Robb235
Senior Member
I don't have first hand knowledge, however, I believe if you're injecting 50/50 of water/methanol, you're really limited on how much you can inject due to the water. You inject too much water you run into problems.
The 3.4L TRD Supercharger Thread
- Thread starter SCRunner12
- Start date
I don't have first hand knowledge, however, I believe if you're injecting 50/50 of water/methanol, you're really limited on how much you can inject due to the water. You inject too much water you run into problems.
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
A methanol injection kit is put int in place of a 7th injector kit. Putting both on would be overkill and run too rich.
Short and sweet, here's the pro's of both:
URD 7th injector kit:
- Complete kit custom made for our engine
- Includes an external fuel map for tuning
- Comes pre-tuned which is perfect for roughly 90% of all 4Runners
- Slightly lowers combustion temperature by eliminating lean conditions
Water/Methanol Injection
- Drastically lowers intake air temperatures
- Drastically lowers combustion temperature, creating more timing advance
- Raises octane rating of your fuel mix
- Is the ONLY option if you have an EGR valve (7th injector will not fit)
- Cheaper by $300-$400
- Steam cleans your combustion chambers
I am planning on meth because mainly it's cheaper and has some great benefits that add longevity to your engine.
Two last thoughts on this:
1. To really get the most out of fuel mods, you'll want to go to a smaller pulley. 2.2 is perfect if you want an easy power increase, 2.1 requires tuning. The rare 2.0 pulleys are dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
2. Please, please, please don't run 100% methanol unless your pump is rated for it. 100% methanol is highly volatile and there's a reason why they cannot handle it.
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
Short answer: smaller pulleys. The smaller the pulley, the more rotations of the rotors per crank of the engine, which means more compression/boost. I think he was running a 2.0 at one point. This would be overkill once again for the stock 2.38 pulley.
[MENTION=60928]lhsoulrebel[/MENTION] You've got it right, this is kind of the poor man's tune since we cannot tune our ECU's. What you will need is the meth injection kit as well as a wideband A/F ratio sensor and gauge in order to do it right though, if you just slap on a kit you'll have dead spots in your throttle. Also if you want it to be consistent, you will want to buy an injection kit with a progressive controller. This will allow you to gradually increase the flow as you add more throttle and boost. The sweet spot based of Speedy's and Gadget's research is about 12 AFR at 100% throttle. Some like to run a bit more rich, but anything higher that 12 will lose power.
From what I've read as far as reviews go and from members here on the forums I've asked (I am yet to buy one myself, currently putting in a new suspension) here is my very subjective list on what are the best kits to get from highest to lowest. They would all work just fine though.
1. Coolingmist - $549 (comes with gauge) CMGS Stage 2 Progressive Methanol Water Injection
2. AEM - $462 Water/Methanol Injection Kit for Forced Induction Gasoline Engines | AEM
3. Snow Performance - $477 Snow Performance : Stage 2 Boost Cooler?
4. Devil's Own - $410 DVC-30 methanol Injection Kits : DevilsOwn water Injection
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lhsoulrebel
New member
Thanks man! Nice synopsis! The ranking of the kits, is that based on quality, tune ability, or something else? Am I correct in saying that if you increase meth in lean afr spots, then the afr's should richen ? Thanks again.
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RussToy
New member
I have a Coolingmist system on my DuraMax diesel. I've been running it on my truck now for 2-3 years with no problems. The main reason I went with Coolingmist...all their components are made in the USA...the pumps and electronics. My system has two pumps and a seven gallon water/meth tank. I have mine set up to work off boost; however, you can also run it off EGT's and I think off airflow also.
You can never run straight meth...it will destroy your engine. The most you can safely run is a 50/50 solution. Don't get me wrong...there's guys out there that will tell you they are running more...well they're idiots!! There is a couple companies that sell a 50/50 pre-mixed solution...Banks and Snow Preformance (there may be more, but that's the only two I know of). I personally use Banks...they are a huge preformance company that's big into diesels, so I know they got their crap together...and it's going to be correct!! I watch for it to go on sell 10-15% off with free shipping...I think it ends up costing about $4 a gallon.
Or if you want...you can buy a 5 gallon barrel of methanol (I got mine from the local drag racing track). Then you can mix it yourself...the benefits to this is if 50% meth is to much for your engine...you can dial it back to just the right mixture of water and meth. Oh, something I forgot to mention, you have to make sure you use distilled water. If you don't...you'll could end up with a bunch of crud in your system...clogging up your injector and then your intake and top of your valves. Ever take an old water pipe off and it's 1/2 filled up with that white calcified crud...well that's all the impurities in the water...thats what will be in your engine.
This is the same issue you'll have if you use window washer fluid...most are about 30% methanol. But you again run into the problem of non-distilled water. That said...I know several guys that buy the $1 washer fluid at Walmart and dump it in and go!! Someday it will catch up with them! Now...there is some washer fluid you can not run...because some companies add a chemical to it that makes it where you can't use it. Unfortunately, I can't remember off the top of my head what it is. If I get a chance...I'll try and look it up and pass it on. That's why I just buy the pre-mixed stuff. Everything is already done...and I don't have to worry about it. Pour and go!!
Water/meth is great stuff for engines running boost...but you just have to be careful and run it the correct way.
Good luck
-Russel
You can never run straight meth...it will destroy your engine. The most you can safely run is a 50/50 solution. Don't get me wrong...there's guys out there that will tell you they are running more...well they're idiots!! There is a couple companies that sell a 50/50 pre-mixed solution...Banks and Snow Preformance (there may be more, but that's the only two I know of). I personally use Banks...they are a huge preformance company that's big into diesels, so I know they got their crap together...and it's going to be correct!! I watch for it to go on sell 10-15% off with free shipping...I think it ends up costing about $4 a gallon.
Or if you want...you can buy a 5 gallon barrel of methanol (I got mine from the local drag racing track). Then you can mix it yourself...the benefits to this is if 50% meth is to much for your engine...you can dial it back to just the right mixture of water and meth. Oh, something I forgot to mention, you have to make sure you use distilled water. If you don't...you'll could end up with a bunch of crud in your system...clogging up your injector and then your intake and top of your valves. Ever take an old water pipe off and it's 1/2 filled up with that white calcified crud...well that's all the impurities in the water...thats what will be in your engine.
This is the same issue you'll have if you use window washer fluid...most are about 30% methanol. But you again run into the problem of non-distilled water. That said...I know several guys that buy the $1 washer fluid at Walmart and dump it in and go!! Someday it will catch up with them! Now...there is some washer fluid you can not run...because some companies add a chemical to it that makes it where you can't use it. Unfortunately, I can't remember off the top of my head what it is. If I get a chance...I'll try and look it up and pass it on. That's why I just buy the pre-mixed stuff. Everything is already done...and I don't have to worry about it. Pour and go!!
Water/meth is great stuff for engines running boost...but you just have to be careful and run it the correct way.
Good luck
-Russel
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
Based on mostly tune ability and then quality. Some have reported that running kits off the MAF or other sensors are not as good as running it off boost.
Yeah, lean means your are running high air/fuel ratios. As you increase throttle your AFR's should go down. The stock setting is 14.7 I believe, 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel. The more fuel you add the lower the number. Our superchargers will make it run lean into the 15's and 16's, hence why our timing retards and some get ping at higher RPM's. If you get a wideband hooked up to your rig you can test your own rig and see how the AFR's vary at idle, half-throttle, or full throttle.
shootmymime
New member
as far as wide bands, has anyone been able to tap into the factory o2 / AF sensors and been able to read anything off them. i know there are different ones with 48 vs cali emissions and what not but can we do this with any sensors that are already on the vehicle?
Robb235
Senior Member
Sorry man, but the part about never being able to run straight methanol is completely false. At least for gasoline engines, I have no idea about diesels. There is no reason why a gasoline engine can't run 100% methanol injection. The reason the big companies sell 50/50 water/methanol is because anything over 50% MoH is considered a flammable liquid, and thus shipping it because a nightmare (read super expensive). Some people swear by a 50/50 mix. Others swear by a 30/70 mix, and yet others swear by a 100% mix of methanol. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve, and you're particular application.
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
It's not the engine I'm worried about but the pumps. Most pumps are not made to handle 100% methanol since it is considered a flammable liquid like you said.
Stupid California laws won't let methanol even be shipped or sold in most cases, except in the mountain counties. I might have to go up the hill to Grass Valley or Colfax and see if I can buy some 30% or 40% winter wiper fluid up there.
Robb235
Senior Member
Definitely agree with you on the pump. It needs to be rated to withstand 100% methanol. The engine on the other hand, will be just fine injecting pure meth.
foxrider56
New member
Just a quick question, what size does the 4wd adapter t have to be ?
Thanks
Thanks
Sculsz
New member
i think 14 is way too big. Im starting with 3gph then slowly mive up.
Sculsz
New member
I want to say its 3/8" but i will have to check when i get home. I did not need the t. I have a 2002.
I will check this evening unless someone else chimes in.
foxrider56
New member
Thanks from the looks of the parts list it's either 3/8" or 3mm(1/8") those seem to be the only two diffrent sizes
Sculsz
New member
I believe you are right. The 3mm hose is for the boost port to the fuel pressure regulator.
SCRunner12
New member
Please keep in mind the parts list on the first page is for the 2nd gen (black) SC. The first gen has some different tubing and T's needed for the install. I had used a T with the small tubing for the boost ports near the throttle body. I can't remember what size it was, but can check later and it went to the 4x4 vacuum line. Check out this first gen install and the last page is the vacuum guide. http://www.pballandmore.com/Download/1st_Gen_TRD_Supercharger_Install_Guide.pdf
shootmymime
New member
I didn't use half the bolts my black one came with. I didn't need to. I just used the factory hardware when I took the truck apart.
I'm kinda at a loss as to where the rest of the bolts go. I seriously just used 2 bolts. The long ass 170 mm on for the supercharger and another for the static tensioner bracket. I took the rest from the factory manifolds
I'm kinda at a loss as to where the rest of the bolts go. I seriously just used 2 bolts. The long ass 170 mm on for the supercharger and another for the static tensioner bracket. I took the rest from the factory manifolds
Sculsz
New member
I used more than two bolts but still I didn't use all of them either!
Sculsz
New member
I ordered my Coolingmist water/meth injector kit. I just went with a stage one for now along with a small nozzle, I believe 3gph. I don't want to shoot too much in. I need to keep an eye on my AFR gauge.
I also ordered a universal tank that I will use exclusively for the injector but I plan on running a open/close valve to my windshield washer tank in the event I run out in my universal tank. I will just be able to open a valve and continue driving.
Any thoughts on this or has anyone done something similar?
I also ordered a universal tank that I will use exclusively for the injector but I plan on running a open/close valve to my windshield washer tank in the event I run out in my universal tank. I will just be able to open a valve and continue driving.
Any thoughts on this or has anyone done something similar?
CdaleR4000si
New member
I have a question about these meth kits. Forgive me if this has been answered already (its hard to keep up with all of the stuff I'm reading about the SC). How often do you have to refill the reservoir? If you have a gallon tank, how many miles does it last. Obviously I am sure it depends on how heavy your foot is, just looking for a ballpark figure.
Thanks!
Thanks!
