Steering Rack and Front Sway Bar Bushing Replacement

[foo]

I gave you my opinion that you're a bit over the top with this.

What's "over the top" about informing Toyota enthusiasts how to get parts that actually fit properly?

Obviously you read waaaayyyy too much into that.

I simply responded to your thoughts, line by line.
Even the line where you complained about my choice of fonts.

Funny that you think I'm beyond helping because I find that a 1mm difference in a swaybar bushing isn't that critical.

That's a funny statement when you think about it.

Certainly if I gave you a lug bolt that was 1mm too wide, it would be a problem, right?

Also, if I fixed your door window, and I adjusted it wrong such that it didn't shut, by just 1mm, it would still be a problem, right?

And, we're not talking 1mm with the bushings. That's just the ID.

We're talking about an OD that is too large to fit properly in the bracket and we're talking 5mm of slop on the endlinks.

The basic question is this:
Do you want to do the job right, or not?

Apparently, most people do the job wrong.

You know why?
a. They either don't care,
b. Or they don't know any better.

I can't fix the first reason; but, along with the OP, I can help fix the second.

I'm trying to help those people who can be helped.

It shows to me how little you really know, especially with the mention of preload. Just so you have some perspective, I have over 35years of automotive experience. I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night and did know what a swaybar was and how they work longer than a week.

Since you have far more experience in fit and "preload" than I do, what would you say the most common complaint (by far) of the polyurethane swaybar bushings is?

Then, once you come up with that answer, then ask yourself the corollary.

Could improper fit and preload have contributed to that most common complaint?

HINT: This thought question is like asking someone who installs the big-brake kit because they think their rotors "warped" if they tend to hold their foot on the pedal after a long hot stop. Bearing in mind that street brakes almost never warp, with or without the Tundra kit (and keeping in mind that almost everyone who says they do will never (and can never) prove with measurements that they did), you have to understand basic material & human behavior before you will understand why I asked you that simple preload question.

Keep in mind that I don't find what you're doing is wrong. You're just a little out of touch with the importance of the differences you're finding.

If what the OP and I were doing was wrong, we wouldn't have a dozen threads where people warned others that their bushings kit didn't fit.

All the OP and I are doing is:
1. Solving the problem that the parts we order actually fit our trucks, and,
2. Solving the problem that the manufacturers are unaware of the problem, and,
3. Then attempting to solve the problem that the lookup engines output the wrong part.

Wish us luck instead of wasting our time, because this is a daunting task but we do it because we care.

 

[99Runnr]

Look man, your going against the grain with companies who have supplied thousands of these parts to customers. Your talking about world ending catastrophic events against 1mm of sway bar bushing fitment.

You are driving a 4runner with 150k or whatever miles as your information states, you didn't even know what a sway bar was a week ago. You were driving a truck around with basically, ZERO sway bar bushing. Grasp that situation. Until it started making noises, did you suspect world ending events?

**** no you didn't. Stop making waves because we aren't putting in cancer curing research as to why 1mm difference in bushings isn't front page news. 20 year old trucks with 200k miles is probably near average on here. We are serious where it's necessary, like OEM balljoints over cheap aftermarket where they are known to fail. Did you know that? Did you replace yours at 150k? Those are CERTAIN to fail and kill polar bears before the sway bar bushings will.

Plus there is only so much concern for minuscule tolerance differences on a bushing that isn't nearly as crucial as you make it out to be. If you wanted to learn what you were working on, stop spending 10 hours reading, typing, telling people who know what sway bars and their functions have been before you learned 2 days ago. Someone who worries about stuff like you should honestly probably not be in a vehicle this old/high mileage. Your gonna worry yourself into a ****ing aneurysm.

 

[foo]

Look man, your going against the grain with companies who have supplied thousands of these parts to customers. Your talking about world ending catastrophic events against 1mm of sway bar bushing fitment.

What do you have against putting properly fitting parts in your truck?

You are driving a 4runner with 150k or whatever miles as your information states, you didn't even know what a sway bar was a week ago. You were driving a truck around with basically, ZERO sway bar bushing. Grasp that situation. Until it started making noises, did you suspect world ending events?

It's not my truck by the way, but that doesn't matter.

I was asked to fix it, and I am going to fix it properly.

Even if it's old.

If YOU don't care to fix your truck properly just because it's old, then that is your issue (and, that's an issue I can't solve).

**** no you didn't. Stop making waves because we aren't putting in cancer curing research as to why 1mm difference in bushings isn't front page news. 20 year old trucks with 200k miles is probably near average on here.

If you don't care about fitment, that's fine.
But this thread is about how to do the job right.

And fitment is part of doing the job right.

We are serious where it's necessary, like OEM balljoints over cheap aftermarket where they are known to fail. Did you know that? Did you replace yours at 150k? Those are CERTAIN to fail and kill polar bears before the sway bar bushings will.

I am forced to wonder if you're actually anywhere near as 'serious' as you claim, simply because you don't seem to be able to handle details, such as the difference between an ID and an OD, or the decimal-place difference between -0.5mm and +5mm of slop.

Plus there is only so much concern for minuscule tolerance differences on a bushing that isn't nearly as crucial as you make it out to be. If you wanted to learn what you were working on, stop spending 10 hours reading, typing, telling people who know what sway bars and their functions have been before you learned 2 days ago. Someone who worries about stuff like you should honestly probably not be in a vehicle this old/high mileage. Your gonna worry yourself into a ****ing aneurysm.

Am I?
Or are you?

 

[99Runnr]

So let me get this straight. It's my vocabulary now. Are you one of those guys who try and correct a words spelling? We are talking trucks and bushings, do you want me to get out my fancy words booklet for you? Don't insult my intelligence or mechanical aptitude, you did not KNOW WHAT A SWAY BAR WAS just days ago.

You might be a keyboard genius, but your a mechanical retard. I am a machinist on the side and 10 years experience. Now your grasping at ID and OD remarks on a bushing? Are you aware that energy suspension bushings come with a new cradle that matches the bushing OUTER DIAMETER? So regardless, the 1mm argument is this serious for you.

My truck has been built, repaired, and maintained by me. I'm a backyard mechanic, but I have never insulted someone after making soccer mom comments mechanically. "My truck goes bang bang and I found this on the ground, help what is it?". Case and point why you need to shut your mouth, I gave you points of practical concerns on these trucks. Your too set on being right to realize your already licking a clean window here.

I'll PM you next time I need tips on buying a minivan.

 

[foo]

So let me get this straight. It's my vocabulary now. Are you one of those guys who try and correct a words spelling? We are talking trucks and bushings, do you want me to get out my fancy words booklet for you? Don't insult my intelligence or mechanical aptitude, you did not KNOW WHAT A SWAY BAR WAS just days ago.

What do you have against the attempt by the OP and me to get the word out that there IS a single parts kit that fits properly, and that we should strive to get the suppliers to fix their parts kits and lookup engines?

I don't see how anything you've posted in this thread adds on-topic value, but I'm a courteous fellow - so - if you took the time to write on the forum for all to see - I'll take the time to read and respond to your efforts.

You might be a keyboard genius, but your a mechanical retard.

I think that's very funny.
You probably don't even realize why.

I am a machinist on the side and 10 years experience. Now your grasping at ID and OD remarks on a bushing?

What kind of machinist has absolutely no grasp of detail, particularly in the placement of a decimal point?

And, how does you "claiming" to be a machinist add value to this thread anyway?

Are you aware that energy suspension bushings come with a new cradle that matches the bushing OUTER DIAMETER? So regardless, the 1mm argument is this serious for you.

Are you aware that you can buy custom swaybar body brackets with 90-degree zerk fittings:
Aftermarket Universal Sway Bar Bushings | Polyurethane and Rubber | by Size

What does that have to do with the fact that some kits come with endlink bushings that are over 5 mm too large?

The most-often recommended kits are the wrong size.
That's all I'm saying.

Somehow that bothers you so much that you feel you must attempt to add value by negating that message (and claiming to be a machinist, as the reason you negate that message).

My truck has been built, repaired, and maintained by me. I'm a backyard mechanic, but I have never insulted someone after making soccer mom comments mechanically. "My truck goes bang bang and I found this on the ground, help what is it?". Case and point why you need to shut your mouth, I gave you points of practical concerns on these trucks. Your too set on being right to realize your already licking a clean window here.

I'll PM you next time I need tips on buying a minivan.

Let me ask you something very simple.
I have been trying to add value to this thread.
Are you?

 

[99Runnr]

Does being a grammar nazi pertain to this thread? I figured you would try and find something to nitpick, just as you've done to anyone who questioned your persistence on this matter. I'm not going to battle the autocorrect on my cell phone to produce grammatical perfection for you, in regards to a bushing on a 20 year old truck.

That is the kinda superiority complex your exhibiting here. Your fighting a battle that doesn't need fought. If someone doesn't agree, your now proclaiming we just don't care, we can't repair on your level and we are half asses. No, it's quite honestly not important enough to put in this much effort for. That's all, as I already pegged you, you have to be right.

Apply that towards one of the common issues with these trucks that could USE IMPROVEMENT. Otherwise, the energy suspension components I used, fit tightly, front sway bar, rear sway bar. Also, my endlink bushings fit tightly.

I'm not getting all worked up. If you were closer I'd invite you over to my garage. You could give me grammar lessons and I could point at parts laying around and tell you what they were. It would be a great learning experience for the both of us.

That's all, this was mildly amusing while I painted my tube bumper, but it's getting installed now. So, recess is over for me, back to the books.

 

[Scramble]

Foo,
I can't wait to see how you react when you order an AOR front bumper & the bolt holes don't line up exactly. Poor Scotty...LOL :bounce:

PS: I tried to warn you nicely 2 days ago that you were beating this into the ground. One thread on this is fine, replying to 10 different threads is ridiculous.

 

[GrassFed]

This thread has turned childish real fast.

Keep on keeping on, if you want to find a part that fits correctly that's on you to do and good for you for going at it.

Thanks for looking into the fitment situation and taking the time to post about it. If, by some miracle, for every 10 posts of people giving their opinions we had 1 guy posting about his experiences and installations we'd have every DIY perfected by now.

c'mon guys we're all in this for the same general reasons. Let's keep it going

 

[foo]

Does being a grammar nazi pertain to this thread? I figured you would try and find something to nitpick, just as you've done to anyone who questioned your persistence on this matter. I'm not going to battle the autocorrect on my cell phone to produce grammatical perfection for you, in regards to a bushing on a 20 year old truck.

C'mon. You called me a retard, but, in doing so, you (repeatedly) misspelled one of the most common words in the English language.

You made me smile; clearly you must also see the humor in that, as I do.

That is the kinda superiority complex your exhibiting here. Your fighting a battle that doesn't need fought.

Do you think "I" am the only one fighting this battle to get you the right parts?

HINT: Read the OP's posts.

If someone doesn't agree, your now proclaiming we just don't care, we can't repair on your level and we are half asses. No, it's quite honestly not important enough to put in this much effort for. That's all, as I already pegged you, you have to be right.

I asked you twice already (in the other thread) to simply snap a picture of your bushings in situ, but you haven't done so even though you're working on the truck as we type.

It would be valuable to everyone here to see what the Autozone parts kit looks like, especially for the swaybar body bushings, which are apparently larger than those that fit more properly.

Apply that towards one of the common issues with these trucks that could USE IMPROVEMENT. Otherwise, the energy suspension components I used, fit tightly, front sway bar, rear sway bar. Also, my endlink bushings fit tightly.

It would be nice to see a picture of the body bushing fitment, so that we can learn from your efforts.

I'm not getting all worked up. If you were closer I'd invite you over to my garage. You could give me grammar lessons and I could point at parts laying around and tell you what they were. It would be a great learning experience for the both of us.

I have a lot of parts lying around myself, since I drive an E39 bimmer and I ride a K1200, where, as you may know, BMW designs about 20 things to constantly break (so we stock up ahead of time).

That's all, this was mildly amusing while I painted my tube bumper, but it's getting installed now. So, recess is over for me, back to the books.

I am a courteous fellow. I simply respond to your issues.
What would be useful for everyone is for you to snap a picture of the fitment of the body swaybar bushing.

Here's what the OEM fitment looks like for the driver's side:

 

[csp]

Someone doesn't know when to stop digging when they've hit bottom. I'm sure foo will break these two sentences apart into a multi-paragraph reply that nobody will read because they just don't GAFF!

 

[foo]

This thread has turned childish real fast.

I agree with you on those childish posters.

They need to look at his thread, and see where they tried to lead it astray. I responded to them, as a courtesy to them, and I addressed each of their issues, but, by responding to them, this thread has far more unrelated information in it than it needed.

There is still necessary work to be done, such as determining whether ALL the 3rd-generation 4Runners have the same fitment issue, or whether it's just some of the 4runners, such as that of the OP and others.

Keep on keeping on, if you want to find a part that fits correctly that's on you to do and good for you for going at it.

You can help us here.

As you know, the OP and I have already determined which are most likely the correct parts, but some of the suppliers seem patently unaware of the issues.

And, to be fair, the issues may not occur in all 3rd-generation 4Runners.

So, a lot more work is involved than simply buying the right parts.

If that was my only goal, I'd be out of here long ago, and I wouldn't be trying to cross reference threads so that everyone can get the complete picture in their searches.

The effort is in joining with the request of the OP to get the suppliers and lookup engines to supply others with the right parts.

And, we still need a way to MEASURE accurately, without tearing apart the sway bar and endlinks just to measure, and then to resort to putting the old rotten parts temporarily back on afterward.

Do you have an idea for how best to measure the swaybar and endlink diameters AT the bushing? The method I selected was the midpoint, but that may not be the best way.

How would YOU suggest we measure this critical parameter?

Thanks for looking into the fitment situation and taking the time to post about it. If, by some miracle, for every 10 posts of people giving their opinions we had 1 guy posting about his experiences and installations we'd have every DIY perfected by now.

You should be able to tell from my formatting and picture uploads that I am extremely familiar with automotive forums, and I am extremely familiar with the proper way to crosslink threads so that a single search finds the needed information.

You may note that there is the classic way to deal with those childish trolls, which is to never argue with them, but those childish trolls will ruin a thread whether or not you respond to them - so my approach is to always respond so that they learn NOT to troll in threads that I care about.

They can perform their childish antics on other threads that I don't care about.

c'mon guys we're all in this for the same general reasons. Let's keep it going

Bear in mind that the strategy is to prevent those childish trolls from ruining the value of any thread they post to, which is THEIR GOAL. My tactic is to confront those childish trolls head on. Does it work? Maybe.

If you ignore them, they'll ruin the thread. If you confront them, they'll ruin the thread. That's the nature of those trolls. You can only respond to them, or not.

Anyway, trolls aside, the goal is clearly to:
1. Determine the correct fitment (this is not accomplished yet)
2. Determine the correct kit (and what's not the correct kit!)
3. Inform the suppliers of the correct fitment
4. Get those suppliers to FIX their kits
5. Then get the lookup engines (e.g., at Autozone) to fix their code
6. And, at the same time, crosslink to all relevant threads so anyone who looks it up here, gets the right answer the first time, no matter what thread they read.

Help us in that effort, and you add value.
If folks don't want to help, then there's no need to post childish antics.

99Runnr, for example, can help everyone by posting a picture of his fitment, since he used the Autozone kit which the OP and I would probably deprecate.

Anyone else can help by opining on how a 4runner owner can determine their sway bar diameter and endlink diameter AT THE BUSHING without having to tear it down temporarily, just to put it back together with the old rotten bushings.

Does my midpoint measurement technique hold up, for example?

 

[foo]

Someone doesn't know when to stop digging when they've hit bottom. I'm sure foo will break these two sentences apart into a multi-paragraph reply that nobody will read because they just don't GAFF!

I realize you're a troll, and trolls will troll no matter what; but you must realize that my tactic is to confront trolls head on (the strategy being so that they'll go away).

If you think you're not a troll, simply ask yourself what value your post above adds to the thread.

 

[foo]

Foo,
I can't wait to see how you react when you order an AOR front bumper & the bolt holes don't line up exactly. Poor Scotty...LOL :bounce:

I respond to everyone who responds to me.
It's a tactic (to be responsive) that I've learned from being on many forums, where the strategy is to find out things together that can't be found out alone.

BTW, since I own both an E39 and a K1200, I'm very familiar with parts that have diabolical fitments. You can't even take off something as simple as an FSR or VANOS without wondering what those Germans were thinking.

Luckily, this issue is extremely simple.
It's just an issue of collective knowledge.

You can help in that effort.

One way you can help is to MEASURE the midpoint diameter of both your swaybar and your endlinks, and REPORT back here what you found (as I did).

If a few of us did that, as I have done, then we could get a better idea if this misfit problem is a general 3rd-generation issue or just an issue for specific setups.

PS: I tried to warn you nicely 2 days ago that you were beating this into the ground. One thread on this is fine, replying to 10 different threads is ridiculous.

You'll notice I respond in kind.

My strategy is to be a responsive poster (and my tactics are to confront trolls head on with the goal that they go away).

As you recall, I patiently explained to you, just as nicely as you explained to me, that since a key goal was to ensure that everyone who searches finds the right answer, that crosslinking was the typical courteous thing to do for people who care that others find the right information more easily than I did.

You may not care that everyone gets the right answer, but I do.

 

[99Runnr]

II have supplied a photo as well as part number in the other thread. There is about 10 now, so let me specify it's the one where he found a "greasy rubber thing on the ground".

Thanks for the humor. I'm gonna sue Samsung for this lackluster autocorrect now.

 

[foo]

II have supplied a photo as well as part number in the other thread. There is about 10 now, so let me specify it's the one where he found a "greasy rubber thing on the ground".

Thanks for that picture and the satirical comedy in your response on that thread.
I reproduce the photo below so folks reading this thread can get the picture.
I'll respond, in detail, in that thread.

Thanks for the humor. I'm gonna sue Samsung for this lackluster autocorrect now.

PS: Since you brought it up, while you're at it, besides suing Samsung for their "your" versus "you're" mistakes - also sue Samsung for not knowing the difference between "lay" and "lie".

 

[csp]

asIf you think you're not a troll, simply ask yourself what value your post above adds to the thread.

You stated earlier why you can't understand why people have overlooked the fitment issue and I gave you my opinion of why I believe it happens.

There was no need to pick apart and reply to every sentence. There was no need to dispute my opinion or to disagree with it. Since you have stated your position on multiple threads with the same information we clearly understand your position. At the same time you have your opinion, others have every right to theirs as well. You don't have to respond to someone just because their opinion differs from yours. What about that don't you get?

It's not your duty or your right to try to force it down our throats if we disagree. Good god man, give it a rest already, we understand your position on the matter.

With that said, I'm quite sure that you won't be able to give it a rest. As someone else mentioned, you're one of those guys that just has to be right and has to have the last word. I'm done banging my head against the wall with you.

 

[foo]

You stated earlier why you can't understand why people have overlooked the fitment issue and I gave you my opinion of why I believe it happens.

There was no need to pick apart and reply to every sentence. There was no need to dispute my opinion or to disagree with it. Since you have stated your position on multiple threads with the same information we clearly understand your position. At the same time you have your opinion, others have every right to theirs as well. You don't have to respond to someone just because their opinion differs from yours. What about that don't you get?

It's not your duty or your right to try to force it down our throats if we disagree. Good god man, give it a rest already, we understand your position on the matter.

With that said, I'm quite sure that you won't be able to give it a rest. As someone else mentioned, you're one of those guys that just has to be right and has to have the last word. I'm done banging my head against the wall with you.

What measurements did you get at the swaybar midpoint and endlink midpoint for your 4runner?

 

[99Runnr]

Engage the thread lock.

I think there is only one troll at this point.

 

[mtbtim]

Man, what happened to my thread. @foo, while I do appreciate your tenacity in finding a sway bar bushing kit that will be the right fit for our 3rd Gen 4runners you need to listen to all these guys commenting on your posts. Dude, you are over the top on your posts. You're really trying too hard. The feeling I've gotten from being a member of this forum is the guys who contribute are pretty cool mellow dudes. If they're telling you you're over the top, you probably are. If you're getting into pissing matches with them, you need to reevaluate how your behaving on this forum.

All you need to do is present your information, and then let people decide what they're going to do with it. If someone doesn't agree with you, oh well. If people have a question, answer it for them to the best of your ability. It's not hard to get along on this forum. The fact that you're obviously struggling to get along should be telling you something.

Take a deep breath and relax. We're just a bunch of dudes who love our 3rd Generation 4runners. We like talking about them, fixing them, modifying them, wheeling in them and traveling in them.

 

[infamousRNR]

i couldn't find the right bushings so i used a skateboard truck bushings and installed that! works great! so much flex now!