The 3.4L TRD Supercharger Thread

[MTD]

Well now I'm entirely lost....I thought the idea behind the URD 7th injector was that you only needed it because the injector controller it came with was able to be mapped for part throttle and such conditions...

Nope, and URD has done a shit job of letting people know what is what. The 99 plus models all came with a wideband o2 sensor which the tuner that came with the Urd kit cannot modify the signal for. This means that the engine will read the extra fuel you try to add during part throttle boost and it will trim out the fuel in the ECU by pulling fuel from the main injectors. that's why I got the AEM fic instead of the Urd kit. Basically the AEM let's me modify any 02 signal as well as the signals going to my injectors and I can fool my ECU into thinking and that it is running at the AFR that it wants to. To do this with a 99 plus model and the seventh kit you have to buy in the additional piggyback computer that they offer to modify the wideband o2 signal.

I have found from both logging and just watching my afrs is that there is no need for a 7th or larger injectors for any boost less than 7 psi (stock pulley) at the top end. What really needs to be solved is part throttle boost where I am seeing AFR's anywhere from 14-15.

 

[nor_cal51501]

Nope, and URD has done a shit job of letting people know what is what. The 99 plus models all came with a wideband o2 sensor which the tuner that came with the Urd kit cannot modify the signal for. This means that the engine will read the extra fuel you try to add during part throttle boost and it will trim out the fuel in the ECU by pulling fuel from the main injectors. that's why I got the AEM fic instead of the Urd kit. Basically the AEM let's me modify any 02 signal as well as the signals going to my injectors and I can fool my ECU into thinking and that it is running at the AFR that it wants to. To do this with a 99 plus model and the seventh kit you have to buy in the additional piggyback computer that they offer to modify the wideband o2 signal.

I have found from both logging and just watching my afrs is that there is no need for a 7th or larger injectors for any boost less than 7 psi (stock pulley) at the top end. What really needs to be solved is part throttle boost where I am seeing AFR's anywhere from 14-15.

That makes sense. The main issue i am having is the engine retarding too far i believe. Right now WOT from stop generates a 2-stroke like power band. Its is low on power until around 4k rpm and then the boost kicks in and it pulls pretty well. Also, I'm still having stalling issues once in a while when going from full boost to emergency braking (yes, i do think I am driving a nascar and it corners like one as well...lol) So whats the solution? Am I able to tune at all to help fix this? I did buy a decent gauge to help tune. I bought the Innovate PSB-1 boost and AFR gauge. Side note...Opened the box and F*CK me....Had no idea it was so intense to install...

 

[MTD]

That makes sense. The main issue i am having is the engine retarding too far i believe. Right now WOT from stop generates a 2-stroke like power band. Its is low on power until around 4k rpm and then the boost kicks in and it pulls pretty well. Also, I'm still having stalling issues once in a while when going from full boost to emergency braking (yes, i do think I am driving a nascar and it corners like one as well...lol) So whats the solution? Am I able to tune at all to help fix this? I did buy a decent gauge to help tune. I bought the Innovate PSB-1 boost and AFR gauge. Side note...Opened the box and F*CK me....Had no idea it was so intense to install...

As far as what you are describing about the power band the only time I've ever experienced something like that was the first tune that I had on the FIC. It was dumping so much fuel in that it would actually bog the motor. I'm not sure if that's your problem but that's the only experience I have with something similar to that. honestly my recommendation would be to turn off the Urd and install your boost and AFR gauge. Do some logging to get an idea where you're at with numbers and then I would move forward with modifying the stock urd tune. If you don't know what your engine is doing before you start adding fuel there's no way you'll be able to build a good tune.

As far as the emergency braking and the stalling goes I highly doubt that it is these are the super or the 7th that is causing that issue. Are you manual or auto? That is a good place to start lol

Edit: duh you are Auto because you said it was an 01 my bad its late lol

 

[nor_cal51501]

As far as what you are describing about the power band the only time I've ever experienced something like that was the first tune that I had on the FIC. It was dumping so much fuel in that it would actually bog the motor. I'm not sure if that's your problem but that's the only experience I have with something similar to that. honestly my recommendation would be to turn off the Urd and install your boost and AFR gauge. Do some logging to get an idea where you're at with numbers and then I would move forward with modifying the stock urd tune. If you don't know what your engine is doing before you start adding fuel there's no way you'll be able to build a good tune.

As far as the emergency braking and the stalling goes I highly doubt that it is these are the super or the 7th that is causing that issue. Are you manual or auto? That is a good place to start lol

Edit: duh you are Auto because you said it was an 01 my bad its late lol

So I already know its the supercharger causing the stalling issue because it never did it before I installed it and started immediately after installing it. It also became less prevalent once I installed the 7th. I know its not drive train alone because i have a brand new trans and TC and its done it with both rear ends. I wonder if its something to do with going from full boost to braking while the TC is still locked and the motor hasn't spun down? I know if i bump it into neutral when i emergency brake then it doesn't stall out. Im surprised no one else has come across this or the lack of being able to properly tune with the 7th...makes me really unhappy to hear this because i wouldn't of invested so much with URD if I had known this prior....:Cry::redbrick:

 

[MTD]

So I already know its the supercharger causing the stalling issue because it never did it before I installed it and started immediately after installing it. It also became less prevalent once I installed the 7th. I know its not drive train because i have a brand new trans and TC and its done it with both rear ends. I wonder if its something to do with going from full boost to braking while the TC is still locked and the motor hasn't spun down? Im surprised no one else has come across this or the lack of being able to properly tune with the 7th...makes me really unhappy to hear this because i wouldn't of invested so much with URD if I had known this prior....:Cry::redbrick:

Nobody on here knows tuning or on any of the truck forums for that matter, with the exception of custom tacos. The reason that nobody has noticed it or said anything is because they don't know that it isn't tuned correctly. There's a gentleman from Chicago that I've been helping out or I should say I'm going to be helping out that supposedly had his truck tuned buy a shop. Unfortunately they fed him bs on top of the BS that he had gotten from Urd about the actual abilities of the kit. I have seen posts where Gadget has actually lied, knowingly, to people about the abilities of a better tuner just to sell his crap. And the reason that this whole system works out for him is because nobody knows enough to contradict him.

As for the stalling that is not good. I have never heard of that happening I'm wondering if it could be an issue with vacuum routing? have you looked at the lines going to the idle air control valve and made sure that they weren't cracked or damaged in some way?

 

[4Reak Show]

Nobody on here knows tuning or on any of the truck forums for that matter, with the exception of custom tacos. The reason that nobody has noticed it or said anything is because they don't know that it isn't tuned correctly. There's a gentleman from Chicago that I've been helping out or I should say I'm going to be helping out that supposedly had his truck tuned buy a shop. Unfortunately they fed him bs on top of the BS that he had gotten from Urd about the actual abilities of the kit. I have seen posts where Gadget has actually lied, knowingly, to people about the abilities of a better tuner just to sell his crap. And the reason that this whole system works out for him is because nobody knows enough to contradict him.

As for the stalling that is not good. I have never heard of that happening I'm wondering if it could be an issue with vacuum routing? have you looked at the lines going to the idle air control valve and made sure that they weren't cracked or damaged in some way?

Couldn't have put it better myself. Luckily for me, my crazy rig made of multiple toyotas happens to have the ECU and wiring of a 99 Tacoma and uses an 02 sensor as well as no EGR. Got super lucky when I was gathering parts from wrecking yard I guess. But anyway, the 02 versions of the 7th can absolutely by tuned in closed loop based on it giving the ECU a false reading, whereas the newer ones do need the AFR garbage.
As a side note, totally about to start a thread petitioning for URD to give actual customer service. Instead of belittling and trying to make every customer drive a f*cking race car. Some of us have different needs and desires... Just ask my wife...(just wanted to end on a funny note)

 

[gamefreakgc]

So I already know its the supercharger causing the stalling issue because it never did it before I installed it and started immediately after installing it. It also became less prevalent once I installed the 7th. I know its not drive train alone because i have a brand new trans and TC and its done it with both rear ends. I wonder if its something to do with going from full boost to braking while the TC is still locked and the motor hasn't spun down? I know if i bump it into neutral when i emergency brake then it doesn't stall out. Im surprised no one else has come across this or the lack of being able to properly tune with the 7th...makes me really unhappy to hear this because i wouldn't of invested so much with URD if I had known this prior....:Cry::redbrick:

Check your vacuum routing, that's what it sounds like to me. The supercharger is just an air pump, it won't make your engine stall in any circumstance unless it was installed wrong or one of the vacuum lines is wrong. Did you re-use any gaskets that might be leaking?

Also, I realized you're in my neck of the woods! If it helps you can drive by my place and I'll show you how mine is routed and we can see if something's wrong. I don't have the 7th injector though.

 

[MTD]

Couldn't have put it better myself. Luckily for me, my crazy rig made of multiple toyotas happens to have the ECU and wiring of a 99 Tacoma and uses an 02 sensor as well as no EGR. Got super lucky when I was gathering parts from wrecking yard I guess. But anyway, the 02 versions of the 7th can absolutely by tuned in closed loop based on it giving the ECU a false reading, whereas the newer ones do need the AFR garbage.
As a side note, totally about to start a thread petitioning for URD to give actual customer service. Instead of belittling and trying to make every customer drive a f*cking race car. Some of us have different needs and desires... Just ask my wife...(just wanted to end on a funny note)

Yep that is why I specified 99+ models :biggrin1: when I said they couldn't be tuned with the 7th. Essentially you are doing the same thing for both the wideband AFR sensor and O2, it is just done over a larger bandwidth with the AFR sensor and the URD box cant handle it. That being said I still prefer my AEM for all the years

I wouldn't even bother with going after URD, it is a good way to get kicked off of forums (most they sponsor). I am just going to provide a for people to tune their cars cheaply, more efficiently, safely, and most importantly easily. I am going to really buckle down and get this write up going on the FI/C install and tuning and then post it up on every forum I am apart of. :boink:

 

[I'mStock]

I've got a hard-on waiting for your FIC notes and findings [MENTION=94545]MTD[/MENTION]. I loved the MegaSquirts in my Miatas but the pricetag for the 4Runner versions scared me.

 

[awpsome]

There's a lot of hate in here with URD 7th.
I have a 2000 and tune closed loop no problem with my URD 7th. Yes I know what I'm doing. Yes I have a wideband. Yes when I say tune in closed I mean I tune in closed loop.

What's the major issue you guys are having? Or were having? Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I'll just back up URDs since I haven't had any bad things happen with them.

My trucks AFRs are happy throughout the entire powerband; I tend to drive casually most of the time. No racing for me.

 

[MTD]

There's a lot of hate in here with URD 7th.
I have a 2000 and tune closed loop no problem with my URD 7th. Yes I know what I'm doing. Yes I have a wideband. Yes when I say tune in closed I mean I tune in closed loop.

What's the major issue you guys are having? Or were having? Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I'll just back up URDs since I haven't had any bad things happen with them.

My trucks AFRs are happy throughout the entire powerband; I tend to drive casually most of the time. No racing for me.

No hate, I don't mean to sound like their stuff is no good (tuner is but that's minor). You probably have a manual and that is the reason you can tune closed loop. If you look back I specify auto 99+ models. Every manual 3rd gen had a narrowband o2 that the urd box can tune, but for people who don't know that it is an issue when they are shelling out $1k to tune their car... So my problem with URD has not been a failure of a product just communication and ethics really. Like I said previously I have seen posts where gadget has knowingly lied about his and other products just to make a sale.... So I just want people to know there are other and sometimes better options out there.


Edit:

Just noticed that you are an auto. In that case I have no idea how you are tuned with the URD system. My bet is that your AFR's were happy before you started, mine were at 13.8-14.6 at part throttle boost and 11.4-12.0 at WOT before tuning. What are you seeing for part throttle boost before and after tuning with the URD? If I am wrong I want to know, but I can say with 99% confidence that for someone who DD's their 99+ Runner there is no way that the URD box alone will hold a tune for closed loop boost.

 

[dhalsey]

Confused

Hi guys, bare with me but I'm confused on which kit I need for my truck. Can I get away with just the 7th injector kit or do I need the upgrade kit as well to tune the afr's? My truck is a 2002. [MENTION=94545]MTD[/MENTION] is this what you mean when you talk about the 7th not being tunable? That is a chunk of change if I need both.

7th injector kit.

Upgrade kit.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MTD]

Hi guys, bare with me but I'm confused on which kit I need for my truck. Can I get away with just the 7th injector kit or do I need the upgrade kit as well to tune the afr's? My truck is a 2002. [MENTION=94545]MTD[/MENTION] is this what you mean when you talk about the 7th not being tunable? That is a chunk of change if I need both.

7th injector kit.

Upgrade kit.

Thanks in advance.

The upgrade kit is to upgrade the old TRD FMU which TRD quit making. You don't NEED either you can drive the car with the S/C without damaging it, without fuel mods. It seems like that the hype around the 7th has given everyone the impression that they need to have it otherwise their engine will blow up the first time they romp on it, which is not true at all.

As for what you would need if you want to go the URD route (don't recommend it for you):

Underdog Racing Development

and

Underdog Racing Development

That would allow you to tune both closed and open loop, but costs $1150 with shipping.:wtf:

I promise I will have my AEM FI/C 6 install and tuning tutorial up by the end of the weekend. If you went that route all you would need would be the FI/C and if you wanted you could build or buy a piggyback harness. I am in for a total of $400 because I bought my FIC used, but they are only $380 new with free shipping. Basically does everything those 2 URD units do for half cost and uses much better and more intuitive software. Check it out:

Amazon.com: AEM 30-1910 6 Cylinder Fuel & Ignition Controller: Automotive

 

[dhalsey]

The upgrade kit is to upgrade the old TRD FMU which TRD quit making. You don't NEED either you can drive the car with the S/C without damaging it, without fuel mods. It seems like that the hype around the 7th has given everyone the impression that they need to have it otherwise their engine will blow up the first time they romp on it, which is not true at all.

As for what you would need if you want to go the URD route (don't recommend it for you):

Underdog Racing Development

and

Underdog Racing Development

That would allow you to tune both closed and open loop, but costs $1150 with shipping.:wtf:

I promise I will have my AEM FI/C 6 install and tuning tutorial up by the end of the weekend. If you went that route all you would need would be the FI/C and if you wanted you could build or buy a piggyback harness. I am in for a total of $400 because I bought my FIC used, but they are only $380 new with free shipping. Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/AEM-30-1910-Cylinder-Ignition-Controller/dp/B001DX58KA

I am definitely going to do my homework. I'm looking forward to learning what you have discovered. We all appreciate the work that you are doing.

 

[4Reak Show]

No hate, I don't mean to sound like their stuff is no good (tuner is but that's minor). You probably have a manual and that is the reason you can tune closed loop. If you look back I specify auto 99+ models. Every manual 3rd gen had a narrowband o2 that the urd box can tune, but for people who don't know that it is an issue when they are shelling out $1k to tune their car... So my problem with URD has not been a failure of a product just communication and ethics really. Like I said previously I have seen posts where gadget has knowingly lied about his and other products just to make a sale.... So I just want people to know there are other and sometimes better options out there.

Dude, DEAD on. I think the products are peachy overall and certainly produce the results most of us are after. I would just hope that for the buck, we'd get more bang in the customer service and information department. For example my custom build is VERY different than all of your actual 3rd gens (different transmission, different ratios etc) and instead of simply answering my questions I got a run around about removing my K&N setup or whatever and trying to sell me another product instead of helping me with the first one I have. He didn't bother to gather more info and didn't seem all that genuinely interested in my concerns.
Like you said, no hate at all. I'm happy as hell with my performance for what I use it for. But people should have some additional options and info when they have as much pride and love for these rigs as we do. Constructive criticism I guess? Either way, still pleased.

 

[shootmymime]

I couldn't have explained that any better! ^

 

[masphx]

So I have a chance to buy a 7th injector used at a decent price. I would rather go this route since it is a simple drop and drive comparded to the meth and a tune. From what I'm reading recently on this thread it would not be a bad route as I have a 98 5speed correct?

 

[MTD]

So I have a chance to buy a 7th injector used at a decent price. I would rather go this route since it is a simple drop and drive comparded to the meth and a tune. From what I'm reading recently on this thread it would not be a bad route as I have a 98 5speed correct?

Well its not terrible but it isn't a drop in and go kinda thing you still have to tune it. But if ya got it cheap it should do what you want it too and pretty well.

You dont have to go meth by the way if you went with the fic, not sure where that's coming from. I may go meth yet but its only for big power I'm going to shoot for the low three hundreds.

 

[MTD]

Just an update for those people who are waiting on my write up. I started the text portion tonight and I'm quickly realizing that this is going to be one heck of a book. I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for anyone who wants to do this with diagrams charts and other wonderful graphic illustrations. It should pretty much eliminate the barrier for anyone to try the AEM.

 

[SCRunner12]

So I have a chance to buy a 7th injector used at a decent price. I would rather go this route since it is a simple drop and drive comparded to the meth and a tune. From what I'm reading recently on this thread it would not be a bad route as I have a 98 5speed correct?

I'd pick it up. People have been bashing the URD stuff a lot lately, but it works for the majority of the users. It will take some adjusting, but you'll end up with a solid set up as long as you aren't trying to push your set up to the limits.