Shouldn't 2012's be more "clearance" priced?

[evomind]

Sorry, no. I bought a brand new one. Thats what i was saying. Used one's cost almost as much as new one's. Thats my point. Not a huge depreciation.I thought about waiting but my trade was dropping faster in value than i hoped to save. So I pulled the trigger on the 12 LE @ 10% off. I didnt expect to get much off a new 13. I was hesitating waiting for info on the 13's but felt any changes would be minor. So far that appears to be true. we'll see soon enough.

I was hoping I got that wrong...
Good deal.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

I totally agree with the comments that Toyota should NOT be throwing incentives at the 4R.

One major decision point for me was depreciation.

I looked at a number of suv's and most had major incentives on them. 6k off of 2012 Explorer LE's and even dicounts on 13's.

The Explorers have lots to love inside, they are more modern and tech oriented (for better or worse), they have 6speed trannys, more HP (though less torque) and my wife liked it better. we owned a 2002 explorer 4x4 for 5 years with no real issues so we are ok with 4ords.

But after 5 years of ownership and 44k miles (low for california) a dealer offered me 5k on a trade. 5k wow that kind of depreciation sucks for a 32k vehicle. I eventually sold it private party for 10k. still ouch.

thats because 4ord discounts and incentives suck the value out of the purchase. People expect them to be cheap and nobody will buy a used one for anything but a steal of a bargain.

The 4R on the other hand has little or no incentives and folks expect to pay more for them so they do...

I have to admit that i was pleased to get 10% off of my brand new 2012 LE. msrp $43,215 for $39,205.00. That was the average price of a 2011 with 25k miles around here.

most dealers in my area didnt have more than 5 4R's and the closest one only had 1 sr5. It was even harder to get the mag grey LE. There were 2 within 75 miles. One dealer had it and wouldn't deal on it at all.

The 4R best served by no incentives.

I guess we will agree to disagree... I think Toyota during clearance should offer the same $1,500 you can get off a Camry, off a 4Runner. I don't think that would effect resale at all... If you think you will sell a three year old 4Runner with 30k-50k for close to the purchase price of a new one just because blue book says it's worth that much good luck. Re-sale with Toyota's has to be looked at more as a long term situation. 5-10 years out the Toyota will be worth much more than it's competition.

If there is really any confusion the reason they offered you $5k for your 02' Explorer Sport has nothing to do with incentives, and everything to do with the vehicle itself. Ford has recently done a pretty good about face, but in 2002 quality was a lot different.

 

[flatrockphoto]

A question of reliability and poker

I understand the sentiment, and am looking forward to my first Toyota and it holding value well... however $1-$2k in rebates at the end of the model year would be nice on a vehicle that at $33,900 with no options other than cloth floormats is a bit pricey compared to some competition. I know it would most likely mean purchasing right now, verse waiting till deep into the fall for my wife and I.

I agree about the initial price point of the 4Runner, but only if that price point, with its very infrequent incentive program, is taken on its own. But in comparing price in terms of build quality and reliability on a long-term basis, and only using the 4Runner's peer group of the Grand Cherokee and Nissan Pathfinder (which are-as I can find-the only two other vehicles in the mid-sized, body-on-frame, low-range SUV class), the 4Runner is a clear winner. Why? Based on Consumer Reports' used reliability and resale ratings: 1) only the 4Runner is rated as a "Good Bet"; 2) of the last 10 model years for each of the three vehicles, the lowest rating for the Toyota overall was "Above Average," while the best for the Nissan was just "Average" and the lowest was "Worse," and the Jeep managed only one year out of ten-2008-to rise above "Below Average" or "Average"; and 3) as I've said before, the 4Runner's mean resale value based on all models since 2008 is always more than $1,000 higher than the next-best competitor, the Jeep (appr. $24,000 mean for a 2008 Toyota, versus $22,500 for the Jeep).

Moreover, what is peace of mind worth? In 10 model years, the Toyota sank to "Average" for only one detail rating, while both the Jeep and Nissan were veritable icons of unreliability. Toyota knows this; just like Jeep, we're cult mentality about the 4Runner-a cult of bulletproof build quality, and the truck is priced accordingly.

As to what was said above-paraphrasing-the manufacturer doesn't make money on used sales, I disagree. Ever had a bad experience with a vehicle model? Did you go out and buy the same vehicle again? Good build quality and good resale=repeat customers. A company needs folks to come back and buy again.
And look at all of us on this forum-we do.

I don't disagree that the 4Runner would walk off the lots a few more times-maybe many, based on the positive psychology of "I got a good deal"-with incentives, but that's the game Toyota chooses to play. So, with all sincere and due respect, yes, "buying bonuses" are nice, but in this poker game, Toyota's betting we're usually bluffing about walking away to another brand. Most of the time, they're probably right.

 

[Intruder]

But in comparing price in terms of build quality and reliability on a long-term basis, and only using the 4Runner's peer group of the Grand Cherokee and Nissan Pathfinder (which are-as I can find-the only two other vehicles in the mid-sized, body-on-frame, low-range SUV class), the 4Runner is a clear winner.

Minor nitpick - the Grand Cherokee has always been unibody and the Pathfinder has been unibody since 1996. In terms of body on frame 4-door SUVs I think the JK Unlimiteds might be the only comparison.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

I agree about the initial price point of the 4Runner, but only if that price point, with its very infrequent incentive program, is taken on its own. But in comparing price in terms of build quality and reliability on a long-term basis, and only using the 4Runner's peer group of the Grand Cherokee and Nissan Pathfinder (which are-as I can find-the only two other vehicles in the mid-sized, body-on-frame, low-range SUV class), the 4Runner is a clear winner. Why? Based on Consumer Reports' used reliability and resale ratings: 1) only the 4Runner is rated as a "Good Bet"; 2) of the last 10 model years for each of the three vehicles, the lowest rating for the Toyota overall was "Above Average," while the best for the Nissan was just "Average" and the lowest was "Worse," and the Jeep managed only one year out of ten-2008-to rise above "Below Average" or "Average"; and 3) as I've said before, the 4Runner's mean resale value based on all models since 2008 is always more than $1,000 higher than the next-best competitor, the Jeep (appr. $24,000 mean for a 2008 Toyota, versus $22,500 for the Jeep).

Moreover, what is peace of mind worth? In 10 model years, the Toyota sank to "Average" for only one detail rating, while both the Jeep and Nissan were veritable icons of unreliability. Toyota knows this; just like Jeep, we're cult mentality about the 4Runner-a cult of bulletproof build quality, and the truck is priced accordingly.

As to what was said above-paraphrasing-the manufacturer doesn't make money on used sales, I disagree. Ever had a bad experience with a vehicle model? Did you go out and buy the same vehicle again? Good build quality and good resale=repeat customers. A company needs folks to come back and buy again.
And look at all of us on this forum-we do.

I don't disagree that the 4Runner would walk off the lots a few more times-maybe many, based on the positive psychology of "I got a good deal"-with incentives, but that's the game Toyota chooses to play. So, with all sincere and due respect, yes, "buying bonuses" are nice, but in this poker game, Toyota's betting we're usually bluffing about walking away to another brand. Most of the time, they're probably right.

I understand where you are coming from however I think the game has changed espcially when looking at Jeep as competition. Since Fiat purchased Chrysler the quality of the Jeep is going up... so the prior 10 years will at this point obviously favor Toyota. The new Jeep Grand Cherokee is stiff competiton... espcially as you get into the Limited and Overland models with the V8 and Quadra Drive and Quadra Lift. The JGC is currently up 44% over previous years sales, and have proven so popular that Fiat/Chrysler has decided to keep the factory open instead of the normal 2 week shut down to help keep up with demand. It had been argued that because the 4Runner is so popular, and sells so well that Toyota doesn't feel the need to do incentives... yet even with the JGC's popularity I can get $1,500 incentive money right now.

It seems strange because I feel that the Camry is polar opposite of the 4Runner... priced very well to start, has incentives, and dealers are willing to negotiate. Part of this is due to the fact that Toyota wants to be #1 in that segment... with the JGC bringing very real pressure with increased sales, and improved reliability, you think Toyota would extend the $1,500 incentive in order to stay competitive with Jeep?

 

[SgnDen]

I guess we will agree to disagree... I think Toyota during clearance should offer the same $1,500 you can get off a Camry, off a 4Runner. I don't think that would effect resale at all... If you think you will sell a three year old 4Runner with 30k-50k for close to the purchase price of a new one just because blue book says it's worth that much good luck. Re-sale with Toyota's has to be looked at more as a long term situation. 5-10 years out the Toyota will be worth much more than it's competition.

If there is really any confusion the reason they offered you $5k for your 02' Explorer Sport has nothing to do with incentives, and everything to do with the vehicle itself. Ford has recently done a pretty good about face, but in 2002 quality was a lot different.

+1 Very well put. Discounting purchase price has zero correlation to resale value. Gaining a temporary price break does not set broader market values down the road. Think about it.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

+1 Very well put. Discounting purchase price has zero correlation to resale value. Gaining a temporary price break does not set broader market values down the road. Think about it.

Yeah the main frustration with this was that my wife and I had already come to the decision together that we wanted our new purchase to be a 4Runner... she sees the ads on TV about clearance month and all the people finding out that "NOW is the time to buy," then getting to the dealership and realizing that the only "deal" is low financing through Toyota with extremely high credit. That in fact there was no discount or "clearance." While we could swing the cost we have been told now, we find ourselves holding out... and even considering used with a few more options. If our saleswoman e-mailed me today that she could do $1,500 less than we have been quoted because of incentives we would be down there tonight buying a 4Runner.

 

[K O]

Yeah the main frustration with this was that my wife and I had already come to the decision together that we wanted our new purchase to be a 4Runner... she sees the ads on TV about clearance month and all the people finding out that "NOW is the time to buy," then getting to the dealership and realizing that the only "deal" is low financing through Toyota with extremely high credit. That in fact there was no discount or "clearance." While we could swing the cost we have been told now, we find ourselves holding out... and even considering used with a few more options. If our saleswoman e-mailed me today that she could do $1,500 less than we have been quoted because of incentives we would be down there tonight buying a 4Runner.

Toyota sells more than 300,000 Camry units per year. They sell less than 50,000 4Runners. Nobody is salivating over a Camry, and there's LOTS on the lot - hence the incentive. Lots of people want a 4Runner, but there are very few of them available, hence the lack of discount. Why do you feel entitled to a $1,500 discount? Toyota can run their business however they want, and what they want to do is not offer discounts on their highly desirable vehicles. Shame on them for having business sense!

If Toyota thinks they can sell every single 4Runner on the lot without offering any incentives, then there is no reason to offer an incentive. It might take a few more weeks to sell them all, but why give a discount for no reason?

 

[1engineer]

Yeah the main frustration with this was that my wife and I had already come to the decision together that we wanted our new purchase to be a 4Runner... she sees the ads on TV about clearance month and all the people finding out that "NOW is the time to buy," then getting to the dealership and realizing that the only "deal" is low financing through Toyota with extremely high credit. That in fact there was no discount or "clearance." While we could swing the cost we have been told now, we find ourselves holding out... and even considering used with a few more options. If our saleswoman e-mailed me today that she could do $1,500 less than we have been quoted because of incentives we would be down there tonight buying a 4Runner.

I understand your frustration but you have to look at it from a business viewpoint:

Toyota sells hundreds of thousands of these units yearly - just not in NA. They are called Prados everywhere else. They sell about 50-60K/yr of the 4Runners in NA. From a business viewpoint, they know NA market for full framed SUVs and they ship enough to satisfy this market but not saturate it. Because of the current Dollar/Yen conversion they do not make as much on full Japanese produced vehicles shipped here as they do elsewhere in the world. They also know that as many as they ship here they will sell with little to no discounting. So, good luck with your purchase and remember that while you don't think full price is a good deal the guy in line right behind you is fine with that. Supply and demand baby.

 

[Digitalwiz]

I have to agree with the previous post. Will $1500.00 really make the difference for you? If so maybe you should be looking at another vehicle.

I sold my 5 year old BMW 5 Series to jump into my new t4r and i have little regret. I knew that gas would cost more, I knew that i could buy an x5 but chose a t4r for all the same reasons everyone else here has.

If it were $1500.00 more i still would'nt have purchased a camry, mini cooper or a wrangler unlimited. I knew that the t4r was the best option for me @ 40k.

Also are you not getting at least 8% off of msrp? I got over %10, 4000.00 off of my limited.

I know you can get 3k off of an sr5.

when the dealer is into its holdback what more can you expect?

btw: i got 10k off my new tundra in 2008. maybe wait for gas prices to spike some more and maybe toyota will incentivize the less fuel efficient models in its line. then again maybe not...

 

[Ridin4Runner]

I will keep this thing forever so '12 vs '13 does not make that big a diff to me (resale). But I am after a VERY strong deal (maybe to counteract a few really sh**ty deals in past?). :shrug:

Are you sure : Your signature would suggest otherwise :guitar3:

 

[03_4x4Runner]

If you kept the 4runner for 10 years then $1500 divided by 10 equals $150 per year more. If you can not afford that you should be looking elsewhere.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

Toyota sells more than 300,000 Camry units per year. They sell less than 50,000 4Runners. Nobody is salivating over a Camry, and there's LOTS on the lot - hence the incentive. Lots of people want a 4Runner, but there are very few of them available, hence the lack of discount. Why do you feel entitled to a $1,500 discount? Toyota can run their business however they want, and what they want to do is not offer discounts on their highly desirable vehicles. Shame on them for having business sense!

If Toyota thinks they can sell every single 4Runner on the lot without offering any incentives, then there is no reason to offer an incentive. It might take a few more weeks to sell them all, but why give a discount for no reason?

I posted earlier but there are 48 brand new 2012 4Runners within 30 miles of me... just from looking up 5 dealers I could remember off the top of my head. This obviously may not be the case everywhere, but it certainly doesn't seem like there is a lack of availability.

Beyond that point I don't remember saying I felt entitled to anything, commenting that Toyota shouldn't be allowed to run their business a certain, etc.

I understand your frustration but you have to look at it from a business viewpoint:

Toyota sells hundreds of thousands of these units yearly - just not in NA. They are called Prados everywhere else. They sell about 50-60K/yr of the 4Runners in NA. From a business viewpoint, they know NA market for full framed SUVs and they ship enough to satisfy this market but not saturate it. Because of the current Dollar/Yen conversion they do not make as much on full Japanese produced vehicles shipped here as they do elsewhere in the world. They also know that as many as they ship here they will sell with little to no discounting. So, good luck with your purchase and remember that while you don't think full price is a good deal the guy in line right behind you is fine with that. Supply and demand baby.

I will never pay MSRP, and if you do, you have more money than sense. I'm not saying that a vehicle should be given away but you should through negotiation be able to come to a mutually agreeable price. Where the dealer makes money, and you receive a good discount. Based on the number of 4Runners not moving off dealersip lots locally, the gu behnd me is just as hapy to wait as I am.

I have to agree with the previous post. Will $1500.00 really make the difference for you? If so maybe you should be looking at another vehicle.

I sold my 5 year old BMW 5 Series to jump into my new t4r and i have little regret. I knew that gas would cost more, I knew that i could buy an x5 but chose a t4r for all the same reasons everyone else here has.

If it were $1500.00 more i still would'nt have purchased a camry, mini cooper or a wrangler unlimited. I knew that the t4r was the best option for me @ 40k.

Also are you not getting at least 8% off of msrp? I got over %10, 4000.00 off of my limited.

I know you can get 3k off of an sr5.

when the dealer is into its holdback what more can you expect?

btw: i got 10k off my new tundra in 2008. maybe wait for gas prices to spike some more and maybe toyota will incentivize the less fuel efficient models in its line. then again maybe not...

Let me be clear, $1,500 is keeping us from having the financial ability to purchase... we could have already bought one. However we aren't looking for a loaded model and based on that I would like a smoking deal. There are other options for us, and while the 4Runner is top of the list there are other vehicles that would be just as capable.

My dealer wants $33,200 for a base 4x4 SR5 with only options third row and floor mats not including tax or anything else. There is still negotiating to be done...

 

[Jayhawk5G]

If you kept the 4runner for 10 years then $1500 divided by 10 equals $150 per year more. If you can not afford that you should be looking elsewhere.

I really don't want to come across as overtly rude, but this is a pretty stupid comment... This has nothing to do with what I can afford and everything to do with wanting a good deal and what I want to spend.

If you are comfortable going through life paying MSRP on everything, well a fool and his money are soon parted.

 

[nw_4Runner]

My dealer wants $33,200 for a base 4x4 SR5 with only options third row and floor mats not including tax or anything else. There is still negotiating to be done...

To get the 3rd row, *in an SR5, does your region require the premium package with addt'l options like ours does? If so, that's a $6,360 option, add in floor mats and sticker is $40,260! If you're getting down to $33,200 on that price, take it and run.

Am assuming you probably have better packages and can get the 3rd row on something more base than we can here.

 

[1engineer]

I will never pay MSRP, and if you do, you have more money than sense. I'm not saying that a vehicle should be given away but you should through negotiation be able to come to a mutually agreeable price. Where the dealer makes money, and you receive a good discount. Based on the number of 4Runners not moving off dealersip lots locally, the gu behnd me is just as hapy to wait as I am.



...

Whatever. I tried to explain the business side of a global company to maybe help you understand things but you can't get past the number of 4Runners on you local lot. Those 4unners will get sold to the guys behind you trust me.

If I want something and can afford to buy it I do. If I can't I don't. Simple. I don't get on an internet forum and complain about it though. And yes, if I want something quality I will pay for that quality even (gasp) if it means paying list price. With that said, very few pay sticker price for any vehicle and I did not. I did however pay much more than what I think a new Jeep is worth - about 35K more lol.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

To get the 3rd row, *in an SR5, does your region require the premium package with addt'l options like ours does? If so, that's a $6,360 option, add in floor mats and sticker is $40,260! If you're getting down to $33,200 on that price, take it and run.

Am assuming you probably have better packages and can get the 3rd row on something more base than we can here.

No premium package, it had cloth third row, carpted floor mats, and running boards. MSRP is $35,685. If it had premium that would be a smoking deal!

Whatever. I tried to explain the business side of a global company to maybe help you understand things but you can't get past the number of 4Runners on you local lot. Those 4unners will get sold to the guys behind you trust me.

If I want something and can afford to buy it I do. If I can't I don't. Simple. I don't get on an internet forum and complain about it though. And yes, if I want something quality I will pay for that quality even (gasp) if it means paying list price. With that said, very few pay sticker price for any vehicle and I did not. I did however pay much more than what I think a new Jeep is worth - about 35K more lol.

I have some ocean front property here in Kansas I would love to sell you... let me know if you are interested and I'll send pictures and arrange for you to send a check, lol.

Here is the business side of this:

Toyota makes vehicles, and then sells them to dealers to be re-sold. The dealers buy their new inventory and then pay interest only on the vehicle until they resell it. Most dealers want to move their prior model year inventory before purchasing new model year. Because it's in Toyota's interest to have the dealer buy more vehicles from the new model year, incentive money will be given. This is kind of like a store accepting a coupon (these are things often found in Sunday papers that allow people to save money off reasonable priced items from food to cleaning supplies, etc.) and then being reimbursed by the manufacturer. It designed to help dealers move inventory so they can buy more! So please tell me more about how a high demand for 4Runners in other parts of the world means jack in relation to the 4Runners already sitting here in the good old US of A?

 

[RubiconSS]

Hmmmm not sure why we snipe at each other but, I think it is safe to say that "Pricing" is a no win discussion.
Facts are, Folks like car dealerships a little less than lawyers and politicians. Same folks would rather sit and get a two-for-one discount on a root canal and a colonoscopy rather than visit a car dealership.
Many would only be happy if they walked in and the dealer said, "Congratulations you have won a free car" they would debate whether paying the tax was fair.
People discuss (and lie) about three(3) things How much money they make, Gas mileage and what they paid for their new car (we won't talk about the fourth thing)
If you like the vehicle and you did your homework and it seemed like a good deal - then it was.
I say leave it at that.

 

[K O]

I really don't want to come across as overtly rude, but this is a pretty stupid comment... This has nothing to do with what I can afford and everything to do with wanting a good deal and what I want to spend.

If you are comfortable going through life paying MSRP on everything, well a fool and his money are soon parted.

Do you realize you're (still) whining to people that have no ability to influence what it is you want, and who have already told you why you're not going to get what you want? Good luck.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

Hmmmm not sure why we snipe at each other but, I think it is safe to say that "Pricing" is a no win discussion.
Facts are, Folks like car dealerships a little less than lawyers and politicians. Same folks would rather sit and get a two-for-one discount on a root canal and a colonoscopy rather than visit a car dealership.
Many would only be happy if they walked in and the dealer said, "Congratulations you have won a free car" they would debate whether paying the tax was fair.
People discuss (and lie) about three(3) things How much money they make, Gas mileage and what they paid for their new car (we won't talk about the fourth thing)
If you like the vehicle and you did your homework and it seemed like a good deal - then it was.
I say leave it at that.

I snipe back because there are people on here who think wanting a good deal means you are cheap, or are such brand loyalists that they think the 4Runner is untouchable and since it was carved from metal by gods own hand we should feel lucky paying MSRP. This was not directed at you but rather replying to why I snipe back. The economy isn't great, everything costs more, so when making the largest routine purchase next to my house I take it seriously and want a good and fair deal.

Do you realize you're (still) whining to people that have no ability to influence what it is you want, and who have already told you why you're not going to get what you want? Good luck.

You can try to insult me that by making valid points I'm whining, but it makes you look foolish. I'm obviously not expecting the points I make on an internet forum to have an effect ony my car buying process, and I'm not upset with my current situation. I'm financially stable, and unlike some have the fortune to be able to wait for a good deal, I'm not in need of transportation where I'm at the mercy of the dealer.

My point which is in support of the OP is that if you are going to run a national ad campaign for Clearance Month, which depicts people literally being ripped out of their office and home because the clearance deals at Toyota are soooo good, and then go to a dealer interested in a 4Runner and find out there is literally no incentive money during clearance month you might ask the same question as the OP...

Edit: K O when I do get the price that I want, I will make sure to post