Tailgate Window - Console Switch not working, Rear Key works fine?

[Antman]

You are absolutely correct Jeff, I just went out and checked and there's no little LED on my console switch either. Sorry about the confusion Randy

I'm kinda excited about that actually. When I had the switch apart I thought- damn that looks like an LED but I figured it was come sort of fuse for the auto feature. I may just look into that...

 

[Randyman...]

FYI - See my reply above. That would make sense to me seeing where this LED is being fed from (directly from the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" and NOT from any type of standard "Illumination" circuit that I can tell).

I don't believe these switches carry any substantial current like "Old School" power windows used to (like my '87 T4R). I believe all of the current is switched by the regulator in modern vehicles IIRC - so the "unknown thingy in the console switch" being a fuse doesn't make sense to me. I'm betting on it being an "Error indication" LED for the Auto Up/Down circuit...

 

[Antman]

....so the "unknown thingy in the console switch" being a fuse doesn't make sense to me. I'm betting on it being an "Error indiaction" LED...

It didn't make sense to me either- that's why I put it back together and just let it be whatever it is!

 

[Randyman...]

"Let it be" :tea:

 

[eddiebx]

I'm kinda excited about that actually. When I had the switch apart I thought- damn that looks like an LED but I figured it was come sort of fuse for the auto feature. I may just look into that...

Do you recall if you can see any translucent "window" for the LED to shine through on the switch body? I stared long and hard at my switch and don't see anywhere for the mystery LED to shine through from...

I think Randy might be onto something about the error signal, I remember my friend's 4th gen 4runner having blinking window switches, which meant you needed to perform the initialization sequence, or something to that effect.

 

[Antman]

Do you recall if you can see any translucent "window" for the LED to shine through on the switch body? I stared long and hard at my switch and don't see anywhere for the mystery LED to shine through from...

I think Randy might be onto something about the error signal, I remember my friend's 4th gen 4runner having blinking window switches, which meant you needed to perform the initialization sequence, or something to that effect.

I remember a light tunnel of some sort. I don't know if the white plastic is translucent. I'm on vaca next week so I may just take it apart again and see.

 

[harper7]

Most likely a bad harness and or connector inside the tailgate and was just stretched when you were in there and have an open. There is a TSB out for it and several on here have had the problem......... I don't know and can't find the TSB number so maybe one of the peeps that work for Toyota on here can get it.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/79804-2010-limited-tailgate-fritz.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...dow-not-working-but-everything-else-work.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/121205-rear-wiper-not-working.html

 

[Randyman...]

Thanks for dropping in, Harper7! I've got a full crew of T4R All-Stars in this thread :amen: I will add these possibilities to my growing list of culprits.

Did this issue you mention still leave the Tailgate's KEY SWITCH functional? My Tailgate Key Switch still works fine for Rear Window Up/Down and lock/unlock. Rear Wiper/Washer and Cargo Lights all work as expected.

All of the FSM diagrams I'm seeing would indicate the Key Switch and the Center Console Switch BOTH feed the "Multiplex Network Door ECU" in the cabin, then this ECU sends combined key&console up/down triggers to the Tailgate mounted "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" via a common set of wires (reference the first post for pics from the FSM).

It would seem if one method (key or console switch) didn't work due to a specific "wire caught on the window" problem in the Tailgate itself, then BOTH wouldn't work (unless the issue only stressed the 4-Conductor Key Switch/License Plate Light Loom - meaning the Console Switch would likely work but the key wouldn't, but that's the inverse of the issue I'm having).

I certainly peeked inside the tailgate with the window rolled down (plenty of room to see with the rear trim panel/weatherstripping removed), and could not see any looms that were pulled or "in the way" of the window's travel.

My list is growing - and I will address all items in order of difficulty until I can proclaim "Problem Solved". :rain:

I will check the console fuse first thing when I get home around midnight. Digging back into the tailgate will have to wait until Saturday afternoon...

Rock and Roll guys!!! :cheers:

 

[WarnerD9]

I hate it when stuff like that happens.

Everyone has made great suggestions but I had a similar issue once and I checked the connector to the switch which turned out to be the problem. Probably not the solution but may be worth a try if the other ideas aren't working...

 

[Randyman...]

I hate it when stuff like that happens.

Me too, brother! Was hoping on a quick Garnish Swap on the tailgate (Chrome to Black) - but this is generally the kind of stuff I run into on a regular basis. I'm kind of used to the side-effects of my tweaking nature I feel I get wiser with every screw-up

Added to my list o' goodies Thanks!

 

[eddiebx]

Here ya go buddy, I was pretty sure the multiplex ECU is in the tailgate, but I think this finally confirms it for us. Hope this helps you out with troubleshooting this weekend!

 

[Randyman...]

Wow - That's odd! I wonder where the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" is then? I only see the single box in the tailgate your diagram calls the "Multiplex Network Door ECU".

The FSM shows the Front L/R and Rear L/R window switches all feeding into the "Multiplex Network Door ECU". Strange indeed. Maybe it is a multi-unit "Networked" box (one per door?). But then I'm still confused on where the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" is then? The FSM clearly shows them as 2 separate boxes...

Just got home - gonna look for the appropriate Console Fuse and also check the Console Power Outlet for power. The rest will be put off until Saturday...

Man, the tailgate looks SO much better with the black garnish No regrets at this point


EDIT - Ah - I think the FSM calls the rear-window MOTOR assembly the "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly". They call the motors the "Power Window Regulator
Motor Assembly" for the front and rear doors - thus my confusion on what a "Back Door Power Window Regulator Sub–Assembly" actually was. Makes sense as there is no other mention of the rear-window motor (didn't even realize it was "missing" with my theory of what was what in the FSM)...

So it does look like there are multiple (at least two) "Multiplex Network Door ECU's" which are (obviously enough) networked in some way! Possibly just involving windows with more than 1 method of control (The master driver's bank for the FR/RR/RL windows that end up with two controls per window, and the console switch + rear key for the rear-window). The FSM is starting to make A LOT more sense now. I'm an Audio/Broadcast Guy, not a "I have a knack for modern vehicle electrical systems" guy

This being the case (and my eyes being opened!), it does appear I could have easily cut one of the wires from the console switch to the tailgate-mounted "Multiplex Network Door ECU". This would result in the key working, but the console switch not. Perfect!

PS - Just checked the console/accessory fuses - all are good. So the issue must lie in the tailgate. I WILL fix this on Saturday!!! But only thanks to you (especially eddiebx) for staying with me until I could make sense of what the FSM was really telling me. It's like learning to read all over again...

Nighty-night!

 

[jfdallas]

Assuming it's still under warranty (being a 2013), you could always just go to the dealer and ask them to take a look at it...might save you untold hours of time...

 

[Randyman...]

True - but I've added dynamat to the rear gate's inner skin (and outer skin, but that doesn't affect accessibility into the tailgate), and I was the cause for the issue when I was mucking around in the tailgate to swap the rear garnish trim piece from the SR5's Chrome one to the Trail's Black one...

With eddiebx's clarifications on the FSM, I should be able to knock this out in an hour or so on Saturday (maybe two). I'd probably be at the dealer for multiple hours and I'm sure they would want me to remove all of the dynamat (not an easy proposition!)

I'm gonna fly solo on this - but having T4R.ORG is like having a factory certified tech in my back pocket!

 

[Go JayBee]

Randyman,
I see there has been a lot of great help given so far.
I have an idea that has not been mentioned...
When you changed the "garnish", did that include any wiring harness that may have been specific to the "Trail Edition"? Just a wild guess...maybe the pin-outs don't completely match the SR5 or Limited receiving connector.

If you just replaced the plastic pieces, and just transferred all of your existing electrical items, then this is a non-issue. Thought I'd try and help.

Good luck in your quest for justice and the American way.

 

[Randyman...]

Thanks for your post! Like your last line there :bravo:

Indeed - the garnish is just the plastic piece with the 4RUNNER and Toyota sombrero emblems. I transferred the Key Switch, License Plate Lights, and the door opener trigger thingy along with the single harness that connects all of these items (it's a 6-pin harness - I was wrong when I said it was a 4-pin harness earlier in the thread). So none of that stuff changed.

Now that I can see what the FSM is actually saying (cleared up my incorrect hypothesis of where the "Multiplex Network Door ECU" was located), it is a good bet that I messed up one of the wires from Center Console Switch to the "Multiplex Network Door ECU". I could have sworn I didn't cut it - but I must have been wrong Either that or I stressed the loom and broke a wire internally. All makes sense now that I understand the FSM...

Rock on all

 

[Randyman...]

Don't I feel stupid! The center console switch's plug in the center console was disconnected. I was in the console last week tweaking a different wire for my radar detector (totally forgot about that), and must have neglected to re-attach it! :sorry:

I don't use the rear-window often, so I must not have realized the switch wasn't working until I was swapping the garnish, and immediately blamed those actions for the fault...

Everything in the tailgate is A-OK after four unnecessary inspections. I live, I learn :madgrin:

I appreciate all of the wonderful and prompt input. Hope to return the favor one day. You guys are awesome. Sorry for the false alarm

Rock on

 

[Antman]

Don't I feel stupid! The center console switch's plug in the center console was disconnected. I was in the console last week tweaking a different wire for my radar detector (totally forgot about that), and must have neglected to re-attach it! :sorry:

I don't use the rear-window often, so I must not have realized the switch wasn't working until I was swapping the garnish, and immediately blamed those actions for the fault...

Everything in the tailgate is A-OK after four unnecessary inspections. I live, I learn :madgrin:

I appreciate all of the wonderful and prompt input. Hope to return the favor one day. You guys are awesome. Sorry for the false alarm

Rock on

At least you admitted it.

Can we call you names now?

J/K. Glad it works!

 

[Randyman...]

Can we call you names now?

I deserve worse than that :biggrin2:

I learned a good deal about the way the power windows work, so I can't call it a total loss of my time (if not a total waste of you guys' time! :hatsoff: )

Bonus: I get to enjoy the rest of my day off - can't ask for more than that

 

[AngelaDraa]

Is your window lock button on?....

Why yes, it is. THANK YOU!!!! You just saved me a huge headache!!