Temperamental TPS 08 SR5

[Erkelbot]

I'm having a weird issue with my 08 SR5 TPS...

Two weekends ago I took off my stock 16s and 265/70R16s and replaced them with 5th gen wheels off a 2012 and Nitto TG2s in 265/70R17s. I had to do some minor trimming in the liner, and a small amount with the left hand lower bumper. Nothing major, and it's gone for the most part...

BUT since then I've had TPS issues. Two of the TPS sensors were able to be transplanted and rebuilt, and 2 needed to be replaced. All done by a professional tire shop. When I first drove away, the light was on (not flashing) and I was told it would go away once the car relearns the new sensors after maybe 5-10 miles, which were programmed into the computer. No dice.

I brought it back in and they checked everything out again. They said they found the spare had a TPS as well, and that tire was low. So they fixed it (added air), and sent me on my way. Well, as I got home and pulled into my garage, TPS sensor comes on again (solid, not flashing)... Weird.

I gave it another day or two and continued to see it come on and go off (not flashing, solid)...frustrated, I brought it back into the tire shop. Baffled, they promised to fix it and get me going. They reprogrammed the TPS all around and said that had to be it. A coupe hour later I had my truck back and drove home happy. UNTIL I pulled into my garage again and the light came back on (solid).

So that was a couple days ago. Almost every single time I pull into my garage it turns on solid amber. The wheels aren't cranked either -- I'm driving straight in. And it's not that I'm driving slow either. I drive slow during my commute in the morning and evening. It should come on then too if it's a speed thing. When I'm at work, the light doesn't come on either. My home garage isn't heated (yet), though it is insulated. When I park at work I park outside in ~50 degrees all day. Certainly not air temp that would drain the pressure enough to trip the sensor. And, theoretically, after driving my commute home after work the air in the tires would rebound from warming up. But when I get home is when the TPS comes on.

I guess I am at a loss what it could be. Have they fixed something up in the install of the sensors (programming)? I'm leaning toward the outside chance I got a bad sensor out of the box, and one of the replacements is at fault. Could it be from sizing up the tire to a 265/70R17 from a 16 -- or the clearance in the wheel well?

Has anyone experienced any issue like this? Seriously, it's a head scratcher... Thanks for the help.

 

[jonesmw10]

Did they say why two needed to be replaced? Sounds like you weren't having an issue before you took it in. Seems as though the tire shop dropped the ball and are giving you the run around. Might be worth getting a second opinion from another shop imo

 

[NinjaOne]

My '04 light came on when I got a flat, never went off. Tire shop and my regular mechanic said they couldn't read any of the sensors. Took it to the dealer 6 months later (flashing the entire time) for a different service. They fixed whatever the issue is w/out saying a word. Tempted to lower tire pressure in a tire and see if it comes on and turns off after refilling

 

[Erkelbot]

The stems were in rough shape, and weren't able to be rebuilt. I kept the parts, and they were corroded because the original owner of the truck didn't have caps on the two needing to be replaced. The sensors apparently came as one piece back in 08, but now they're built as two separate pieces so they can work on ten without needing to replace the whole thing.

Net: the sensors needed to be replaced undoubtedly. You are right, they weren't having any issues befor they new wheels and tires, but the transplant is what caused the need to mess with what wasn't broken.

Any other theories?...

 

[Erkelbot]

Interesting, but mine haven't ever flashed. The amber light just illuminates (mostly when I pull into the garage), and goes off after a bit. Maybe I'll call the dealer. Weird that a tire shop -- a reputable one -- doesn't know how to work on TPS sensors from an 08 4Runner...

My '04 light came on when I got a flat, never went off. Tire shop and my regular mechanic said they couldn't read any of the sensors. Took it to the dealer 6 months later (flashing the entire time) for a different service. They fixed whatever the issue is w/out saying a word. Tempted to lower tire pressure in a tire and see if it comes on and turns off after refilling

 

[Erkelbot]

AHA MOMENT...

The old sensors that needed to be replaced...the ones where the sensor still worked, but that the valve stems were bad are sitting in my garage next to my parking spot... What if those parts are still trying to communicate with the computer, and it's triggering the system to read low?...

This would account for the light coming on randomly when I was driving after I initially got the car back. They were in the cup holder then. Then later, I took them out of the car and they sat next to where I park on the work bench. Now the light only comes on when I'm parking 5-10 feet of their location.

I think this is the culprit. I'm going to move them tomorrow and see if things change. But if I were Dr. House, I'd feel good about administering treatment on this "hunch". Feels like sarcoidosis.

 

[Gdmeadors]

I agree with your theory.

 

[CruzadoBlanco]

my tpms light came on after a day wheeling, dont even care. ill probably just disable the tpms system before my next inspection in march. its a common problem with the 4th gens from what ive read, welcome to the world of if it aint broke, fix it anyways...oops we broke it.

 

[Erkelbot]

Whelp, tried moving the sensors and I'm still seeing the light come on when I drive into my garage. I first tried moving the two old sensors 20-30' away inside my house (20-30' from the garage parking spot), it still triggered the light when I was parking. I then moved them to the other end of the house -- 50+' away. When I pulled in last night...nothing. This morning, however, when I started the car...long pause...wait for it...amber light!

All pressure is good -- I'm certain. The light literally turned off at the end of my driveway and didn't come on again. Typical of how it's worked in the past. Leave home and the light turns off. So strange...

That leaves me with three hypotheses:

1) The sensors have a much longer range than I thought and are still intermittently disrupting the readings from those in the tires/wheels. I called the dealer yesterday, and although they also though it strange, they said the radio signals could be disrupting the transmission. They advised I move them to the basement or further.

2) One of the sensors is just bad. This is unlikely, as the light coming on only as I enter the house. It's just far too coincidental for my liking.

3) There is some radio frequency that is being emitted in my house that's causing interference. This isn't something that's out of the question, as I've got a number of WiFi applications throughout my home. This includes: wifi enabled bulbs, cameras, irrigation, and a host of other fun toys. I suppose some of that 2.4GHz or 5Ghz bandwidth could cause interference. BUT, I would assume this sort of electronic interference would be widespread and cause issues with many other folks. Wifi is everywhere, and RF is pretty widespread too... I'd say this is also unlikely. AND, the TPS on the car before the swap NEVER acted up. So unless the new TPS are fundamentally different than the old ones with how they communicate with the car, this can't really be the case...

At this point I'll give it a couple more tries where I arrive home and see if the TPS comes on. If it does keep coming on, I'm just going to toss the old sensors in the garbage and remove them from the equation. If that doesn't help, I'm going to balk to the tire people and have them fix it all over again. Dismount tires, remount everything and get me all new sensors with new programming... ALL ON THEIR DIME.

 

[alia176]

I'm curious about one thing, do you have another vehicle with TPMS that your Runner is picking up? WAG....

 

[earthrealm]

would say its interference............either from your old sensor lying around or some kind of radio waves/wifi''''have you checked if aliens hvnt set up base in ur garage?

have you tried parking elsewhere?

 

[wadle5]

So after all of this we still haven't figured out the default in the system of the tpMs and really the best way to rectify this is to just bypass the light on dash?

 

[Erkelbot]

No alien readings as of now.

Wife's car also has sensors in it (Murano). Never been an issue until the tire/wheel swap, so I cannot imagine that's the issue.

Parking at work, or anywhere else for that matter, will not illuminate the light. It's exclusive to my garage.

I'll look into the default reading in the system. I'm sure the tire shop would have that on file. I'll call and find out.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

AHA MOMENT...

The old sensors that needed to be replaced...the ones where the sensor still worked, but that the valve stems were bad are sitting in my garage next to my parking spot... What if those parts are still trying to communicate with the computer, and it's triggering the system to read low?...

This would account for the light coming on randomly when I was driving after I initially got the car back. They were in the cup holder then. Then later, I took them out of the car and they sat next to where I park on the work bench. Now the light only comes on when I'm parking 5-10 feet of their location.

I think this is the culprit. I'm going to move them tomorrow and see if things change. But if I were Dr. House, I'd feel good about administering treatment on this "hunch". Feels like sarcoidosis.

I was actually going to ask this, glad you seemed to have figured it out.

On a side note, did they program the spare tire in as well (you didn't mention if they did; sounds like they only filled it up), if the spare tire's ID was erased, but one of the old ones retained when they reprogrammed the IDs; it is entirely possible that for whatever reason the TPMS doesn't realize that the tire is physically not on the vehicle and low until you get to the garage and it pings it. Another thing I have seen is "good" TPMS sensors overpowering weaker ones and confusing the TPMS into thinking it's got a dead sensor sometimes (ran into this a couple times when diagnosing a TPMS light on an older/higher mileage Toyota and doing so next to one or more newer brand new Toyota; the TPMS Tool will pick up the new car IDs instead of the older/weaker ones sometimes or you'll get a "double ID" where for whatever reason the tool picks up the opposite wheel on the same axle or the spare if it has it instead of the weaker TPMS on the valve stem you are checking.) Funky stuff yo!

 

[SSt4r]

If you're going to keep the old sensors, take them to work or someplace else & see what happens then when you park at home and park where the sensors are then. I'm willing to bet that 1 of them is still registered.

 

[Erkelbot]

Good insight here. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they reprogrammed the TPMS in the spare, since they acknowledged that it was low and had a sensor. Perhaps that's me being too naive... I'll have to ask.

So yesterday I mentioned I put the old sensors in the basement, which has to be 50-60' away from the garage. No light when I came home yesterday and entered the garage. I didn't let it idle long, but nonetheless, no light... Then this morning, I started it up and let it idle for 10-20 seconds before pulling out of the garage. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a TPMS light. I pulled out and checked the tires -- nothing low. I'm now ~60'+ feet from the old sensors. I pull down the driveway (a stretch of another 60' or so), and the light goes off before I hit the main street. Basically the same behavior I saw before, but at a longer range from the old sensors. Then in another 30' or so, the light came on again. Now I'm 150'+ from the old sensors...that is to say, there's no way it's interference from those sensors. The light turned off no more than 100' from that point and didn't come on again. The tires weren't warm yet, so that's not really a legit theory.

It's entirely possibly that, as [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] pointed out, the new TPMS are confusing the system and causing issues with the old sensors. I mean, I'm talking about an '08 SR5 here, and the sensors have a battery life of about 10 years.

Another possibility is that the shop I went to damaged an old sensor when they reinstalled it. I'm not sure what you can do to damage, since they only mess with the stems and the stems would cause a tire leak, but it is possible...

That leaves me with the following theories:

1) Incorrect programming. They've taken a few shots at this, but they may have missed the spare in the mix last go around...

2) A bad new/old sensor. Again, this is possible, but the coincidental nature by which the light illuminates is suspect. Having it only happen when I am close to home and not anywhere else sort of debunks this theory.

3) The new TPMS are confusing the system with their fancy battery life, and causing the system to think something's wrong.

4) The battery in one of the old units is going bad, which would be a super coincidence, but it's plausible. Still, the light should be turning on and off in different places -- not just near my home.

5) OUTSIDE THEORY: The old sensor codes are still in the CPU, and though the signal is weak from their remote location, the car can sense they;re out there somewhere. This would account for the erratic light on/light off nature of how they're working.

Whatever the case, I'm going to toss/relocate the old TPMS sensors at this point and see if that helps. Maybe I'll move them to work in my office and see if that changes the behavior of the light. I'm also going to take it back into the tire shop and just tell them to fix it. If a sensor is going bad/is faulty from the box, they can fix it and eat the cost. I've spent far too long dealing with this issue, which they should be well-equipped to deal with from the onset.

I was actually going to ask this, glad you seemed to have figured it out.

On a side note, did they program the spare tire in as well (you didn't mention if they did; sounds like they only filled it up), if the spare tire's ID was erased, but one of the old ones retained when they reprogrammed the IDs; it is entirely possible that for whatever reason the TPMS doesn't realize that the tire is physically not on the vehicle and low until you get to the garage and it pings it. Another thing I have seen is "good" TPMS sensors overpowering weaker ones and confusing the TPMS into thinking it's got a dead sensor sometimes (ran into this a couple times when diagnosing a TPMS light on an older/higher mileage Toyota and doing so next to one or more newer brand new Toyota; the TPMS Tool will pick up the new car IDs instead of the older/weaker ones sometimes or you'll get a "double ID" where for whatever reason the tool picks up the opposite wheel on the same axle or the spare if it has it instead of the weaker TPMS on the valve stem you are checking.) Funky stuff yo!

 

[SSt4r]

BlackWorksInc can chime in here, but I think our gen. only has memory for 5 TPM sensors so... Either you have the 4 new ones and the spare programed, or you have some of the new and 1 or more of the old still programed. If you go back to the tire shop make sure you DON'T bring th old sensors with you. Whatever tool they're using might have picked up the transmission from the old ones and they reprogramed those by mistake?
I would write down the serial numbers (or ID numbers) from the old ones and bring them with you so they can ensure those ID number aren't reused.

Also I believe when my original sensors failed, it caused the light to flash (indicating a fault in the system) vs. on steady indicating low pressure in 1 or more tires.
Good luck & keep us posted.

 

[gfluff]

I'm a tire shop manager. Toyota TPMS are by far the most finicky/headache inducing of all cars we work on. Your situation is very weird though, never heard of such a thing.
I have little insight without seeing your particular sensors, but here's something I know: the OEM sensors aren't 2 piece, so I wonder if somehow the replacements the shop used aren't fully compatible? We've had people bring in sensors off Amazon that cause us headaches... We sell Dill brand, in case you're wondering. Not trying to get you to use them, just stating for fact.
We also use a portable/handheld TPMS computer, a touch bigger than an IPhone 6+. It'd be ideal to get the shop manager to follow you home and scan your truck at the time the light goes on. Highly unlikely, but the only way to truly know what's going on in that AREA 51 you call a garage
Seriously, I'd say switch to OEM or a different brand of aftermarket sensors though...

 

[Erkelbot]

Thanks for the heads-up. I'm not sure what brand they used (I saw them, but didn't commit the name to memory), but I can virtually guarantee you they were not OEM -- in spite of them being $80 each. Man, even saying that hurts...

I'm going to bring the truck in and ask them to "figure it out" -- even if that means ordering new parts. I'm going to stash the old TPMS in a location in the ditch near my home and see if that makes a difference as I drive by. I'll bring in the codes in on a piece of paper though so they are certain to avoid keying those into the CPU. That way that will only key in the 5 tires that I need to monitor.

It's too bad the TPMS are so finicky since it's such a headache for the shops, but LOTS of Toyotas out there...Kinda gotta know what you're dealing with to suggest fixes, or at least advise the customer that it may act up on the back end.

I'm a tire shop manager. Toyota TPMS are by far the most finicky/headache inducing of all cars we work on. Your situation is very weird though, never heard of such a thing.
I have little insight without seeing your particular sensors, but here's something I know: the OEM sensors aren't 2 piece, so I wonder if somehow the replacements the shop used aren't fully compatible? We've had people bring in sensors off Amazon that cause us headaches... We sell Dill brand, in case you're wondering. Not trying to get you to use them, just stating for fact.
We also use a portable/handheld TPMS computer, a touch bigger than an IPhone 6+. It'd be ideal to get the shop manager to follow you home and scan your truck at the time the light goes on. Highly unlikely, but the only way to truly know what's going on in that AREA 51 you call a garage
Seriously, I'd say switch to OEM or a different brand of aftermarket sensors though...

 

[Erkelbot]

Pattern continued throughout the weekend as I came and went from my house, so I am certain it's the old sensors. Contrary to what was [MENTION=28616]SSt4r[/MENTION] said earlier, I think our CPUs can store more than 5 codes.

To ensure I properly tested what I thought to be the culprit, I brought the sensors into work today and parked right next to where I'll store them in my desk.

I'll monitor how this affects the behavior over the next couple days and call it a wrap if the light only illuminates when I get to work. With that said, it went on and off the entire ride in -- which is a symptom that hadn't yet occurred until now. I think I can safely say it's the sensors.

NET: If you replace your TPMS, throw out the old sensors or you'll risk having some really frustrating issues. Tire shops ought know to remove the codes from the CPU, but I don't think I would rely on that based on my experience.