i have a tough time with internet forums because i subscribe to the 9/10 rule. that 1 of the 10 you actually want to keep in touch with because they get it. the others... throw aways.
your post is in that 90%.
Ride Quality: Icon vs King
- Thread starter PhoRunner
- Start date
i have a tough time with internet forums because i subscribe to the 9/10 rule. that 1 of the 10 you actually want to keep in touch with because they get it. the others... throw aways.
your post is in that 90%.
joneseyyy
New member
I think you guys are arguing apples vs. oranges. OEM shocks/springs are designed to supports the stock weight, stock ride height, stock capability of the 4runner for something like 75K+ miles. Aftermarket coilovers are designed in the likeness of racing equipment designed for maximum performance over a shorter duration. Both are built to their respective price points. I would describe neither as wimpy, and wouldn't say toyota's R&D on stock shocks makes them superior to the aftermarket in every application/use case. OK, I'm done...
mgrande
New member
That's fine bud, I'll be printing your post up and framing it on my wall since it was written by such a bamf engineer as yourself.
Gabex35
New member
Swarty
New member
Nope...
Toyota, like all auto companies, sends expected mass, cg, and wheel travel measurements along with a price point and reliability requirements to a shock company like KYB or Bilstein while the car exists only in CAD. Later the Toyota is sent several options and decides between them after a couple weeks, maybe a month, of driving around a couple test mules. Every reputable shock company does more testing than the auto manufacturers. This is how modern manufacturing is done, you piece out design and manufacturing to specialized companies that compete for your business. Toyota has high stds but if you think they are doing in house suspension development then their marketing dept has succeeded and fooled you despite your excessive student debt.
Fear the Tree! :biggrin1:
Toyota, like all auto companies, sends expected mass, cg, and wheel travel measurements along with a price point and reliability requirements to a shock company like KYB or Bilstein while the car exists only in CAD. Later the Toyota is sent several options and decides between them after a couple weeks, maybe a month, of driving around a couple test mules. Every reputable shock company does more testing than the auto manufacturers. This is how modern manufacturing is done, you piece out design and manufacturing to specialized companies that compete for your business. Toyota has high stds but if you think they are doing in house suspension development then their marketing dept has succeeded and fooled you despite your excessive student debt.
Fear the Tree! :biggrin1:
mgrande
New member
consider it done :cheers:
They'll even brag/market their outsourcing on some models, ie "TRD OffRoad with tuned Bistein suspension".
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So this is my concern with going Icon. I drive onroad a lot and dont want to jeopardize this part of my ride. Do I get different valving setup on icons if I go that route or do I go king/fox?
Thanks again guys
Just get kings. They are butter on everything. I'm another one who thought the icons were jarring on small potholes and bridge abutments. I'll never go back.
DesertCanyons
New member
ICON vs King
This thread is full of good info on ICON and King shocks. Now I think understand the difference in progressive and digressive valving between the two.
I've been shopping for shocks lately. I found the King and ICON shocks are priced very close, the ICON being a couple hundred dollars more. That's if you compare similar front and back 2.5" long travel shocks with remote reservoirs and adjustment controls on both brands.
Both brands are based in California and made here in the USA, AFAIK.
I haven't figured out whether I need longer brake lines and new bump stops. Apparently longer bump stops are recommended and noted by others here.
The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a complete suspension set-up is needing to complete a couple of big home projects before I'll have time to install the shocks.
This thread is full of good info on ICON and King shocks. Now I think understand the difference in progressive and digressive valving between the two.
I've been shopping for shocks lately. I found the King and ICON shocks are priced very close, the ICON being a couple hundred dollars more. That's if you compare similar front and back 2.5" long travel shocks with remote reservoirs and adjustment controls on both brands.
Both brands are based in California and made here in the USA, AFAIK.
I haven't figured out whether I need longer brake lines and new bump stops. Apparently longer bump stops are recommended and noted by others here.
The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger on a complete suspension set-up is needing to complete a couple of big home projects before I'll have time to install the shocks.
guitarsail
New member
Sorry for the zombie thread...the thing I've been digging for and haven't seen it asked or answered. I know the difference between the Icon's and Kings/Fox, but what I really want to know is in regards to the kinds/fox's, how do they do with the dreaded nose dive. With the Springs that they pair up their CO's with is nose dive better than factory? I can deal with a little nose dive if its for that buttery ride of the kings/foxs...
I would be interested to hear this as well. I would think the Kings resist nose dive better than factory due to the stiffer springs.
Gclark949
New member
My experience with the Kings is that they cured my nose dive. Also, what I found even more annoying was what I call the "bouncy nose" that I had when driving across a simple dip in the road at slow speeds. It would bouncy bouncy and that has been totally cured.
As for feeling every crack and bump in the road, I would say it is same as OEM with C-rated AT tires.
I am running with the coil adjustment fully backed out, straight out of the box. Achieved 2.5" lift in the front.
As for feeling every crack and bump in the road, I would say it is same as OEM with C-rated AT tires.
I am running with the coil adjustment fully backed out, straight out of the box. Achieved 2.5" lift in the front.
DeepSea88
New member
King set up
I've been running the 2.5" coil overs with remote reservoirs and the upgraded 700 lbs coils in the front and the 2.5" with remote reservoirs in the rear with the heavy duty OME springs. The nose dive isn't noticedable unless you have to slam on your breaks (I drive the 15 and 5 in San Diego daily...it happens a lot).
I also have the shrockworks front bumper with full bull bar and a Smittybilt X20 Gen 2 10k synthetic line winch with a Factor 55 Ultra hook (yellow). The weight of the bumper and winch make the from end lower by maybe. 1/4". It's awesome. I have been off roading with my set up for the last three months in Anza Borrego and Corral Canyon here in San Diego. Lots of fast runs, washboard terrain, rocks trails, open road. You'll be very please with a Kingns set up.
I've been running the 2.5" coil overs with remote reservoirs and the upgraded 700 lbs coils in the front and the 2.5" with remote reservoirs in the rear with the heavy duty OME springs. The nose dive isn't noticedable unless you have to slam on your breaks (I drive the 15 and 5 in San Diego daily...it happens a lot).
I also have the shrockworks front bumper with full bull bar and a Smittybilt X20 Gen 2 10k synthetic line winch with a Factor 55 Ultra hook (yellow). The weight of the bumper and winch make the from end lower by maybe. 1/4". It's awesome. I have been off roading with my set up for the last three months in Anza Borrego and Corral Canyon here in San Diego. Lots of fast runs, washboard terrain, rocks trails, open road. You'll be very please with a Kingns set up.
Attachments
guitarsail
New member
That is quite a bit in the front for having the coil adjusted all the way out. I'd be hoping for 2", 2.5" is a little too much, I'll end up with reverse rake when loaded....hmmm
Ray Dunakin
Senior Member
I have Kings on my Trail w/KDSS and love the way it rides!
MyanRagahis
Member
You know what, I PM'd you but maybe I could get different inputs from other members as well.
With the weight of roughly 200+ lbs up front, did any of you feel the need to get your front shocks revalved or are you using it straight out of the box? I'm assuming it still feels great.
I know I read one member here (weeeee?) custom tuned his. No high speed off-roading here other than 70+ mph on the highway. Just more of a weekend thing when I have the time.
Currently looking into all 4 corners with compression adjusters, and 700lb springs up front. Should I not worry about revalving since I'm looking into the adjusters and the 700lb springs?
Currently using 700lb King springs with my 6112's and while it's doing a decent job, I'm curious about messing with my setup with Black Friday around the corner.
DeepSea88
New member
To be 100% honest, if you're not using your rig to go off road at high speeds....don't get Kings. What you have is legit and capable. The 700 lb springs will assist your 6112s in the off roading you're looking for. Keep your hard earned dollars and spend them on better things like fuel for long road trips. The valving on Kings can get very specific and I'm not one for messing with suspension components mainly because I'm not a professional and I truly cannot tell the difference between extreme stiff and extreme soft. I hope this is helpful and I am more than willing to reply to more questions! Hooyah!
MyanRagahis
Member
Thanks for the input!
Yeah I figured I should be happy with what I have. It's been fine for what I've done with it. It's my forever vehicle and just figured I'd give it some attention. Sometimes I feel on road could be a bit smoother. I actually experimented removing the sway bar and it was unbelievable smoother and flexed easier. I'll probably lessen the preload and see how that feels.
I still have it in the back of my mind, so I'll see what happens.
DeepSea88
New member
I took my sway bar off due to complications with my remote reservoirs. I was sent the brackets for the Land Cruiser model and not the T4R...long story short I've got the correct ones on my rig now but kept the sway bar off. The only downside is high speed turning...just don't go fast into turns. That's about it. As always...I'm not a professional so I don't know all of the pros and cons of having a sway bar vs not having one.
