Ride Quality: Icon vs King

[Gabex35]

View attachment 115518

i should have gone black :redface:

 

[2014 Warthog]

ATM I only have half the story to share but...

I had Kings on my Taco, they were "stiff as hell". They worked ok keeping me off my bumpers but on typical rough road or washboard and even on the street when going over bumps, potholes etc, every tiny vibration was sent throughout the entire frame. Driving on a 30 mile gravel road was exceptionally tiring, felt like the entire truck was going to vibrate apart.

So for that reason on my 4runner I've ordered (backordered damit!) Icons instead due to their complete opposite valving. Hopefully for my on road and 98% of my offroad the ride will be much improved.

 

[Gabex35]

ATM I only have half the story to share but...

I had Kings on my Taco, they were "stiff as hell". They worked ok keeping me off my bumpers but on typical rough road or washboard and even on the street when going over bumps, potholes etc, every tiny vibration was sent throughout the entire frame. Driving on a 30 mile gravel road was exceptionally tiring, felt like the entire truck was going to vibrate apart.

So for that reason on my 4runner I've ordered (backordered damit!) Icons instead due to their complete opposite valving. Hopefully for my on road and 98% of my offroad the ride will be much improved.

Tacoma's typically run a heavier coil (650-700) for some reason. FJ's and 4R's run 550's. With that being said, i'm sure the heavier coil harshness can be eased out with proper valving. My plan is to go to a 650# when i get my Shrockworks bumper...hopefully it doesnt become to stiff.

 

[Rubberdown]

I noticed on my kings when I was screwing with the ride height they quickly stiffen up. King basically says don't do more than 2.5 inches of lift if I remember right because of this. My kings are downright plush.

 

[drewm]

Tacoma's typically run a heavier coil (650-700) for some reason. FJ's and 4R's run 550's. With that being said, i'm sure the heavier coil harshness can be eased out with proper valving. My plan is to go to a 650# when i get my Shrockworks bumper...hopefully it doesnt become to stiff.

I'm pretty sure it's because the Tacoma has a stiffer rear leaf spring than the rear spring in the 4runner and they designed it for use with the stock rear hardware. Suspension design dictates that in general the rear needs to be stiffer than the front.

Although realistically you should be running at least a 650 in front, I believe I've seen around that the stock 4runner spring is right around 550 which as we all know is too soft for offroad use with the amount of travel available. I think my 650 on my radflo is about right or just a teeny bit too soft and I don't have a metal front bumper. If I did mine again today I'd probably order a 700.

 

[Lord lost]

I've been running the King setup for the past three years on my 5th gen and I absolutely love how plush the ride is over rough terrain especially at higher speeds. My experience with using Bilstein in the past on my trucks and cars I've always found the digressive valving which Icon borrows from in their design tend to be quite a bit firmer over all especially over small irregularities and provides less chassis roll, which is a great design characteristics for smooth surfaces but I feel is less efficient in a off road environment. I like to float over rough terrain not feel them so for that I have to give the nod to King when it comes to off road. Don't forget everyone's needs to ride or handling characteristics of a vehicle is all their own, good luck on your quest to finding your perfect setup. :thumb:

 

[E-ROCKER]

I find it very interesting that there is close to nothing on mention of Walker Evan's suspension here or on most FJ forums. I ran Icon front and rear 2.5's on my FJ for 1 1/2 years before switching over to WE's.
Keep in mind I was heavily off roading every weekend. In that time with the Icons I had to replace both rear shocks under warranty and by the end of that time both replacements had blown as well and also had the passenger side spherical lower bearing fail (which they replaced for free and was great service) not trying to bash in any way, just my personal opinion and sharing.
So I switched over to the 2.5 WE's non-res and I have to say they have been awesome over the last 5 years. Used the Sh&%t outta them on the FJ for about 4 1/2 -5 years solid and never had any leaks in the front or any issues, the rears with all the weight were done by that time which most shocks would be, especially with a 200+ tool box in the rear.
That being said I was able to remove the WE's suspension from the FJ, have it rebuilt by them and installed it on the new 4Runner and it feels even more awesome than on the FJ.
WE's are a progressive type like the Kings ("King's" which I have no experience with) but compared to the icon's are less stiff, a little more springy and when off road you really feel the difference and in my opinion far better a ride off road but not as popular as other types of suspension mentioned on this forum.

 

[2014 Warthog]

Well I got my Icons installed today. And so far, my fears about a repeat of the terrible stiffness and jarring ride I got from my kings is completely gone.

My kings were giving me 2 in of lift, not cranked to max, were bone jarringly stiff over the tiniest things. Pothole, gutter lips on driveways, everything.

So far the road ride on the icons (currently set for 3 in of lift) is plesently firm but not jarring at all. Purposely ran over some 2 in deep potholes on our street and they went over them smooth and easy.

Going to give them a real workout in borrego next weekend. So far I'm extremely happy!

 

[MEMO CAMPOS]

Well I got my Icons installed today. And so far, my fears about a repeat of the terrible stiffness and jarring ride I got from my kings is completely gone.



My kings were giving me 2 in of lift, not cranked to max, were bone jarringly stiff over the tiniest things. Pothole, gutter lips on driveways, everything.



So far the road ride on the icons (currently set for 3 in of lift) is plesently firm but not jarring at all. Purposely ran over some 2 in deep potholes on our street and they went over them smooth and easy.



Going to give them a real workout in borrego next weekend. So far I'm extremely happy!

Such an unusual description of the kings, I have icons in my tacoma and kings on my 14 T4R. Kings on my t4r buttery smooth almost too soft, icons on my taco...very firm more of the jarring you got with kings. Maybe you had a valving issue not sure but most would say kings are just butter.

 

[2014 Warthog]

Maybe they changed things over the years or something. Mine were installed in 04 on my then new Taco. At the time I was dissapointed but just figured that that was the way those things were. (My first COs)

They worked well when going over larger stuff, but they just amplified every little jarring washboard, crack, pothole or small ground fluctuation.

I can see how things could have improved quite a bit in the last decade though.

 

[MEMO CAMPOS]

Maybe they changed things over the years or something. Mine were installed in 04 on my then new Taco. At the time I was dissapointed but just figured that that was the way those things were. (My first COs)



They worked well when going over larger stuff, but they just amplified every little jarring washboard, crack, pothole or small ground fluctuation.



I can see how things could have improved quite a bit in the last decade though.

Good point, that could've been the difference no doubt.

 

[HOJeepster]

the little bumps and cracks are a bit violent for what they are,

This is exactly what I don't like about the coilovers I run now, so my next set is going to try and eliminate this...leaning towards Kings with progressive valving/custom valve. In case people didn't want small bumps to result in big discomfort.

 

[HOJeepster]

Well I got my Icons installed today. And so far, my fears about a repeat of the terrible stiffness and jarring ride I got from my kings is completely gone.

My kings were giving me 2 in of lift, not cranked to max, were bone jarringly stiff over the tiniest things. Pothole, gutter lips on driveways, everything.

So far the road ride on the icons (currently set for 3 in of lift) is plesently firm but not jarring at all. Purposely ran over some 2 in deep potholes on our street and they went over them smooth and easy.

Going to give them a real workout in borrego next weekend. So far I'm extremely happy!

What I observe is that your response about the Kings and Icons are exactly opposite of everything I've read on numerous posts. Most people are saying the Kings are more plush at lower speeds due to their progressive valving (which makes sense) and that others you run the Icons believe they handle more stiff on the road but better at high speeds. (which makes sense with their digressive valving).

After years of reading these forums about suspensions...the only fact is that everyone can only offer their opinion. Just because someone loves their Radflos or Icons or Kings doesn't mean another person might hate the ride. The only conclusion I arrive at is that suspension 'feel' is totally subjective to the driver and their intended desired 'ride' comfort. Most of this is dependant on the valving and spring rates chosen.

I personally, want a plush, soft on road ride and would rather not feel the small bumps as a daily driver. The problem is, one person might tell me to run Icons' and another will tell me to run Radflos or Kings. Having owned the Radflos, I don't feel like they drive as others explained they would. Hence, I want to share my 2 cents....there is not 'one size fits all perfect suspension' for our rigs.

 

[2014 Warthog]

I personally, want a plush, soft on road ride and would rather not feel the small bumps as a daily driver. The problem is, one person might tell me to run Icons' and another will tell me to run Radflos or Kings. Having owned the Radflos, I don't feel like they drive as others explained they would. Hence, I want to share my 2 cents....there is not 'one size fits all perfect suspension' for our rigs.

Heh It's definately true that 90% of the ride is subjective to the driver Really, the only way to tell if one or the other is going to be best for you is to be able to ride test them rather than have someone try to describe it...

Couple things about my kings I've learned recently...

1. I installed them 10 years ago and possibly the COs of 10 years ago may not be the COs of today. So my desc of the ride itself may no longer apply.

2. I had them installed by toyota and someone else pointed out that they may have installed springs that were too stiff, which combined with the 2 inches of preload may have cause them to be unbearably stiff with the relatively light truck.

I would have changed them had I known that was not supposed to be normal but till now I didn't even know that wasn't normal!

Any-who, I guess I can only say that even with 3 inches of preloading, I love the soft smoothness of the Icons over the cracks and potholes as well as the washboard, rubble and rough hard rocky terrain of the desert and mountain roads. I'm definately not racing or jumping though, not sure how they are for that...

One thing is for sure, they (and likely 9 out of 10 after market suspensions) absolutely KILL over the wimpy stock parts!!

 

[THEROK]

Those so called wimpy stock parts went through a rigorous development program that NO aftermarket company can begin to afford.

Hoj speaks the truth... Again.

I have the full icon setup on my land cruiser. Love it so far.

 

[2014 Warthog]

Those so called wimpy stock parts went through a rigorous development program that NO aftermarket company can begin to afford.
QUOTE]

Uh well were talking about shocks and springs here so I doubt that's even true. But even if it was, the ride quality of the 4runner is tuned to it's main use which is as a grocery getter unfortunately. And as such the shocks and springs in use are not that great for offroad, thus making them "wimpy" for that task. The FJ has slightly better stock offroadability OEM.

Third party companies spend a LOT of time engineering aftermarket parts for offroad use that Toyota doesnt even touch, which is why Toyota looks to aftermarket when they build their racing trucks and when selling offroad upgrades to their trucks. As I mentioned, I bought my Kings for my Taco from Toyota because Toyota doesn't have anything even close to offer themselves.

 

[THEROK]

Those so called wimpy stock parts went through a rigorous development program that NO aftermarket company can begin to afford.
QUOTE]

Uh well were talking about shocks and springs here so I doubt that's even true. But even if it was, the ride quality of the 4runner is tuned to it's main use which is as a grocery getter unfortunately. And as such the shocks and springs in use are not that great for offroad, thus making them "wimpy" for that task. The FJ has slightly better stock offroadability OEM.

Third party companies spend a LOT of time engineering aftermarket parts for offroad use that Toyota doesnt even touch, which is why Toyota looks to aftermarket when they build their racing trucks and when selling offroad upgrades to their trucks. As I mentioned, I bought my Kings for my Taco from Toyota because Toyota doesn't have anything even close to offer themselves.

you're post is pretty tough to decipher as it's completely, utterly subjective.

bottom-line is, aftermarket parts simply do not stand up to the scale, volume, and rigor of OEM parts. these so called upgraded shocks require more maintenance. it's engineering 101. concessions abound.

 

[snivilous]

you're post is pretty tough to decipher as it's completely, utterly subjective.

bottom-line is, aftermarket parts simply do not stand up to the scale, volume, and rigor of OEM parts. these so called upgraded shocks require more maintenance. it's engineering 101. concessions abound.

Just because something isn't tested as thoroughly doesn't mean it's weaker, how is that engineering 101?

 

[THEROK]

Just because something isn't tested as thoroughly doesn't mean it's weaker, how is that engineering 101?

pls don't put words in mouth.

you can't have so called race shocks and not have downsides to them compared to factory shocks.

noise. longevity. maintenance. durability. reliability. nothing is simply better period.

too many people post that are uneducated, ignorant and uninformed.

 

[mgrande]

bottom-line is, aftermarket parts simply do not stand up to the scale, volume, and rigor of OEM parts.

Ugh yeah, because the guys racing Baja and KOH use nothing but thoroughly tested OEM Toyota parts...