to tell you which way to rotate the control, or which direction to move the stem control. But they'll do it correctly. Just like sitting down at a keyboard. It's easy to type out the word QUICK, but if someone were to ask you "What letter is to the left of "I" on a QWERTY keyboard, you'd have to stop and think.

All in all, however, kudos for the answer. Next, please work on my question: Why is it all restaurant employees are required - by law - to wash their hands after using the toilet, but customers at a buffet are not?
 
Regardless of the philosophy of "wider means faster" versus "wider means a greater time if intermittence," I can personally vouch that after owning a 2003 Tacoma and a 2004 4Runner, my 2016 4Runner wiper speed control is backwards from the way it was on my previous trucks. It drives me crazy.

On a side note, it also drives me crazy that the S-mode of the transmission requires you to push forward to shift up instead of pulling backward to shift up (sorta like rowing from 1st to 2nd gear in a manual). Mazdas are the only cars I've driven that get this right.
 
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Because customers don't want to be told what to do or how to eat. That's also why those places use serving utinsils.


As for the wiper setting. I have always thought the bar should be reversed as well. When I use the intermittent wiper setting I think of it as time between swipes to allow enough water to cover the windshield before the next swipe. To me intermittent is about the pause, not the speed.
 
[MENTION=129606]Knight-Errant[/MENTION] I don't disagree with anything you've written, but I would like to add that for most people, adjustments to the wipers will quickly become an automatic, not a controlled process.

I agree with you 100%. You only need to look at the symbol a few times and operate the controls, and after that you just know how to operate your car or truck. :)
 
Another slight detail. You pull the stalk downward to turn on and increase the speed of the wipers, but the dial to "increase the speed" of the intermittent setting rotates upward.

Some stalks are labeled "INT TIME" suggesting the dial is for the length of delay. I've also seen posts on other forums that indicate some models of Toyotas have had the dial indicate length of delay rather than speed as recently as '07.
 
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As an aside, the time the wiper takes to complete a wipe can be varied (or does vary depending on the setting) for certain car models (i'm speaking of the the speed of the wiper blade as it goes across the windshield, or the speed to complete a wipe cycle rather than the speed between wipe cycles)...further complicating the analysis.

Great response [MENTION=94073]knight[/MENTION]-errrant, you are right, it is a matter of perspective and expectations so Toyota has to choose one. If we factor in varying speeds of the wiper blade as it goes across the windshield the consideration could really get deep!

Maybe I will create a replacement sticker with the opposite graph and offer it on the forum for backwards thinkers like me, ha
 
Great response [MENTION=94073]knight[/MENTION]-errrant, you are right, it is a matter of perspective and expectations so Toyota has to choose one. If we factor in varying speeds of the wiper blade as it goes across the windshield the consideration could really get deep!

Maybe I will create a replacement sticker with the opposite graph and offer it on the forum for backwards thinkers like me, ha

What do you do for a living? I ask so in the future we will know how to answer your questions lol.
 
Great response [MENTION=94073]knight[/MENTION]-errrant, you are right, it is a matter of perspective and expectations so Toyota has to choose one. If we factor in varying speeds of the wiper blade as it goes across the windshield the consideration could really get deep!

Maybe I will create a replacement sticker with the opposite graph and offer it on the forum for backwards thinkers like me, ha

It seems like there are plenty of people who agree with you. Those T4R.org decals sell pretty well, maybe intermittent wiper stickers will be the next big thing.:)
 
This initially confused me too. I then began looking at it from a "How hard is it raining" perspective, and I haven't gotten it wrong since :)

Skinny line = light rain (less frequent wipes).
Thick Line = heavier rain (more frequent wipes).

As you were :cool:
 
Skinny line = light rain (less frequent wipes).
Thick Line = heavier rain (more frequent wipes).

As you were :cool:

I still have to think about it a lot harder than I would like to admit, but this little trick may help the hamster on a wheel in my skull process it faster. Thank you.
 
IIRC my 3rd gen was the opposite of what it is now, as when I used this function for the first time in my 5th gen I distinctly remember thinking to myself, WTF is wrong with this thing, double take, oh its now backwards...
 
Think higher frequency, not longer interval. Semantics....

After years of working at the dealership I never figured this out until i got my runner...SMH
 

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