Stock suspension equivalent?

[dirteater4]

I've heard nothing but bad reviews from moog springs. How old are yours?[/QUOTE]

They were great for 25K miles. Fit was perfect and ride felt stock to me. I run OME now because of my lift.

 

[Wjktdi]

Kyb

I've used KYB shocks on everything from a '71 VW Bus to 2002 F150, I've only had one gas shock fail and it was replaced no questions asked. They are an OE supplier to Toyota, Nissan and Honda in Japan. I just bought Mono Max all the way around for my 99 4Runner, I hope to find the time to put them on when I get back from the SEMA Show.

 

[xcmtb83]

I threw some used '99s on the rear of my '96 just to restore the height. I ended up with a 1/2" of rake front to back on both sides. I also added a 10mm and a 5mm trim packer to the driver side rear.

 

[1985taylor1925]

What exactly did hate about the KYB's?

What was your intent in replacing them? like OP's goal, just a stock replacement?

If you really want stock performance, for the rears why don't you get OEM, its 65 dollars instead of 40 dollars on amazon... I'm sure you can find it cheaper http://www.amazon.com/Toyota-48531-80692-Shock-Absorber/dp/B00KTK15PU/ . I went straight to aftermarket because I didn't think OEM was so cheap, but 55-65 dollars is pretty cheap. Does KYB or other companies signifncantly offer better performance? Or is the topic now on springs now?

I say this because mechanic said our rear shock sheered off and we are looking for a replacement ASAP.

To help both OP and me. Those with KYB shocks, how similar are they to stock shocks, 5-10%+-? OP, if that is the case, then ask yourself is that good enough for you?

I really wish reviews for shocks have a rating system, softer and harder compare to stock etc. Would make hunting for shocks way easier....

I disliked them because they felt really stif to me. I ran them with my original coils, so I know the coils weren't the issue. Admittedly I had a bad steering rack at the time, so that may have been half the issue. Objectively if I tried them now that I have all new front end parts I might have a better opinion of them

 

[1985taylor1925]

You are correct that they were progressive rates and they were NICE. Too bad they don't make them for 3rd Gens. People always asked me if that truck was lifted and I'd say "no, it's just not sagging" lol.

I read a few reviews on Amazon from people who put the 2nd gen progressive moog coils on their 3rd gens and said they worked very well. The second gen coils are shorter and stiffer, but apparently they restored original ride height, according to those two individuals, and rode well.

Op, in your first post you asked what people do for the front coils, and for factory ride and height there aren't very many good options. Oem, moog, acdelco, Gabriel, sensen, and a few others. But they all seem equally low quality. 95% of members on this forum have some form of lift, and have few opinions on coils fot stock ride height. The vast majority will say oem 99 coils.

Nissanh on the forum runs 1st gen Tacoma coils on his 4Runner, and he says they make it ride like a Lexus. The Tacoma coils are the only progressive stock-ish height coils that work on our trucks.

 

[RoyBell]

I read a few reviews on Amazon from people who put the 2nd gen progressive moog coils on their 3rd gens and said they worked very well. The second gen coils are shorter and stiffer, but apparently they restored original ride height, according to those two individuals, and rode well.

Op, in your first post you asked what people do for the front coils, and for factory ride and height there aren't very many good options. Oem, moog, acdelco, Gabriel, sensen, and a few others. But they all seem equally low quality. 95% of members on this forum have some form of lift, and have few opinions on coils fot stock ride height. The vast majority will say oem 99 coils.

Nissanh on the forum runs 1st gen Tacoma coils on his 4Runner, and he says they make it ride like a Lexus. The Tacoma coils are the only progressive stock-ish height coils that work on our trucks.

I will have to check that out. I can't believe they would put a non-progressive spring stock on a TRUCK. Something that will likely be loaded more times than none. Do you know if he put them front and back?

Lexus ride sounds good to me

I realize finding OEM is hard because everyone wants lifts. Some of use would like to retain driveability. I put 2K on the 4R in the month since I got it, and that's rotating between 2 other cars. So, I do drive quite a bit.

 

[RoyBell]

Looks like he took the front struts off a 2000 Tacoma and used 99 coils in the rear.

To buy new, that gets pricey in a hurry.

$115: 48131-AD050 SPRING, FRONT COIL, LH

$115: 48131-AD030 SPRING, FRONT COIL, RH

 

[xcmtb83]

I will have to check that out. I can't believe they would put a non-progressive spring stock on a TRUCK. Something that will likely be loaded more times than none. Do you know if he put them front and back?

Lexus ride sounds good to me

I realize finding OEM is hard because everyone wants lifts. Some of use would like to retain driveability. I put 2K on the 4R in the month since I got it, and that's rotating between 2 other cars. So, I do drive quite a bit.

1st gen Tacos are leaf sprung in the rear.

 

[1985taylor1925]

I will have to check that out. I can't believe they would put a non-progressive spring stock on a TRUCK. Something that will likely be loaded more times than none. Do you know if he put them front and back?

Lexus ride sounds good to me

I realize finding OEM is hard because everyone wants lifts. Some of use would like to retain driveability. I put 2K on the 4R in the month since I got it, and that's rotating between 2 other cars. So, I do drive quite a bit.

Looks like he took the front struts off a 2000 Tacoma and used 99 coils in the rear.

To buy new, that gets pricey in a hurry.

$115: 48131-AD050 SPRING, FRONT COIL, LH

$115: 48131-AD030 SPRING, FRONT COIL, RH

My 4runner is my daily driver and commuter as well, and I also want to retain a good on-rode ride. I love driving for the experience of driving and exploring. And most of my excursions in WI stay on the road, or mild trails.

I've actually gone through 5 different suspension set ups, both front and back, over the past 5 years. I've gone from the typical 3 inch lift, down to my current 1 inch lift, to get better on road driving dynamics. The lifts are just too stiff for stock weight, and they cause a lot of problems in the front end unless you spend the money to do everything right (diff drop, cv's with extended boots, aftermarket uca's, end links, panhard bracket, etc). I have searched and searched for a good option for progressive coils for our 3rd gens that retain near stock height. And the only options are those taco coils for the front, and then 2nd gen 4runner moog coils for the rear. Other than that, there are many progressive coils, but they are all 2"+ lifts, and have higher spring rates than the oem coils.

A few months ago I was looking into a company that will build custom progressive coils for any application. I wanted a progressive coil with spring rates between 475lbs and 550lbs, that sat an inch above stock height. But of course they required a minimum order of like ten pairs of the coils. And they would have cost nearly $2K for front and rear pairs from what I recall. Not an option.

You can get a used set of Taco coils/struts on ebay. Last time I checked there were three sets for sale. The only issue nissanh mentioned was that they sat kind of low, probably equivalent to 2002 stock height. So he added a 1" front spacer. My eventual plan is to get a used set of the Taco progressive coils, and put them on the middle setting of my 5100s. That should preload them enough to put them about an inch above stock height, and still have the progressive aspect of the coil

 

[RoyBell]

You can get a used set of Taco coils/struts on ebay. Last time I checked there were three sets for sale. The only issue nissanh mentioned was that they sat kind of low, probably equivalent to 2002 stock height. So he added a 1" front spacer. My eventual plan is to get a used set of the Taco progressive coils, and put them on the middle setting of my 5100s. That should preload them enough to put them about an inch above stock height, and still have the progressive aspect of the coil

What are the chances the springs were just tired and sagged naturally?

I think I am going to go with OEM springs and KYB shocks.

Thoughts? I am tired of reading. I would assume OEM rear springs should give me plenty of run time before they sag again. Sounds like the Tacoma fronts will sit too low for the 99 rear coils.

 

[1985taylor1925]

What are the chances the springs were just tired and sagged naturally?

I think I am going to go with OEM springs and KYB shocks.

Thoughts? I am tired of reading. I would assume OEM rear springs should give me plenty of run time before they sag again. Sounds like the Tacoma fronts will sit too low for the 99 rear coils.

For nissanh, probably a combination of a little wear on the coils, and the fact that the Taco coils are a bit softer than 3rd gen coils. However they are also taller. I think a brand new set of the Taco progressive coils would sit right around the same height as the 99 coils. I dont know that for certain though. The 3rd gen 4runner and 1st gen Taco have the same front end, so the wight should basically be identical.

But yeah, going with 99 coils with KYBs all around would be the quick, simple, cheap and effective way to replace everything and be done thinking about it, and should last for years to come. Monroe oespectrum would also be a good oem equivalent shock. From everything Ive read people really like them.

 

[fblainen11]

My wife's 2000 4Runner with stock shocks are worlds better than my KYB Gas a justs.

I am actually looking to get AWAY from the KYB because the ride is so harsh.
Haven't made my mind up yet....but can't stand the harsh KYB ride.

 

[1985taylor1925]

My wife's 2000 4Runner with stock shocks are worlds better than my KYB Gas a justs.

I am actually looking to get AWAY from the KYB because the ride is so harsh.
Haven't made my mind up yet....but can't stand the harsh KYB ride.

This was EXACTLY my impression of the KYBs, and why I said i hated them. The vast majority of people who run them seem to like them and believe they are a great oem replacement. I found them to be horribly stiff and jarring. And I had brand new oem coils on my 98, so my coils were not the issue. They just didnt seem to be valved properly for the light weight of the 4runner

 

[RoyBell]

For nissanh, probably a combination of a little wear on the coils, and the fact that the Taco coils are a bit softer than 3rd gen coils. However they are also taller. I think a brand new set of the Taco progressive coils would sit right around the same height as the 99 coils. I dont know that for certain though. The 3rd gen 4runner and 1st gen Taco have the same front end, so the wight should basically be identical.

But yeah, going with 99 coils with KYBs all around would be the quick, simple, cheap and effective way to replace everything and be done thinking about it, and should last for years to come. Monroe oespectrum would also be a good oem equivalent shock. From everything Ive read people really like them.

I think getting tacoma springs to match 4runner isn't as cut and dry because of the differences in the rear. I would be willing to try it out but it sounds like I would have to disassemble the strut and put a spacer at the top to compensate, which isn't something I want to do. The mount it all up and take it apart and reassemble part.

 

[nissanh]

Hi,
I PM'd you.
With the tacoma progressive springs and Bilstein shocks (all toyota factory came for TRD off road package) gives you a car like suspension to the front. I can simply use two fingers on the front grill guard and bounce the front end.
I have experienced heavy breaking from 75 MPH to stand still in less than 2 seconds on I-20 thanks to a uncivilized driver from Canada. The truck came to a full stop in that short period of time and it handled the situation without any major issues.
I think I am very happy with the front suspension and the braking power of the factory 4runner calipers (with OEM brake pads)

 

[1985taylor1925]

I think getting tacoma springs to match 4runner isn't as cut and dry because of the differences in the rear. I would be willing to try it out but it sounds like I would have to disassemble the strut and put a spacer at the top to compensate, which isn't something I want to do. The mount it all up and take it apart and reassemble part.

The 4x4 extended cab Taco weighs the same as the 4runner, and the four door weights a little more, so I don't see there being any issues with the coils sagging under the 4runner weight.

Regardless, You'll have to assemble the front coil/struts with any combo you go with. Or pay a shop to do it. So I wouldn't be concerned about that part. As far as the spacer, if you did have to use a spacer, you would want to use a top hat spacer, in which case you don't need to disassemble the coil/strut. The spacer simply goes between the top of the assembly and frame mount. It doesn't add any preload to the coils, and wont change the ride dynamics in any way, unless you get up to a 2" or more spacer.

There are also preload spacers (which you are thinking of) that go in the coil/strut assembly and add preload to the coils. I would never use a preload spacer, nor would anyone else who understands how they work.

For the top hat spacer you just remove the top 3 nuts, and use the bottle jack to create a gap between the top of the coil assembly and frame mount, then add the spacer. Pretty simple.

Anyways, I understand not wanting to experiment with the suspension. For you, 99 coils would probably be a good route. I love experimenting with suspension set-ups (Ive gone through 5 set-ups, front and back), and would certainly be willing to try the taco coils. But as of now, I am unemployed after becoming chronically ill months ago and loosing my job. I will have to wait to get my health back and get back to work before spending the money

 

[1985taylor1925]

Hi,
I PM'd you.
With the tacoma progressive springs and Bilstein shocks (all toyota factory came for TRD off road package) gives you a car like suspension to the front. I can simply use two fingers on the front grill guard and bounce the front end.
I have experienced heavy breaking from 75 MPH to stand still in less than 2 seconds on I-20 thanks to a uncivilized driver from Canada. The truck came to a full stop in that short period of time and it handled the situation without any major issues.
I think I am very happy with the front suspension and the braking power of the factory 4runner calipers (with OEM brake pads)

I remember you showing me a picture of your truck with the Taco set-up. And from what I remember youre running a 1" top spacer?

Maybe you could post a picture of your truck here to show Roybell how it sits, in the case that he is interested in trying this set-up.

 

[RoyBell]

Hi,
I PM'd you.
With the tacoma progressive springs and Bilstein shocks (all toyota factory came for TRD off road package) gives you a car like suspension to the front. I can simply use two fingers on the front grill guard and bounce the front end.
I have experienced heavy breaking from 75 MPH to stand still in less than 2 seconds on I-20 thanks to a uncivilized driver from Canada. The truck came to a full stop in that short period of time and it handled the situation without any major issues.
I think I am very happy with the front suspension and the braking power of the factory 4runner calipers (with OEM brake pads)

Thanks for the reply. I am a little concerned since you put a strut/spring setup on with 140K miles. A brand new spring will probably be a little taller. Not sure how much. Also, the shock likely was a little worn as well with that many miles (I have 160K on my truck) which probably softened up over time as well.

The 4x4 extended cab Taco weighs the same as the 4runner, and the four door weights a little more, so I don't see there being any issues with the coils sagging under the 4runner weight.

Regardless, You'll have to assemble the front coil/struts with any combo you go with. Or pay a shop to do it. So I wouldn't be concerned about that part. As far as the spacer, if you did have to use a spacer, you would want to use a top hat spacer, in which case you don't need to disassemble the coil/strut. The spacer simply goes between the top of the assembly and frame mount. It doesn't add any preload to the coils, and wont change the ride dynamics in any way, unless you get up to a 2" or more spacer.

There are also preload spacers (which you are thinking of) that go in the coil/strut assembly and add preload to the coils. I would never use a preload spacer, nor would anyone else who understands how they work.

For the top hat spacer you just remove the top 3 nuts, and use the bottle jack to create a gap between the top of the coil assembly and frame mount, then add the spacer. Pretty simple.

Anyways, I understand not wanting to experiment with the suspension. For you, 99 coils would probably be a good route. I love experimenting with suspension set-ups (Ive gone through 5 set-ups, front and back), and would certainly be willing to try the taco coils. But as of now, I am unemployed after becoming chronically ill months ago and loosing my job. I will have to wait to get my health back and get back to work before spending the money

I meant the fact that the springs/shocks on the tacoma were paired with a leaf spring in the rear. I can only assume they had progressive springs because the tacoma would have more load than a 4runner would ever see. Plus the nature of a leaf spring being progressive as well.

Generally the TRD package makes the suspension a bit stiffer than their regular counterparts. You are correct I was talking about the pre-load spacers. I didn't know they made a spacer for above the strut. I may consider the Tacoma springs and see how the act with OEM shocks. I think New tacoma springs and new tacoma shocks (bilstein) will result in a stiffer ride than I am looking for. How much, I can't say. The fact that Nissanh is happy with his, has me concerned how they will react when new, pair with new rear springs.

I had adjustable shocks on my Transam. You could adjust the pre-load/damper rate, and the height. It was great. You could set soft around town and stiff at the track. Best of both worlds. They were pricey from memory though.

 

[1985taylor1925]

Thanks for the reply. I am a little concerned since you put a strut/spring setup on with 140K miles. A brand new spring will probably be a little taller. Not sure how much. Also, the shock likely was a little worn as well with that many miles (I have 160K on my truck) which probably softened up over time as well.



I meant the fact that the springs/shocks on the tacoma were paired with a leaf spring in the rear. I can only assume they had progressive springs because the tacoma would have more load than a 4runner would ever see. Plus the nature of a leaf spring being progressive as well.

Generally the TRD package makes the suspension a bit stiffer than their regular counterparts. You are correct I was talking about the pre-load spacers. I didn't know they made a spacer for above the strut. I may consider the Tacoma springs and see how the act with OEM shocks. I think New tacoma springs and new tacoma shocks (bilstein) will result in a stiffer ride than I am looking for. How much, I can't say. The fact that Nissanh is happy with his, has me concerned how they will react when new, pair with new rear springs.

I had adjustable shocks on my Transam. You could adjust the pre-load/damper rate, and the height. It was great. You could set soft around town and stiff at the track. Best of both worlds. They were pricey from memory though.

Only shock option that does that on our trucks is the rancho rs9000, which has 9 adjustment settings. That's the shock I plan on getting eventually. Strangely I haven't found a single member on the forum that has used the rancho on a 3rd gen.

 

[RoyBell]

I ordered new OEM shocks, off Ebay. Seller claimed they are OEM from Toyota. Comes with bushings and nuts. I will have to inspect carefully to confirm before mounting.

$300 shipped with tax.

KYBs were about $85 less. For $85, I am not going to beat my head against the wall wondering if the stock shocks are better or not. We know the OEM last to 150K miles.

Springs will be 99 in the back. Front, still debating on Tacoma or 4R. I am a little concerned putting progressive springs up front without them in the back. Thoughts?

Sellers spring prices were more than you could buy through an online retailer which has me concerned. How can his shocks be less, and springs almost double?