TE rear locker v. Ltd torsen center diff, if you could only have one?

[ToyTech99]

Thai,

I know people will buy the SR5. I even made the same exactl argument in another post....most people don't know the difference and only care about a 4wd button or lever.

When I asked who would buy an SR5 without the Torsen or a rear diff lock, I was talking about the enthusiasts on this forum. We all know better, so why would we want a 4wd 4Runner that is inferior to the other two available models? IMO, SR5 buyers are getting the shaft because they don't have the the Torsen or the rear diff lock.

 

[Thai]

so why would we want a 4wd 4Runner that is inferior to the other two available models? IMO, SR5 buyers are getting the shaft because they don't have the the Torsen or the rear diff lock.

But, isn't that the definition of a BASE model?? You're buying a base model at a cheaper price than the other trim for a reason. Isn't it the same way with any other car brand? The upcoming Jeep GC will be the same way. The base model will not have the cool stuff of its upper trim levels.

Do you go and tell your FJ 2wd owners that they got shafted because their 2wd FJ did not come with 4wd system nor a rear locker (nor A-TRAC)?? No, those owners got what they paid for.

 

[Thai]

Thai,

I know people will buy the SR5. I even made the same exactl argument in another post....most people don't know the difference and only care about a 4wd button or lever

That type of ignorance is good for your business, no?

 

[sandcrawler]

don't the results of this poll say it all, simply and succinctly?

 

[GMZ]

Torsen for me

09 TE is the best of both worlds, I dont see why they didnt just keep that drivetrain since it was already available and add all the KDSS crap to it.

 

[Thai]

don't the results of this poll say it all, simply and succinctly?

Not sure if the poll is legit. Right now, there is an overwhelming 4th gen owners on this forum...and only a few people truly interested in the 5th gen. And as such, 4th gen owners will prefer their car over anything else. I would like to see this poll again in a year when you have equal representation of 5th and 4th gen owners.

 

[sandcrawler]

fair point.
in my case, i'm VERY interested in the 5G and dismayed to think that, much as i want a new one, i may decide to stick with my 4G for now. but that's just me.

 

[ToyTech99]

But, isn't that the definition of a BASE model?? You're buying a base model at a cheaper price than the other trim for a reason. Isn't it the same way with any other car brand? The upcoming Jeep GC will be the same way. The base model will not have the cool stuff of its upper trim levels.

Do you go and tell your FJ 2wd owners that they got shafted because their 2wd FJ did not come with 4wd system nor a rear locker (nor A-TRAC)?? No, those owners got what they paid for.

The SR5 has had the same 4wd system as the Sport Edition and the Limited during the entire 4th generation run. Why should 2010 SR5 owners get shafted with a less capable 4wd system when it hasn't been that way for years?

And your 2wd FJ argument doesn't hold water. Of course if someone chooses to buy a 2wd FJ, they won't get 4wd or a rear locker. My point is that an SR5 4Runner has an inferior 4wd system, which means that a person who otherwise would have purchased an SR5 now has to spend more money to get a better 4wd system. And that might include buying and paying for things that are not desirable, such as 20" wheels and tires. Think about it...maybe someone likes the SR5 on looks alone. Maybe because it doesn't have the flat black bumpers/grille. Or maybe because it doesn't come with the bling wheels and standard leather seats. Well, that guy can always buy the SR5 instead, right? Sure he can, as long as he's willing to give up some 4wd capability because he can't get the Torsen or the rear diff lock. That's what I'm saying is that Toyota messed up on giving people what they want by narrowing the choices too far and forcing people to buy stuff they don't want in order to get other stuff they do want. Sucks if you ask me.

 

[GMZ]

The SR5 has had the same 4wd system as the Sport Edition and the Limited during the entire 4th generation run. Why should 2010 SR5 owners get shafted with a less capable 4wd system when it hasn't been that way for years?

And your 2wd FJ argument doesn't hold water. Of course if someone chooses to buy a 2wd FJ, they won't get 4wd or a rear locker. My point is that an SR5 4Runner has an inferior 4wd system, which means that a person who otherwise would have purchased an SR5 now has to spend more money to get a better 4wd system. And that might include buying and paying for things that are not desirable, such as 20" wheels and tires. Think about it...maybe someone likes the SR5 on looks alone. Maybe because it doesn't have the flat black bumpers/grille. Or maybe because it doesn't come with the bling wheels and standard leather seats. Well, that guy can always buy the SR5 instead, right? Sure he can, as long as he's willing to give up some 4wd capability because he can't get the Torsen or the rear diff lock. That's what I'm saying is that Toyota messed up on giving people what they want by narrowing the choices too far and forcing people to buy stuff they don't want in order to get other stuff they do want. Sucks if you ask me.

I see what youre saying and agree. With the 4th Gen the drivetrain configurations were all equal, just the trim level was different so if you wanted more or less bells and whistles you didnt have to give up any capability in that regard. I cant see how having 3 different 4wd drivetrain configurations is better for the company or end user???

 

[Thai]

Maybe Toyota is finally differentiating the different levels more now than in the past? Again, this is nothing new among the other car manufacturers (see Jeep for example)...maybe, the 4th gen owners have been having it good these years? Given that the prices are staying more or less the same as the 4th gen, i think that these changes are unavoidable.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

Can't keep 4Runner prices pretty much the same for over 10 years now w/o making some sacrifices. I think the new Runner will certaintly grow on people.

 

[GatorGreg]

Why should 2010 SR5 owners get shafted with a less capable 4wd system when it hasn't been that way for years?

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[ToyTech99]

Okay, so maybe you can't always get what you want. But those words ring more true than ever for 2010 SR5 buyers.

I think Thai is right about one thing--Jeep has been playing the same game for years. I think they have 3 different 4wd systems for their Grand Cherokee and Commander. But the difference there is that you can choose the 4wd system that you want in any trim level you buy, whether it's a Limited, Overland, Sport or whatever. Don't quote me on the trim levels because I don't know how many they have or the names of them all, but I'm pretty sure that you have the option of choosing different systems on different trim levels. The Overland might only be available with QDII though, but again, I'm not sure.

Now if Toyota would just give us some choices that didn't force us into a trim level that we might not want.... I've already heard people complaining that they would have to buy navigation to get KDSS on the Trail. I understand bundling option packages, but that seems a little ridiculous to me. What the hell does navi and KDSS have in common that would make Toyota to force buyers to purchase both together or none at all?

Okay, my complaining is done. I just don't agree with the direction Toyota is heading with the new 4Runner. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the way they used to do things. It's just disappointing, that's all....

 

[Thai]

I've already heard people complaining that they would have to buy navigation to get KDSS on the Trail. I understand bundling option packages, but that seems a little ridiculous to me. What the hell does navi and KDSS have in common that would make Toyota to force buyers to purchase both together or none at all?

Okay, my complaining is done. I just don't agree with the direction Toyota is heading with the new 4Runner. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the way they used to do things. It's just disappointing, that's all....

I agree on the NAVI bundle...pretty ridiculous!! I hate it when manufacturers do that! It is similar to what Honda does to the Fit. To get VSA (stability control), you have to buy the top-of-the-line Sport model AND also opt for the NAVI. I thought Honda's moto was "Safety for everyone"?

I think that the only person(s) shock at Toyota's decision to "downgrade" the 4wd system will be the current 4th gen owners because you guys have had it good for so long! Everyone else will not be as shock.

 

[sandcrawler]

i suspect that Toyota is going to double-back on this decision and return the Torsen to the SR5 (& Trail Edition, i bet) in relatively short time. i don't have any inside information per se, but the people i've spoken/written to at Toyota seem very responsive to this feedback (from a number of people). for example, when i've spoken to them about how i live in maine and that the SR5/TE are equipped with the Torsen for the canadian market (just a few hours north of me) they've been very receptive. to a person, i'd say they're very much in "we're listening" mode. my 2¢.

 

[chip4]

I think that the only person(s) shock at Toyota's decision to "downgrade" the 4wd system will be the current 4th gen owners because you guys have had it good for so long! Everyone else will not be as shock.

Hi Thai, doesnt your G class have 3 diffs that are lockable :flipoff:

 

[Thai]

Hi Thai, doesnt your G class have 3 diffs that are lockable :flipoff:

hahahaha

 

[Mike07SE]

Plus ESP/ASR that works very very well!

Back to the topic and poll at hand...

I'd prefer to take the lockable Torsen CD for the everyday driving that I do with the 5-10% actual offroading that I can get to doing, with the assumption that I can later add a locker or LSD (ie ARB or TrueTrac...).

Now if I can only have it one way and that's it, done deal, I'd go with the old school 4x4 T-case with a locker in the rear.

 

[gm350reratliff]

I'll take the locker.

So if I read this right, in Canada you can get a TE with the Torsen center diff and a rear locker?