Selling '02 w/ 127k, Question for Those Who've Bought/Sold with Mods

[KentuckyChunder]

Before posting on Craigslist and the T4R Classifieds, I have a question for those who have experience buying/selling 4Runners w/ modifications. I realize I'm not going to recoup the $ I've got into it, but really have no idea where to start with an asking price. The only other Toyota I've owned was my previous vehicle - stock 2000 Tacoma bought for $8700 and sold two years later for $8500 (miles were super low, 50-70k).

2002 SR5 Thunder Cloud Metallic 127k miles w/ rear locker
2.5" lift, 16" Wheels, 265 Duratracs (Feb 2013)
Replaced timing belt (110k), flushed radiator/trans
All-Weather floor/cargo mats, K&N air filter

All told, I have $4300 in parts and labor into it, paid $9700 cash = $14k

I live in Colorado where demand is high, have only taken off-road a few times, selling to buy a newer 4Runner or Taco. Thanks for any input on asking price, really appreciate it fellas.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I'd like to ask (corrected) you exactly what any smart buyer would ask.

What exactly did the $4300 you've invested consist of?

Why do you think it is worth more than or less than KBB private sale price "good condition" ? Keep in mind only 2% of used cars are considered excellent.

 

[KentuckyChunder]

Thanks for the response Brian.

All upgrades and maintenance were done professionally:
mechanical - timing belt and water pump, fluids flushed ($1050)
body/suspension - 2.5" Old Man Emu kit ($1300), FN Five Star Matte Bronze Wheels ($775), 265/75/16 Duratracs ($900), WeatherTech DigitalFit Floor Liners front/back/cargo and K&N air filter ($335)

The truck was bone stock up until 8k miles ago - prior/original owners were an older couple who babied it, garaged it, back seat and cargo looked like they had never been touched. So the only thing keeping it from "excellent" condition when I purchased were minor cosmetic flaws - small dent in rear and front corner bumpers. I've owned it for two years and put 16k miles on it, have taken off pavement 3-4 times for camping trips but nothing remotely hardcore as far as off-roading.

If I'm going to take too much of a hit price-wise then I'll just sell the tires and wheels and replace with Firestone Destination A/Ts or Michelin A/T2s and black steelies... I work from home so it's fine as my only vehicle, but I've been tempted to replace with a 5-7 yr old 4Runner/Taco/FJ.

The arbitrary number that I was gonna throw out there is $12k, but I don't know if that's way off one way or the other, hence my post. Thx

 

[audiness]

I can tell you that if you spend $4000 in modifications, you can realistically expect to increase your sale price over blue book by at most $500 - $1000. People are generally not willing to pay more for a vehicle with mods. Many people return the vehicle to stock before they sell for this reason.

 

[cdrewferd]

If I was looking, and I was for a while, the only way I would pay over $10k is for under 100k miles. Now with the few things you've done to it, I might have been willing to go a bit over. I would say start at $11k and see what you get, but I don't think you'll get too many bites.

 

[KentuckyChunder]

good to know. I may try putting it on CL here in Denver to test the local market... and if it doesn't sell then I'll return it to stock and sell the tires/wheels separately. but I likely won't touch the suspension regardless.

 

[sawguy]

I can tell you that if you spend $4000 in modifications, you can realistically expect to increase your sale price over blue book by at most $500 - $1000. People are generally not willing to pay more for a vehicle with mods. Many people return the vehicle to stock before they sell for this reason.

In a way kinda like selling a rifle with a scope on it. You almost give the scope away.

 

[BrianSD_42]

So my logic would be like this.

Hypothetical truck:

If KBB says its worth $7500 for your zip code, options, private party etc.

And in this Hypo ... you spent $2000 on maintenance and upgrades.

Logic says most sales go for less than KBB by at least $500. Most sales is not "most sales talked about on T4R" but most sales of 4Runner's in general, excluding the enthusiast crowd.

So $7000 would be good, maybe add $1000 for the mods but don't expect much.

Based on my hypothetical I would price the above (not your truck) at $8000 as a deal. Maybe list as $8500 OBO.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Here is what your truck is worth today, although I don't know that it is based on CO prices. I seriously don't believe a zip code change makes a difference more than 15% of the value of the car.

Anyways picture attached.

 

[BrianSD_42]

And here is NADA pricing for Denver, CO zip code.

NADA is supposed to be based on sales records from the DMV. This chart represents what people are really buying / selling for.

In general most T4R peeps I meet think their truck is worth $10K - no matter what. The reality of selling on the private market is much different.

I wish you luck though! Hope you get something you want for it. Is keeping it an option?


opcorn:

 

[BrianSD_42]

I think if your rig is really clean and you've spend $4k in upgrades / maintenance ....

Since clean retail is around $8200 and private party is around $6500 ....

If you had a hard sell price of $9000 or $9500 you MIGHT be able to sell it within a few weeks.

It just depends on who might be interested.

 

[packweco]

My coworker and I had a lengthy discussion about sale price after mods. We both came to the agreement that you can pretty much assume you will not get any of the money back that you put into mods, especially if there are no buyers that will appreciate them. [MENTION=59694]audiness[/MENTION] said $500-$1000 above bluebook, which is probably a really good estimate. I have a pickup that I have probably $12,000 of parts on, and I probably couldn't sell it for more than 6-7k, and they go around 3k now.

You listed some maintenance items which can be thrown out the window. If a timing belt isn't done on a 4runner by that mileage, anyone who knows much about them just won't buy it.

Sorry to be a downer, but that's just been my experience with all of my modded toys. You'd probably see the highest amount of money if you sold your mod parts separately before selling the vehicle. Of course there isn't any harm in listing high and seeing what you get!!

 

[donkeyhoatie]

I think if your rig is really clean and you've spend $4k in upgrades / maintenance ....

Since clean retail is around $8200 and private party is around $6500 ....

If you had a hard sell price of $9000 or $9500 you MIGHT be able to sell it within a few weeks.

It just depends on who might be interested.

Brian,

I totally agree with your way of thinking about prices. But, I think you're lower on the prices than I would be. Looks like you based your pricing on a 2001 version, whereas I ran the numbers on a 2002 and came up with a range of between around $9000 NADA retail and $7500 or so on KBB private party. (Full disclosure, I clicked on the "premium wheels" on KBB since he says that he upgraded them, but I don't know how much that affected the value.)

As for including the cost of the TB replacement in your "investment/upgrade," I don't think you'd see a dime of that back in your re-sale. I mean, that's just a maintenance thing, right? By that same logic, should you expect to recoup your costs for changing oil, coolant, transmission fluid, etc.?

 

[D Farms]

If you want to make the best bang for your buck, save your OEM parts before you do a mod, then when you sell it just reinstal them. For example I just did a projector retrofit if I go and sell the vehicle I won't get any money back, however if I stick stock headlamps in I can take those projectors out and put them in my next ride, or sell them as is to someone with a 4runner

 

[SCRunner12]

Pricing vehicles is really hard and especially when you're not in the same region. Is yours a sport? Also did you add a locker or are you referring to a center diff locker? Two totally different things and definitely will impact the resale price. Obviously Denver is a high priced market like the PNW and the bay area, so you can sell above KBB no problem. Some things to take into consideration is that Thundercloud Metallic is a rare color and people will pay a bit more to have it in certain cases.

I can't see you getting 12k for a lightly modded vehicle. Mods don't add value to the normal buyer, but a wheeler/web-wheeler might be more attracted to an already modded vehicle and pay the extra premium. Your mods are pretty tame though and will attract a wider range of buyers than someone like Dirtco selling his 4runner. At the same time they are simple mods that you did and won't fetch anywhere close to their purchase price. The buyer will have to have some of the same tastes as you and needs to really want to shell out the extra money for the mods. Also the weathertechs will hold no extra value and I suggest pulling them and selling separate. They are nice, but most buyers will look at them as a nice add on, but not necessary for the extra $300 you'd raise the price. I'd mention them when selling the vehicle if they want them added in for an extra price.

The low miles and maintenance is key and will be very attractive to potential buyers, but won't get you a lot more over KBB. Those items are usually points buyers use to drop the price down when negotiating, but people won't really justify an extra $1000 for some maintenance.

I'd say you could get 9k, if it does have the rear locker, maybe 9.5k, but not $12,000. Hope this helps.

 

[sn0wrunner]

Without seeing the vehicle, it's hard to say. I'd put it up between $10-11k if it were mine. You're ideally looking for a high school kid in Highlands Ranch who's parents are buying them a first car and they think the lift and wheels are cool. You got a good chance at it. I'd say if you're looking for a quick sell $8500-$9000 would do it. I'd hold out for a little while though.

What kind of rear locker does it have? Any interest in swapping rear axles with me? I could use a rear locker, and the high school kid that wants to buy your 4runner won't even know what he's missing. If you're interested let me know a price.

 

[BrianSD_42]

My bad.

Yes those numbers are for 01.

02 could be worth considerably ($1000 ?) more.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

I'd like to chime in. I don't think my opinion will be popular, but this is how I see it from an objective standpoint...

Money put into maintenance, which follows the maintenance schedule, does not increase the value of the vehicle over the NADA value. However, a lack of maintenance does detract from the value. If I have a vehicle valued at $10k NADA, which needs $1k worth of maintenance, the vehicle is worth $9k. After I spend $1k on maintenance to get it up to date, it would then be worth $10k. Also, going above and beyond the maintenance schedule is unlikely to add much value. For example, changing the oil every 1k miles rather than 3k. Somebody might pay more, but it will be tough to argue the increased value to the average buyer.

When you replace an item that normally comes on a truck (tires, for example) with a better part, you cannot expect to recoup 100% of the investment. My truck was worth $10k with stock wheels and tires. If I put $1k into tires, my truck is not worth $11k now. That would be like telling me that, without any tires on my truck, it is worth $10k. Does that make sense? Some improved parts can spark the interest of specific buyers, I do agree. If typical replacement tires cost $600 and you put $1k into upgraded tires, you have really only put $400 additional into the vehicle. Now, depreciate that for wear and mileage; now argue with the buyer that these are the most perfect tires for his purpose. In the end, you may be only increasing the truck's value by $50-100.

Specialty mods... Bumpers for example. Cars come with bumpers. If I put an $800 bumper on my truck, the value does not increase by $800 unless the stock bumper comes along with the deal. The NADA value assumes that the truck has bumpers. Here's what I would do for specialty parts, really basic... If my truck originally sold for $20k and NADA says it's worth $10k, I have had 50% depreciation. How much is that stock bumper new? $500? We can cut that in half and say the used bumper is worth $250. When I put an $800 bumper on, I think I can only argue that I have added $550 value to the truck. But then, the bumper I installed is no longer new, so it's not really an $800 bumper. For something like that, I would only expect $400-500 in return.

Additional parts, a winch for example. Trucks like these don't usually have winches. Therefore, I would expect a much higher rate of return for non-factory parts that are added. A $400 winch might be worth an additional $250-300, but again, for the right buyer.

As unpopular as it might be, that's my opinion. I have to chuckle to myself when someone is selling a vehicle and announces that the price is right because they just put money into an oil change, or they fixed something that was broken.

 

[2002tii]

I was planning to sell mine earlier this year to buy a Land Cruiser, but a new job meant the loss of a company car and I decided that the 4Runner made a better second car than dropping $5-10,000 into a Cruiser.

I had several very interested parties in the $8500-9000 range for mine, which sounds a lot like yours minus the lift. And, yes, you're right - clean 3rd gens do go for a little more in certain markets like Denver.

 

[white_n_slow]

I can tell you that if you spend $4000 in modifications, you can realistically expect to increase your sale price over blue book by at most $500 - $1000. People are generally not willing to pay more for a vehicle with mods. Many people return the vehicle to stock before they sell for this reason.

This. Any money spent on modification should be considered for your personal enjoyment. From a resale perspective, it is cash down the toilet.

I would say 95% of the general public shopping for a 4runner couldn't give two poops about lift, off road tires (better off with snows or all seasons), sliders etc.

You will make more money returning the vehicle to stock and selling all the parts here on the forums or on the local craigslist.