Stuck FIAMM horns

[RyanC]

Heading down the mountain on Christmas Eve on I-70 when a much too neighborly Suburban decides that he wants to use three feet of my lane in addition to his own. Naturally my first reaction is to hit the horn - luckily because I did the FIAMM upgrade a number of months ago he hears them loud and clear.

Unfortunately they end up sticking in the on position and he gets much more horn then he deserves (although not too much more). So I drive to the next exit with the horn blaring and it stops when I apply the brake. Coincidentally I was on my way to the dealer for the 20k service (have to take advantage of being in civilization whenever I can) so I asked them to take a look at it.

Of course because of the 'after market horns' they say that they think it is probably a short but that they'll have to charge to troubleshoot it and fix it. Rather than pay them I say I'll take care of it. So fast forward to today, I double checked all of the connections and everything appears to be in order. However, the problem still exists . . . if I hit the horn it goes non-stop until I stop and re-start the car.

I did the horn upgrade maybe six month ago with no problems (including using the horns). I installed the Bud Built winch plate and Warn Winch last weekend, but other than that I haven't done anything to the truck.

Before I pay good money to have a professional look at it, does anyone have any ideas what is going on here?

 

[Antman]

How bout some more info? Did you use a relay for the horns, or just splice into the factory wiring?

 

[Jtraskell]

If you still have the OEM horn, for a quick check, plug it back in and see if it does the same thing. Then you will know if it is the truck, or the horn. Just a thought. Be safe.

 

[Titanpat57]

Damn......


I knew I shouldn't have thrown that relay out.....


:dammit:












Sounds like a short, make sure you have a dedicated ground:hatsoff:

 

[philsey]

Your (brake) symptoms make it sound like somethings off with the car's logic. WAG would be related to having 2 horns vs the oem single one.

Do they both stick, or just one? Perhaps try disconnecting one Fiamm for awhile?

I've had two since the day I brought mine home with no probs.

I'd bet you can find an oem horn in our classifieds, for troubleshooting. You just know someone like Antman saves all that old stuff.

 

[Okki]

My LMTD had two OEM horns; not sure if the TE/SR5 does, but I would think that component is the same between models. I replaced my horns with Hella 118db dual tone horns and did not use the relay.

The relay (as I understand it) is to make sure the horns get the same amount of power so they don't "distort" while you hang on the button and flip off the other driver. It is also supposed to protect the electrical system going back into the vehicle. I'm no electrical engineer, so Anyone please correct me as needed.

Sound to me you may need to A) check the connections to see you are not creating a short and B) add the relay. If you tossed it, you can pick up a new one at your local auto supply store (O'Reilly has a good selection).

As Antman said; some more details would be nice; possible some pics of your installation/connections.

Okki

 

[RyanC]

How bout some more info? Did you use a relay for the horns, or just splice into the factory wiring?

Yeah, suppose some more details would help. Sorry about that.

My TE just had the single OEM horn which I just swapped out for the dual Fiamms. I wired it straight in there without using the relay. I don't think I save the relay but I do have the OEM one that I could swap back in if need be.

A bad ground does sound like a likely culprit. They worked fine until they were moved (just rotated on same mounting location) when I installed the winch.

Here is a pic from when I installed the winch plate, the horns are mounted on the middle brace.

 

[Okki]

Yeah, suppose some more details would help. Sorry about that.

My TE just had the single OEM horn which I just swapped out for the dual Fiamms. I wired it straight in there without using the relay. I don't think I save the relay but I do have the OEM one that I could swap back in if need be.

A bad ground does sound like a likely culprit. They worked fine until they were moved (just rotated on same mounting location) when I installed the winch.

Here is a pic from when I installed the winch plate, the horns are mounted on the middle brace.

Interesting.. the TE only has a single horn? anyway... with the location where you have the FIAMM's I'd check your ground first. The OEM horn (at least ont he Limited) is mounted on the body (The silver gross member above the radiator); so with the horns being moved to a secondary bracket; that might be your main culprit. I would run a ground wire back to the main body and see if that fixes your issue. you can test that out with just a loose strand of wire before you crimp on connectors etc and spend a lot of time on it.

Limited OEM horns:

Hella Dual Tone horns with ground wire to bracket bolt:

Okki

 

[deekoi]

Hella Dual Tone horns with ground wire to bracket bolt:

Okki

I like the Hella's much more. Pretty awesome compared to stock or Fiamm. Hella Loud!

My TE had 2 stock horns

 

[RyanC]

So I ran dedicated ground wires for the horns to the frame:

and

But no dice . . . start the car up and replace the fuse - all is fine. Hit the horn and it is stuck until I turn the car off/re-start it.

Other thoughts?

 

[Antman]

Been chewing on this for awhile with the EWD. Got me stumped- it's obvious the ground is/was good at the horns, or they wouldn't sound. Something is causing the factory horn relay to stick "on". Maybe, due to the extra load imposed from the horns, it's return spring is weak or damaged. But- the horn wouldn't reset after turning off the ignition if that's the case. Hmmmmmm. That relay is located under the hood in a plastic box. It's by the angled corner of the box- #25. It's labeled under the lid. Take a look and see if it looks funny- burnt or otherwise.
If I had this problem, I would check that first. If all looks ok- go back to square one. Temporarily install the factory horn and see if the problem exists. If that solves it, hook the aftermarket horns up with a relay. If the problem still exists, well we can go from there. I want to figure this out now!

 

[PracticalFJ]

Interesting.. the TE only has a single horn? anyway... with the location where you have the FIAMM's I'd check your ground first. The OEM horn (at least ont he Limited) is mounted on the body (The silver gross member above the radiator); so with the horns being moved to a secondary bracket; that might be your main culprit. I would run a ground wire back to the main body and see if that fixes your issue. you can test that out with just a loose strand of wire before you crimp on connectors etc and spend a lot of time on it.

Limited OEM horns:

Hella Dual Tone horns with ground wire to bracket bolt:

Okki

My Hella's (on Trail) are set up exactly as Okki's are. No issues at all.

 

[Titanpat57]

Been chewing on this for awhile with the EWD. Got me stumped- it's obvious the ground is/was good at the horns, or they wouldn't sound. Something is causing the factory horn relay to stick "on". Maybe, due to the extra load imposed from the horns, it's return spring is weak or damaged. But- the horn wouldn't reset after turning off the ignition if that's the case. Hmmmmmm. That relay is located under the hood in a plastic box. It's by the angled corner of the box- #25. It's labeled under the lid. Take a look and see if it looks funny- burnt or otherwise.
If I had this problem, I would check that first. If all looks ok- go back to square one. Temporarily install the factory horn and see if the problem exists. If that solves it, hook the aftermarket horns up with a relay. If the problem still exists, well we can go from there. I want to figure this out now!

I think you nailed it....bad or faulty horn....

 

[rickwol]

No attempt at hyjacking the thread here but I'm thinking of replacing my FIAMM duo with the Hella's as it seems that they are actually quite loud. For those who have installed the Hella's have you all used the relay that is supplied plus an inline fuse? I did not use a seperate relay for my FIAMM's.

 

[Antman]

I think you nailed it....bad or faulty horn....

If by "horn" you mean the factory circuit- I think that may be it. The horns are working- all too well! I would think the factory relay could handle the load- but who knows? Bean counters rule. I can't find the location for the plug 1C White on my paperwork. It appears to go to the horn relay. Anybody find that out?

 

[RyanC]

I want to figure this out now!

I called the service department at the local dealer and have an appt for next Tuesday afternoon - assuming that we don't figure it out first. He also told me to check the wiring back to the source and said that in the years he's been working on Toyota's the horn system has been pretty bomb proof with the exception of cars that have been in accidents or have damage to the steering column. He suspects a kinked or pinched wire - which might make sense as it started happening after installing the winch. I had double checked the connections & ground to the horns but didn't follow it back.

I don't have a garage to work in so I am limited to daylight out door work but luckily it is a slow week so I can take a couple of long lunches if need be. Here is my plan of attack -

1. Follow the wiring back to see what I can see.
2. Check the relay to see if it looks intact/good shape.
3. Connect the OEM horn

I'll let you guys know what I find out . . .

 

[Antman]

I gotta tell you what I see in your pictures definitely could use some fixing! That electrical tape is already coming off, and you should loom all the exposed wiring to those horns (except the grounds) if you expect your hard work to last! Shrink-wrap or liquid electrical tape the connections and get some nice split-loom under there! Just suggestions from someone who used to wire things that way.

Good luck!

 

[Jtraskell]

Ryan, Antman, seriously. If you plug in the OEM horn and it works, or not, then at least you will know where to start looking. Right?

 

[RyanC]

I gotta tell you what I see in your pictures definitely could use some fixing! That electrical tape is already coming off, and you should loom all the exposed wiring to those horns (except the grounds) if you expect your hard work to last! Shrink-wrap or liquid electrical tape the connections and get some nice split-loom under there! Just suggestions from someone who used to wire things that way.

Good luck!

Very good point . . . I did remove all of the electrical tape back to the original connector and everything looked ok. I followed the wiring & loom back as best I could and everything appeared ok. The relay down by the bottom of the radiator appeared ok (at least by my headlamp).

I put the stock horn in and plugged in the OEM connector. Started up the truck, replaced the fuse . . . hit the horn . . . and . . .

. . . the horn is still stuck. It just sounds a whole lot more pathetic. :dammit:

For now I guess I'll leave the OEM horn installed and wait until my appt next week. It does appear that the problem is in the factory circuit somewhere so at this point probably beyond my capabilities. The service guy at Big Horn Toyota seemed like a straight shooter so who knows, maybe he can warranty it since the OEM horn is there. Probably unlikely but who knows?

Once we get the circuit issue fixed I can reconnect the FIAMMs - and do a much neater and more thorough job (good advice Antman).

 

[RyanC]

Ryan, Antman, seriously. If you plug in the OEM horn and it works, or not, then at least you will know where to start looking. Right?

Yep, was doing that probably while you were typing the message. :lmao:

Just had to get home from work so I could grab the OEM horn - and you're right, we've narrowed down the issue.