Replacement heads

[vagrant318]

Well latest update is the eBay head I bought is cracked.. So I guess Ill be having it towed back to my house and either attempt to repair it or sell it for whatever I can get I guess.
Ive done engine work on motorcycles before but I tend to be really bad when it comes to trying to drill and tap. I dont have the patience to go slow enough and mess things up..
It will definitely be worth attempting to repair myself though I think but I have no idea which of those kits I would need?

 

[RandyBobandy]

The good news is if you try to fix it and permanently damage the engine I’ll give you $200 for the whole rig if you’re within 4 hours of me

 

[vagrant318]

The good news is if you try to fix it and permanently damage the engine I’ll give you $200 for the whole rig if you’re within 4 hours of me

Well Im definitely not within 4 hours of you..

 

[diverscale]

Well latest update is the eBay head I bought is cracked.. So I guess Ill be having it towed back to my house and either attempt to repair it or sell it for whatever I can get I guess.
Ive done engine work on motorcycles before but I tend to be really bad when it comes to trying to drill and tap. I dont have the patience to go slow enough and mess things up..
It will definitely be worth attempting to repair myself though I think but I have no idea which of those kits I would need?

please try and take your time, and save that 4runner of yours.

It really isn't that hard of a job, just need to take your time, as you claim you have difficulty doing. But good news is, you'll just need to take it slow and steady for the time you drill the hole, and the time you tap the hole, and luckily, these are pretty quick to do.

I have not watched MTbtim video and it is for sure much more quality content that I can give by writing in here, but for drilling aluminium, you'll need higher RPM, so don't use a slow 500 RPM drill/setting. You'll need to insure straight drilling, which you could pretty much achieve using another person's point of view, which will be located 90 degree from you. Both of you need to agree you are straight.

Also, you have to find a way to remove the chips that will get into the cylinder, which you could achieve using some automotive small vaccuum hose taped to a shop-vac's cleaning end.

I don't think an helicoil could work, as there is a ''back end'' rod in an helicoil which you use to thread the helicoil in, that will prevent your spark plug from going through (at least the helicoils I have used).

There spark plug thread repair kits available, for example (didn't look at it, it is just for the sake of pointing that it exists) amazon thread repair kit.

As for forum activity, here there is still much more quality content compared many other modern truck forums. There is the fact that pretty much every question and problem is already answered over the years, so many opt for reading an old thread instead of creating a new one.

wish you luck.

 

[mtbtim]

Well latest update is the eBay head I bought is cracked.. So I guess Ill be having it towed back to my house and either attempt to repair it or sell it for whatever I can get I guess.
Ive done engine work on motorcycles before but I tend to be really bad when it comes to trying to drill and tap. I dont have the patience to go slow enough and mess things up..
It will definitely be worth attempting to repair myself though I think but I have no idea which of those kits I would need?

In the video I linked on Page 1 of this thread, if you open the video description, I have a link to the helicoil kit I used.

Dude, like we've said ad nauseam, you have nothing to lose. If you're considering junking the truck over this, at least give it a shot before junking the whole rig. Sounds like you need a confidence booster. Maybe watch some Tony Robbins videos on YouTube to boost your confidence. If you still can't muster up the courage to give it a go, get a friend or relative to help you out.

 

[diverscale]

mtbtim's trick of using compressed air on the compression stroke is one hell of a good idea. Always used a vaccuum with some hoses, never though of that.

hope the op have a look at the video and gets his shit together and save a whole bunch of $$$ and time, and saves a great truck from pretty "minor" damage.

And as always, mtbtim'S video are just fun to watch in addition of being great references.

 

[vagrant318]

In the video I linked on Page 1 of this thread, if you open the video description, I have a link to the helicoil kit I used.

Dude, like we've said ad nauseam, you have nothing to lose. If you're considering junking the truck over this, at least give it a shot before junking the whole rig. Sounds like you need a confidence booster. Maybe watch some Tony Robbins videos on YouTube to boost your confidence. If you still can't muster up the courage to give it a go, get a friend or relative to help you out.

Obviously you didn't catch what I said about my cylinder- this isn't slightly damaged threads like in your video. It's severely damaged threads buggered out to the point where a shop couldn't get a 5/8" tap in there. I would need something oversized but the timesert kits, some of them are 500$. I'm not about just throwing money away especially on something a professional shop told me they wouldn't do although it is a fix they do perform on threads that are not as damaged as mine.
What I'm saying is I need to know what I need prior to buying a 500$ kit, because I still haven't seen it myself. .
I first need to get the truck back home and bear in mind it's December and not everyone lives in Socal.
I'm thinking on shit as I'm typing... The money and time is what I have to lose but but yeah hopefully I can maybe just maybe be able muster up enough courage to try it but maybe pay some people to tell me I'm good enough and I matter while I completely **** up drilling out the threads lol.
I'll get some pics up when I get the truck home

 

[vagrant318]

This was the sad day. A little history on the truck: I bought it in Wisconsin back in around 2013/2014 with 125k miles. The dealership disguised the rust very well, bastards. Drove it to Colorado in the first month of ownership, no problem. It pulled a pink milkshake the second or third winter I had it which eventually resulted in replacing the tranny, external cooler. Then towed a big U-Haul trailer to Washington back in 2018 where the truck died in North Dakota in -20 degrees the gas gauge froze up on half so ran out. Got hit in the passenger side in Portland where there's some bizarre right lane that looks like a shoulder. The motor ate a spark plug electrode sometime around then as well. It's taken a couple new exhausts, new starter motor, rear shocks and the radiator to now where it's at 182k miles.

 

[mtbtim]

Obviously you didn't catch what I said about my cylinder- this isn't slightly damaged threads like in your video. It's severely damaged threads buggered out to the point where a shop couldn't get a 5/8" tap in there. I would need something oversized but the timesert kits, some of them are 500$. I'm not about just throwing money away especially on something a professional shop told me they wouldn't do although it is a fix they do perform on threads that are not as damaged as mine.
What I'm saying is I need to know what I need prior to buying a 500$ kit, because I still haven't seen it myself. .
I first need to get the truck back home and bear in mind it's December and not everyone lives in Socal.
I'm thinking on shit as I'm typing... The money and time is what I have to lose but but yeah hopefully I can maybe just maybe be able muster up enough courage to try it but maybe pay some people to tell me I'm good enough and I matter while I completely **** up drilling out the threads lol.
I'll get some pics up when I get the truck home

I understood what you said but what the shop told you makes zero sense to me. I don't understand how the hole could be that messed up that you couldn't retap it to a LARGER thread size and fix it with a helicoil. Once the threads give way and the spark plug blows out, that's it, the damage is done.

If it were me, I'd want to try it myself and not take the shops word for it. The heiicoil kit I used cost me $30.

 

[vagrant318]

I understood what you said but what the shop told you makes zero sense to me. I don't understand how the hole could be that messed up that you couldn't retap it to a LARGER thread size and fix it with a helicoil. Once the threads give way and the spark plug blows out, that's it, the damage is done.

If it were me, I'd want to try it myself and not take the shops word for it. The heiicoil kit I used cost me $30.

I really don't understand it either, just tried to take them at face value. Assumed there must be some aspect of it I wasn't understanding but clearly these shops must fear some sort of liability with the fix or something I don't know. In my mind whatever the diameter of the damage (it can only be so large) drill, retap and an insert to fit? Pretty simple right? If I can get the correct size absolutely I'll do it myself, just baffles me a shop won't just do it.. I won't hesitate to try a fix below a couple hundred dollars

 

[19963.4lsr5]

The cylinder that ate the spark plug electrode…….was that the cylinder that blew out the spark plug?


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[vagrant318]

The cylinder that ate the spark plug electrode…….was that the cylinder that blew out the spark plug?


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Im pretty sure that was drivers side and this is passenger side but I didn't document it. Figured the electrode just went through the exhaust valve with no ill effect. If it was the same you think it could be related somehow?

 

[mtbtim]

I really don't understand it either, just tried to take them at face value. Assumed there must be some aspect of it I wasn't understanding but clearly these shops must fear some sort of liability with the fix or something I don't know. In my mind whatever the diameter of the damage (it can only be so large) drill, retap and an insert to fit? Pretty simple right? If I can get the correct size absolutely I'll do it myself, just baffles me a shop won't just do it.. I won't hesitate to try a fix below a couple hundred dollars

Well, what I'm telling you is don't take their word for it. Buy the $30 kit and give it a shot. I was remembering wrong about the process. I said drilling was necessary but I was wrong. All you have to do is use the tap that comes with the kit. Smear grease on the tap to help collect the shaving while you're tapping the hole. Turn it a few turns, take it out, wipe off the collected shavings, reapply grease to the tap and start tapping the threads some more. If you do it gradually like this, you will limit the amount of metal shavings that enters the cylinder.

When you get the kit and you find the tap won't work because the hole is indeed too damaged, you could just send it back to Amazon for a full refund.

The helicoil is going to be the most affordable and easy way to fix your head.

*Heli-Coil Multi Helicoil 5334-14 Save Thread Repair Kit M14 x 1.25
Amazon.com: Helicoil 5334-14 Save-A-Thread Thread Repair Kit M14 x 1.25 : Automotive

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Im pretty sure that was drivers side and this is passenger side but I didn't document it. Figured the electrode just went through the exhaust valve with no ill effect. If it was the same you think it could be related somehow?

Sparkplugs generally do not fall apart sans a China knockoff.

Detonation will wreck a plug if it’s prolonged. Toyota does a poor job of watching it and only cares about it at higher RPMs. It also does poor at detecting misfires.

Add to it we only have one O2 sensor minding both cylinder banks. So if a injector starts clogging it ends up richening up the entire engine to make up for the lean mixture coming out of that one cylinder.

That still lean mixture could be causing detonation as an example.


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[vagrant318]

Sparkplugs generally do not fall apart sans a China knockoff.

Detonation will wreck a plug if it’s prolonged. Toyota does a poor job of watching it and only cares about it at higher RPMs. It also does poor at detecting misfires.

Add to it we only have one O2 sensor minding both cylinder banks. So if a injector starts clogging it ends up richening up the entire engine to make up for the lean mixture coming out of that one cylinder.

That still lean mixture could be causing detonation as an example.


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It was a genuine ngk plug, only plugs I use. I did have intermittent O2 sensor lights come on years ago but were self resolving. Hadn't come on within a few years of this incident. It was running great prior to this occuring just like this last time. I think I'd notice a poor running condition before a related failure would occur?

 

[19963.4lsr5]

It was a genuine ngk plug, only plugs I use. I did have intermittent O2 sensor lights come on years ago but were self resolving. Hadn't come on within a few years of this incident. It was running great prior to this occuring just like this last time. I think I'd notice a poor running condition before a related failure would occur?

You may not notice knock/detonation.


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[vagrant318]

My runner is back in my driveway now. Will be inspecting tomorrow weather permitting. Also I had a good conversation with another mechanic today regarding helicoil/timesert fixes and the point at which the threads are damaged that the sleeve must become too large in diameter with too little to grab to withstand the pressure of detonation to not blow out. Thus somewhat coming to understand what the original shop could be saying but will still verify this myself.
So the shop I stopped in at had a customer with a 97 4runner, body looked mint with blown head gaskets at 160k miles. They pulled the heads, both cracked.. damn

 

[vagrant318]

Passenger side, middle cylinder is where we have the destroyed coil pack and yes the threads are damaged to where the plug would just rattle around in there. Would take a large tap to ream that out.
Maybe that spark plug indicates detonation/knock? The strap is pretty much on the electrode

 

[vagrant318]

The coil pack. So the shop didn't disconnect the battery but there is no power to anything. I'd like to get a CD out of the deck, is there a main power fuse or something they pulled? I had a new battery so that shouldn't be dead..

 

[mtbtim]

Passenger side, middle cylinder is where we have the destroyed coil pack and yes the threads are damaged to where the plug would just rattle around in there. Would take a large tap to ream that out.
Maybe that spark plug indicates detonation/knock? The strap is pretty much on the electrode

As long as you keep posting on this subject I'm going to keep hammering you to just buy the helicoil kit and give it a shot. That helicoil taps the threads quite a bit larger. I think there's a very good chance there's enough metal there for you to be able to tap it successfully. I understand the spark plug caused damage to the hole but you've got nothing to lose. Spend the $30 and give it a shot. If the hole is too wallowed out and the tap doesn't bite, you're out nothing because you can send back the kit for a full refund if you buy it via Amazon.

I hope your next post is you saying you bought the kit and you either report the repair worked or no it didn't and you have to search for another fix.