Stuck pedal found on 4runner. Not good..

[scottm]

I should bring that up in class. thanks! correct me if i'm wrong but weren't audi engines burning up, if you will, on highways in the same time period? thats what I know/heard about foreign cars in the 70s-80s. your a member of SAE cool. I'm trying to be a mechanical engineer hopefully in the racing area of the automotive world (Formula D, F1, JGTC, etc.

Engines burning up sounds familiar, I thought it was another make though. Audi had their battery under the rear seat, and an electrical splice under the passenger floormat did ignite on some cars. Lots of electrical gremlins in the late 80s. The 5-cylinder was one of the best engines ever put in a vehicle, the 20-valve turbo 2.2l was awesome. Audi made over 1000hp in hill-climbing competitions with it, and lots of guys ran over 500hp in daily driving with the 10V and 20V turbos. Public sentiment caused Audi to switch to the V6 in the US, and that was the end of awesomeness for Audi in my book. My '90 10V turbo quattro avant had over 250k trouble-free miles on it when I sold it.

If it hadn't been for the unintended acceleration making Audis dirt-cheap, I'd never have bought one. My Audi cost more than a loaded Caddy or Lincoln when new.

 

[Thai]

I happen to know the guy that was on that cel phone and he was not the one driving.

The car was also a loaner car that was equipped with a push button start that was probably unfamiliar to the driver (didn't know that you need to hold it down for 3 seconds to turn off engine while moving). It's pretty easy to say he could have done this and he could have done that. I agree. And maybe he did. Nobody will ever know. He managed NOT to slam into dozens of cars for several miles and the fact that he managed that shows that he had his wits about him.

New Toyota's have electronic throttles. It is certainly possible that a lot of these incidents could be attributed to floormats. That is what Toyota has been blaming all of these incidents on.... UNTIL NOW. Now all of a sudden there is a problem with the throttle pedal itself.

Whats to say the problem isn't electrical. Would certainly explain the SUDDEN acceleration people describe. A stuck throttle doesn't explain that.

All I am saying is have a little decency. You weren't in that car on that day.

I agree. There is just too many variables here to jump to coclusion about any one incident. The fact that Toyota went from blaming the floormats to now this gas pedal problem shows that there is a manufacturing/design problem. I do not believe that this can all be blamed on the person behind the wheel.

 

[Thai]

There will be alot of people jumping on the bandwagon when they have an accident now.... No way of telling who is telling the truth, especialy with the media....

Toyota is a very good company and they will fix any problem if there is one... They will handle what ever they need too.... and i'm sure they will get through it just fine.... They build quailty vehicles and been around for a long while and this sure will not make me go out and buy another car....

Remeber the head gasket recall.... They were commented to it and handled it like professoinals....

Then again, i can give you many examples where Toyota tried to hide the facts and screw the customers.....

 

[scottm]

The fact that Toyota went from blaming the floormats to now this gas pedal problem shows that there is a manufacturing/design problem. I do not believe that this can all be blamed on the person behind the wheel.

The floormat problem has been around for years, every car now comes with some mechanism to hold the driver's floormat in place. In fact, the patrolman in Cali was driving a loaner with aftermarket floormats, the dealer wanted to keep the stock floormats clean. Factory floormats were never in question, and I thought it odd that Toyota was making so much noise about it. Unless they already knew about something else....?

 

[ran]

Can you check your late model 4th gen and see which gas pedal you have??? I understand Denso have 4-5 bolt heads, I do not. 2007 SE. ???

 

[SurfToy]

One thing that always seems to get lost in all these conversations about 'unintended acceleration' is that there is no production vehicle made today (or in the last several decades) in which the engine can overpower the brakes. What this means is that if the driver is aware and knows their vehicle and they stomp on the brakes, the car will stop.

Trouble is, most drivers are not involved in the process of driving, and have no real competency at it. They merely push a button here and another there, and try to keep it between the lines if possible. When something unexpected happens, they are not prepared to deal with it. Add in distractions such as mobile phones, texting, NAV, and whatever else they've got going on, and you've got crashes.

Not to say there isn't something causing the accelerator to stick in some of these recent cases, just that a competent driver should be able to stop before there is an incident.

The real shame is going to be the damage done to the brand. This is my first Toyota, and I hope it won't be my last, but we'll have to see.

 

[tonyxcom]

One thing that always seems to get lost in all these conversations about 'unintended acceleration' is that there is no production vehicle made today (or in the last several decades) in which the engine can overpower the brakes. What this means is that if the driver is aware and knows their vehicle and they stomp on the brakes, the car will stop..

I don't find that to be true at all. There were eye witness reports the Lexus that crashed in San Diego... it's brakes were on fire. This would indicate that the brakes overheated (and faded) and failed to slow the car down.

Keeping a stopped car stopped by holding the brakes then pressing the gas is a LOT different than going 60mph then giving the car 100% acceleration and then trying to stop the car.

 

[SkylineGTRracer]

I don't find that to be true at all. There were eye witness reports the Lexus that crashed in San Diego... it's brakes were on fire. This would indicate that the brakes overheated (and faded) and failed to slow the car down.

Keeping a stopped car stopped by holding the brakes then pressing the gas is a LOT different than going 60mph then giving the car 100% acceleration and then trying to stop the car.

I would agree with you. I'm a very sporting driver and drive my truck to the ground before I upgraded the lines, pads, and rotors. the factory rotors on most vehicles can stop a car (hard stops) I'd like to say 5 times before they fad. Car and Driver did a braking test and Nissan had an epic fail with that infinity sport SUV. (FX35 maybe) to the point it scared the rotor and took 700+ ft to stop from 80. Another area would be there are no cooling ducts to channel air to the rotors. I could go on but most people don't race their cars so the manufacture puts small cheap brakes on their cars.

 

[SurfToy]

I don't find that to be true at all. There were eye witness reports the Lexus that crashed in San Diego... it's brakes were on fire. This would indicate that the brakes overheated (and faded) and failed to slow the car down.

Keeping a stopped car stopped by holding the brakes then pressing the gas is a LOT different than going 60mph then giving the car 100% acceleration and then trying to stop the car.

Interesting, I hadn't read about that one. Do you have a link to the story?

 

[tonyxcom]

Sorry, I had read at least 2 dozen different stories on the matter. Chris (guy on 911 call) was an acquaintance of mine... from Vallejo where I live and really good friends with my buddies. So they linked me to several different articles or might have even told me themselves.

But I recall that the people that saw the car before it went off the road reported that there was fire coming out of the front wheels. I've got over 95K miles on my IS350 without any problems and I held the same views as most of you when I first heard about it. Then after reading all the other reports on the issue and the term of "sudden acceleration" being used often it made me question what was really going on.

I think there is also an electrical problem. I haven't confirmed yet, but it possible that the actual shift lever is just operating a switch that controls the transmission which is shifted electronically. If that's the case, doesn't it make more sense that an electrical problem could have caused the throttle servo to accelerate and possibly prevent the transmission from shifting out of drive as well?

I am sure a floor mat or throttle pedal assembly can correctly explain a lot of the incidents, but I don't think it explains them all.

 

[morphius909]

Why is every tom, **** and harry coming out with a "story" of a sudden?

I wonder how many are media whores. Mind you the Media has a very good way of distorting the facts.

 

[SkylineGTRracer]

Why is every tom, **** and harry coming out with a "story" of a sudden?

I wonder how many are media whores. Mind you the Media has a very good way of distorting the facts.

We have three here in San Antonio. all with camrys. one was a red light runner t-boned, one on I-10, and I missed the other one.

 

[Roland]

Here is my story.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/43729-stuck-passing-gear.html

I'll add that I'm even more convinced that this was not gas pedal related but either a ECU or transmission problem.

 

[Atlanta_man]

mine is in that thread too, over a year old...

 

[teampwr2]

I Have always had Toyota since 1980 and will continue .....Never had a Problem or warranty issue with anyof them just normal maint. ...Highest miles were 186,000 ran like a top when I sold it lowest miles were 140,00 before selling Had a 1980 truck ,1984 trk , 1986 truck,1994 trk ,2000 trk, 2004 truck 2002 camry 2005 4 runner All of them have never had trouble.

 

[JBgotM]

Sorry, I had read at least 2 dozen different stories on the matter. Chris (guy on 911 call) was an acquaintance of mine... from Vallejo where I live and really good friends with my buddies. So they linked me to several different articles or might have even told me themselves.

But I recall that the people that saw the car before it went off the road reported that there was fire coming out of the front wheels. I've got over 95K miles on my IS350 without any problems and I held the same views as most of you when I first heard about it. Then after reading all the other reports on the issue and the term of "sudden acceleration" being used often it made me question what was really going on.

I think there is also an electrical problem. I haven't confirmed yet, but it possible that the actual shift lever is just operating a switch that controls the transmission which is shifted electronically. If that's the case, doesn't it make more sense that an electrical problem could have caused the throttle servo to accelerate and possibly prevent the transmission from shifting out of drive as well?

I am sure a floor mat or throttle pedal assembly can correctly explain a lot of the incidents, but I don't think it explains them all.

The engine and the transmission are on completely seperate controllers. They communicate with each other, but an electrical failure in the engine controller causing application of throttle should have no impact on the ability to shift into nuetral. It may tell the transmission to shift down for more acceleration, but that's it.

 

[Uneek]

Toyota is a very good company and they will fix any problem if there is one... They will handle what ever they need too.... and i'm sure they will get through it just fine.... They build quailty vehicles and been around for a long while and this sure will not make me go out and buy another car....

Remeber the head gasket recall.... They were commented to it and handled it like professoinals....

I disagree. Toyota is no different than any other company, they are out there to make money. Warranty claims hurts the bottom line. Toyota is a good company in the sense that their products have historically needed less warranty work, meaning more reliable.

They are fixing this issue because their feet is held to the fire. Toyota fixing this out of good will is BS. The PR nightmare alone of the media with "runaway Toyotas" is forcing their hand.

Look at the threads here about corroded rims. My Tacoma rims are like that too, the dealer said, "look at your chassis, it's rusted badly too. It's where you live and the elements." My Mazda looked a thousand times better at 15yrs old.

On my Camry, they didn't want to fix the AC magnetic clutch relay when I had a TSB in hand.

Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a Toyota hater. I own a 2004, 2005 and 2006 Toyota and a past 1990. But I refuse to be a fanboy and be oblivious to the fact that Toyota has some serious issues on its hands with their recent products and I'm wary about buying another Toyota. I would like to, but is the Toyota today like the Toyotas I had the in past.

Fortunately I'm not in the market for another vehicle, otherwise there's a LOT of homework to do.

Then again, i can give you many examples where Toyota tried to hide the facts and screw the customers.....

:iagree:

 

[Uneek]

One thing that always seems to get lost in all these conversations about 'unintended acceleration' is that there is no production vehicle made today (or in the last several decades) in which the engine can overpower the brakes. What this means is that if the driver is aware and knows their vehicle and they stomp on the brakes, the car will stop.

Trouble is, most drivers are not involved in the process of driving, and have no real competency at it. They merely push a button here and another there, and try to keep it between the lines if possible. When something unexpected happens, they are not prepared to deal with it. Add in distractions such as mobile phones, texting, NAV, and whatever else they've got going on, and you've got crashes.

Not to say there isn't something causing the accelerator to stick in some of these recent cases, just that a competent driver should be able to stop before there is an incident.

The real shame is going to be the damage done to the brand. This is my first Toyota, and I hope it won't be my last, but we'll have to see.

In the other thread, a member posted a link where someone tried to replicate the incident the CHP driver experienced in the ES350 with a brand new 2010 from the dealer. The first couple stops, the brakes did slow down and stopped the ES350. Then brake fade began afterwards. In summary it was a "perfect storm" that lead to the fatal accident.

Car and Driver also did tests in regards to the power of the brakes and unintended acceleration. Their findings were the brakes are more powerful than the engine on the first couple braking. Then it'll fade. What they also found was the Camry has no accelator cut off when the brakes are applied.

Sadly, the damage is Toyota's own doing in cost cutting. Hopefully they'll learn from it and go back to what Toyota was.

I don't find that to be true at all. There were eye witness reports the Lexus that crashed in San Diego... it's brakes were on fire. This would indicate that the brakes overheated (and faded) and failed to slow the car down.

Keeping a stopped car stopped by holding the brakes then pressing the gas is a LOT different than going 60mph then giving the car 100% acceleration and then trying to stop the car.

The guy who replicated the ES350 incident held the accelerator down and braked at the same time, the car did slow down and stop on the initial tests.

 

[tonyxcom]

Interesting. Did it list at what speeds the car was moving before applying the brakes?

 

[Uneek]

Interesting. Did it list at what speeds the car was moving before applying the brakes?

ES350 test post. It was a 2009 ES350, not a 2010.

Car and Driver test of sticky throttle thread and link.