Synthetic Oil and Engine longevity

[TeryT]

I'd love to be enlightened. How 'bout a link?

Just what was stated above. While on the face of it, it seems like NY taxis would be the harshest "real world" test that could be done, in fact, these vehicles are left running for very long periods of time. Thus avoiding one of the most violent things you can do to an engine - i.e., starting it up cold, repeatedly.

 

[JB.]

Just what was stated above. While on the face of it, it seems like NY taxis would be the harshest "real world" test that could be done, in fact, these vehicles are left running for very long periods of time. Thus avoiding one of the most violent things you can do to an engine - i.e., starting it up cold, repeatedly.

So it wasn't a comprehensive test. No one (except maybe CR, lol) thinks it was. It also was not insignificant. If synthetic is as much better as it appears on paper, some evidence should have shown up in that test.

 

[ToyotaDan]

Its proven that synthetic is better, also for the fact that you can go 5 times longer without an oil change should show you that you will be saving money on regular oil changes every 3K-5K miles.

Yes - , except show me an oil filter that can handle that.

 

[TeryT]

So it wasn't a comprehensive test. No one (except maybe CR, lol) thinks it was. It also was not insignificant. If synthetic is as much better as it appears on paper, some evidence should have shown up in that test.

Point taken. So where is this elusive proof that synthetics are better?

 

[07runner]

Point taken. So where is this elusive proof that synthetics are better?

Synthetics are not so wonderfull after all. This test was not perfect, but it was good enough to show that synthetics are nothing great, just expensive.

I would like to see a cold weather test, and a hot weather test. Maybe in those situations it is worth the money. It would not surprise me if they came out even in that test as well.

Well I just saved my self about $500 over the course of 100,000 miles. Guess that fancy synthetic is not all it is cracked up to be.

Even in this test, synthetic did not shine over regular dino. Those taxis had to run really hot! Regular oil did just as good.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

My cost to run synthetic over 100k on my truck will cost me no more than $400 which isn't going to hurt my bank account and it's worth the piece of mind when I am abusing the truck.
Dino oil would cost me a little less (doing changes at 3500 vs 8000 on the syn) but not really that much. What does a change of dino oil cost you guys? I spend $30 every 8k.

 

[07runner]

First of all I will figure this on 5000 mile oil changes since this is Toyota's recommendation. Extending the oil changes with synthetic will void the warranty, and Mobil 1 does not recommend that you exceed the recommended schedule.

Based on a V-8 engine oil capacity of 6.5 qts:

synthetic $5.40 a qt, I can never get it on sale.
castrol $1.30 on sale

costs of oil per oil change:

synthetic $35.10
castrol $8.45

Difference of $26.65 per oil change. Or $53.3 more dollars per 10,000 miles. This comes to $533.00 over a period of 100,000 miles.

That stainless steel Jaos center bull bar is about this much money. Consumer reports proved that synthetics are nothing special. NY taxis run hot! Ever been in one before, Floor it and brake, floor it and break, I think this test was excellent, except the cold weather factor was not included.

This test proved synthetics are not all they should be cracked up to be. Maybe a cold weather test would produce different results. Keep in mind that the new API SM rating, has better sludge protection, and better flow at lower temp. It won't pour at 53 below zero, but then again your radiator will most likely burst. I think the coolant is only good for around 30 below.

Bottom line: $500 buys some nice mods. Your engine is well protected with regular oil. Not even Mobil 1 proved their product will substancially increase your engine life. Not even a single cold weather test. They do have really pretty literature though.

 

[cpayne5]

Longer OCIs do not void your warranty. That is 100% false. Look into the Magunson-Moss Act of 1975.

Use what you are comfortable with, but don't spread false rumors.

 

[07runner]

Longer OCIs do not void your warranty. That is 100% false. Look into the Magunson-Moss Act of 1975.

Use what you are comfortable with, but don't spread false rumors.

Toyota will void your warranty if you do not follow oil change maintance schedule.

Then you will need to hire a lawyer. Toyota is a big company with very expensive lawyers. They have a large cash reserve. You will need to spend several thousand dollars on a lawyer. This will take up to several years to come to a conclusion in court. The more money you spend , the more money Toyota will spend thus making things drag out even longer.

So at over $10,000 in legal fees, up to ? A few years later, even if you win, your lawyer is richer and you had no working vehicle.
So that $5000 repair did get done after all, only cost you 15,000 dollars. You sure did show Toyota who the Boss is.

 

[cpayne5]

You are wrong.

 

[Bluto]

I've run Fram filters and the cheapest oil I could find with zero problems.


But my current engine makes 3X the power and a fraction of the emission of my 95 Nissan. What worked 5 or 10 years ago does not apply.


There is no way to prove what will work best in my engine. Synthetic oil could help, do nothing, or even damage my engine. It may be 5-6 years before anything is known how oil selection affects the +05 2UZ-FE engine.

No other engine test/research/study apply. It is hard to comprehend how unique engines are today. Starting with the basic materials, my engine has nothing in common with a crown vic, other than 8 cylinders.

Auto manufactures are trying to reduce emission, increase power, and increase MPG. They have big incentives, just an example CAFE.
Toyota could have made a design decision to help their bottom line, and not you. But you won't find out until it is too late. (and engineers don't make all the decisions ).


If the Toyota powertrain is so good, why only the 5/60k warranty?

Some of the Emission Coverage is longer than the powertrain. Kind of scary. Toyota won't guarantee your engine will last 61k, but they'll replace a bad catalytic converter at 80k.

Toyota feels burning quart of oil every 1500 miles acceptable. Do you? I see too many 'engine rebuild' threads on other forums. And it is not just Toyota, but all manufactures.


I made a decision to put (what I believe is the best) oil in my engine for the long haul. Only time will tell. Not arguing on the internet.

 

[Bluto]

Toyota will void your warranty if you do not follow oil change maintance schedule.

Then you will need to hire a lawyer. Toyota is a big company with very expensive lawyers. They have a large cash reserve. You will need to spend several thousand dollars on a lawyer. This will take up to several years to come to a conclusion in court. The more money you spend , the more money Toyota will spend thus making things drag out even longer.

So at over $10,000 in legal fees, up to ? A few years later, even if you win, your lawyer is richer and you had no working vehicle.
So that $5000 repair did get done after all, only cost you 15,000 dollars. You sure did show Toyota who the Boss is.

Use Castrol oil and 'void' your warranty. Toyota only needs to state your oil or filter was defective. Toyota only warranties Toyota oil and filters 100% against defects.

 

[07runner]

You are wrong.

Are you a Corporate Lawyer? My wife is. People like you make it possible for me to pay cash for many toys I would not normally be able to afford.

 

[cpayne5]

lol

You're still wrong about the warranty, though.

 

[Koz]

Extending the oil changes with synthetic will void the warranty, and Mobil 1 does not recommend that you exceed the recommended schedule.

Just because you extend your change interval does NOT automatically void your warranty. The OEM change interval is recommended. For the OEM to void the warranty they have to prove that the extended drain interval was the cause of a failure. This is the law. If you have UOAs that show the oil was still good with ANY amount of miles, your warranty can not be voided. If you DON

 

[TeryT]

From the FTC website: FTC Magnuson-Moss Act

"Tie-In Sales" Provisions
Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

Disallowed Example: In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags. Failure to have scheduled maintenance performed, at your expense, by the Great American Maintenance Company, Inc., voids this warranty.

While you cannot use a tie-in sales provision, your warranty need not cover use of replacement parts, repairs, or maintenance that is inappropriate for your product. The following is an example of a permissible provision that excludes coverage of such things.

Accepted Example: While necessary maintenance or repairs on your AudioMundo Stereo System can be performed by any company, we recommend that you use only authorized AudioMundo dealers. Improper or incorrectly performed maintenance or repair voids this warranty.

Although tie-in sales provisions generally are not allowed, you can include such a provision in your warranty if you can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the FTC that your product will not work properly without a specified item or service. If you believe that this is the case, you should contact the warranty staff of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection for information on how to apply for a waiver of the tie-in sales prohibition.

Basically, manufacturers have to prove that the failure was a direct cause of the modification or deviation from what they state. In other words, they can recommend, but not insist you use specific products & maintenance procedures/cycles. It allows consumers more latitude, and puts more of the burden of proof on the manufacturer to show that the "deviation" was the cause of a failure.

But they also have big gun lawyers!

 

[07runner]

Not following the maintance schedule is up to you. Should something happan and you tell the judge that you did not follow the maintance schedule, what follows next is paying your lawyer lots of money to prove you are right. My new 07 4Runner will be paid for by people that thought they knew better, some did others well after they got the bill just wished they followed the directions or rules that were in place.

People hate lawyers cause they are expensive, why do such a thing in the first place. Even synthetic at 5000 mile oil changes are cheaper than court. Good luck to you on whatever you do. Even if you are right, the money it will cost you will not make it worth it. Sometimes the price of being right, is not worth it.

 

[Koz]

Not following the maintance schedule is up to you. Should something happan and you tell the judge that you did not follow the maintance schedule, what follows next is paying your lawyer lots of money to prove you are right. My new 07 4Runner will be paid for by people that thought they knew better, some did others well after they got the bill just wished they followed the directions or rules that were in place.

People hate lawyers cause they are expensive, why do such a thing in the first place. Even synthetic at 5000 mile oil changes are cheaper than court. Good luck to you on whatever you do. Even if you are right, the money it will cost you will not make it worth it. Sometimes the price of being right, is not worth it.

Have you ever heard of ANYONE (with a Toyota) experiencing an oil related engine failure?

Koz

 

[TeryT]

Not following the maintance schedule is up to you. Should something happan and you tell the judge that you did not follow the maintance schedule, what follows next is paying your lawyer lots of money to prove you are right. My new 07 4Runner will be paid for by people that thought they knew better, some did others well after they got the bill just wished they followed the directions or rules that were in place.

People hate lawyers cause they are expensive, why do such a thing in the first place. Even synthetic at 5000 mile oil changes are cheaper than court. Good luck to you on whatever you do. Even if you are right, the money it will cost you will not make it worth it. Sometimes the price of being right, is not worth it.

We make our choices, then walk the fine line between practicality & legality that seems most prudent (or not).

 

[07runner]

Have you ever heard of ANYONE (with a Toyota) experiencing an oil related engine failure?

Koz

I have not, only about sluge problems. Toyota said it was due to the owners not following the maintance schedule. Then they claim that out of good faith they would make repairs. You can still get sludge with synthetic oil if you wait too long to change it.