The 3.4L TRD Supercharger Thread

[Speedy]

Thanks, this is super helpful to compare to! I haven't tracked timing in a third gear pull for a while, I wonder if that's the difference? Only one place I can safely go that fast. Your second gear timing is pretty close to what I'm seeing, you have a few more degrees though. I actually don't really care what timing I run in a third gear pull, since Ill never see it lol! I also run about half the methanol that you do, my nozzle is approximately 3.5 gph, that is if our pumps are the same PSI.

I have a few more tricks I'm going to try. If it's my fuel, I'm trying Boostane, which has some nice dyno runs showing it increased power by advancing timing. Not expensive either.

If that doesn't work, I'll try MAF tuning into tricking the engine the load is less. Maybe even fiddle with the IAT... not sure how our ECU's work though.

If that doesn't work I'll try a step colder plugs. I asked the facebook group and several run IK24's, especially if they run the 2.1" pulley.

If by all that my timing hasn't budged then I'll live with it!

First thing I'd do is get a bigger meth nozzle. The one I started out with wasn't anywhere near up to the task. Ideally you want the AFR to drop about 1 point when the meth kicks in, so my AFR is tuned for 12.5 0 13 and with the meth it's 11.5 - 12.0. It's been a while but I think I went over that in the video on the meth kit install.

 

[gamefreakgc]

First thing I'd do is get a bigger meth nozzle. The one I started out with wasn't anywhere near up to the task. Ideally you want the AFR to drop about 1 point when the meth kicks in, so my AFR is tuned for 12.5 0 13 and with the meth it's 11.5 - 12.0. It's been a while but I think I went over that in the video on the meth kit install.

Funny thing is, it does drop 1 point AFR. I took it for a spin without the pump hooked up post-cams and it was in the mid to high 12's. Now it's in the high 11's. I think my pump is higher PSI so the nozzle is actually flowing a lot more than it says.

 

[Speedy]

Funny thing is, it does drop 1 point AFR. I took it for a spin without the pump hooked up post-cams and it was in the mid to high 12's. Now it's in the high 11's. I think my pump is higher PSI so the nozzle is actually flowing a lot more than it says.

Ok, you may be in good shape. I did a quick test on the way to work today and did a pull in 2nd gear.....it was mostly 16-17 deg with a spike to 22 right at the end of the revlimit. Timing builds with RPM as you know.

I'd get out and do a good pull in 3rd to verify. Things happen fast in 2nd and in 3rd you get more data points. It could simply be a matter of granularity of the data log.

I do full pulls in 3rd just about every day on the way to work LOL. 110MPH in the 4Runner doesn't feel like any big deal anymore. Pulls in the Hellcat hit 160 plus, so yeah :flame:

 

[gamefreakgc]

For those of you looking to score a supercharger on the cheap, ran across this ad when comparing pricing for my 4Runner (no I am not selling lol): https://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1997-toyota-4runner-4x4-trd/6649794438.html. $3000 for a grey supercharger and 7th injector, plus you get a free 4Runner with it!

Also came across this beauty:

https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/d/2000-totyota-4-runner-limited/6667713494.html

I normally don't like custom pain jobs but this was well done. He even had custom upholstery on the seats. Not a fan of the wheels but the 4Runner looks good. Could be yours for $14,000.

Edit: Here's another supercharged one for cheap. However there has to be something wrong with it, no way it's in this good of shape for 4k: https://appleton.craigslist.org/cto/d/2000-toyota-4runner-limited/6671342723.html

 

[dunktap]

Struggling with ping & looking for input- I have just installed:
- 7th injector kit,
- new IK24 plugs,
- new fuel pump walbro 190 that came with the 7th kit

and I am still struggling with ping at low rpms when accelerating. I have always run 93 octane fuel & I replaced the fuel filter 30k miles ago when I put the SC on. Worth noting: the sc ran perfect with the stock pulley(still using stock pulley) for the first 25k or so. The ping has just recently worsened this summer.

Also I have started noticing the ping when I am just idle & I rev the engine up to high rpms.

Gadget us saying to swap the fuel filter and get injectors cleaned, but I just wanted to check with you guys to see if you had any ideas before I spend the time pulling the injectors out.

Thanks!

 

[gamefreakgc]

Struggling with ping & looking for input- I have just installed:
- 7th injector kit,
- new IK24 plugs,
- new fuel pump walbro 190 that came with the 7th kit

and I am still struggling with ping at low rpms when accelerating. I have always run 93 octane fuel & I replaced the fuel filter 30k miles ago when I put the SC on. Worth noting: the sc ran perfect with the stock pulley(still using stock pulley) for the first 25k or so. The ping has just recently worsened this summer.

Also I have started noticing the ping when I am just idle & I rev the engine up to high rpms.

Gadget us saying to swap the fuel filter and get injectors cleaned, but I just wanted to check with you guys to see if you had any ideas before I spend the time pulling the injectors out.

Thanks!

Pinging with the engine at no load is not normal. I also think it's a fuel related issue, follow the advice given. You can put 2 of those fuel injector cleaners in and see what it does, but it will most likely come back once the cleaner goes through the tank.

Fuel filter isn't that hard and can be done in an hour or so for the first time, just DON'T USE A NORMAL BOX WRENCH! Use only a brake line or crow's foot wrench or you are almost guarenteed to strip the compression nut.

Swap/clean injectors last. Also, any reason why you are running IK24's? Do you have the 2.1" pulley?

 

[4Reak Show]

Struggling with ping & looking for input- I have just installed:

- 7th injector kit,

- new IK24 plugs,

- new fuel pump walbro 190 that came with the 7th kit



and I am still struggling with ping at low rpms when accelerating. I have always run 93 octane fuel & I replaced the fuel filter 30k miles ago when I put the SC on. Worth noting: the sc ran perfect with the stock pulley(still using stock pulley) for the first 25k or so. The ping has just recently worsened this summer.



Also I have started noticing the ping when I am just idle & I rev the engine up to high rpms.



Gadget us saying to swap the fuel filter and get injectors cleaned, but I just wanted to check with you guys to see if you had any ideas before I spend the time pulling the injectors out.



Thanks!

So has the ping started since the 7th was installed? Or has it ever ran "correctly" with the 7th kit? You need to get some data pulled when it occuring. Could be an 02 sensor is stuck reading rich (rare) which would cause the ECM to pull fuel. Or MAF reading too low (common) could cause this as well. (Engine is pulling more air than ECM detects and so the mixture would be too lean accordingly.)

Basically try and get some data and share with us the data when the issue is occuring. Important pieces are Grams per second from the MAF, RPM, 02 voltages, fuel trims and timing advance. If those are all normal then it's a mechanical issue line fuel or something. You need to rule out a failing sensor. I doubt a fuel filter would be starving that much. Not on a Toyota at least. Chevys maybe.

Hope that helps

 

[dunktap]

Pinging with the engine at no load is not normal. I also think it's a fuel related issue, follow the advice given. You can put 2 of those fuel injector cleaners in and see what it does, but it will most likely come back once the cleaner goes through the tank.

Fuel filter isn't that hard and can be done in an hour or so for the first time

--I was able to swap the fuel filter with no issue. The ping is still there :/

Swap/clean injectors last. Also, any reason why you are running IK24's? Do you have the 2.1" pulley?

-- the only reason I put the IK24s in is that they came with the 7th injector kit. The ping has been pretty much exactly the same before/after the 7th kit install. After I installed the fuel filter, I messed around with adding more fuel and adding more timing retard today. That did not change anything. Still really bad ping from 2k-3k rpms and it does continue through the power band. I ordered a new pcv valve and i might spray off the maf sensor to see if that helps. I think I am just going to have to end up pulling the injectors out even though I have heard 99% of the time that is not an issue. :/

 

[dunktap]

So has the ping started since the 7th was
installed? Or has it ever ran "correctly" with the 7th kit?

the ping was the reason i installed the 7th kit. It was pinging pretty much in the exact same manner before I installed the kit. However, the truck ran fine with the supercharger for about 25k miles without any fuel mods.


Basically try and get some data and share with us the data when the issue is occuring. Important pieces are Grams per second from the MAF, RPM, 02 voltages, fuel trims and timing advance. If those are all normal then it's a mechanical issue line fuel or something. You need to rule out a failing sensor. I doubt a fuel filter would be starving that much. Not on a Toyota at least. Chevys maybe.

Hope that helps

--Thanks I'll try to get some data pulled to share. I think I will need to wire the AFR gauge to the AIC so that I can record AFRs. I'll do some pulls and screen record with the R4 software. Maybe that will shed some light.

 

[4Reak Show]

-- the only reason I put the IK24s in is that they came with the 7th injector kit. The ping has been pretty much exactly the same before/after the 7th kit install. After I installed the fuel filter, I messed around with adding more fuel and adding more timing retard today. That did not change anything. Still really bad ping from 2k-3k rpms and it does continue through the power band. I ordered a new pcv valve and i might spray off the maf sensor to see if that helps. I think I am just going to have to end up pulling the injectors out even though I have heard 99% of the time that is not an issue. :/

So this is gonna sound weird, but please don't take offense. It took me quite awhile to actually understand the R4 software myself so let's make sure you're on the same page. For me, the stock tune on the 7th injector kit wasn't enough to eliminate ping. Not by a long shot. I had to add a bunch of fuel and a bunch of timing retard way down the line. I think I did an additional 10% twice over on both graphs A and B and added more on the lower numbers as well. And even tho my AFR is at mid-high 11's pretty much anytime under boost, I still pings here and there on hot days. I've just chalked it up to the nature of the beast and avoid those rpm/load areas (2-3K rpm).

As far as programming goes, You have to change values in the cells and THEN hit the "write data" button. Otherwise you're not actually altering the programming. I also had to lower my boost enrichment value down to .5 or 1 psi (I forget) so that the 7th kit will start adding fuel anytime I'm in a boosted state (which is anything above atmospheric or 0 psi/0 vacuum). I also have a manual so that plays into it as I tend to not floor it all the time and generally float around 2-3k for normally driving and take to 3-4K for aggressive accelerations. I see no reason to really push it beyond that. Getting up to 5-6k hasn't shown me much more power and my boost when floored is around 6-7 psi all day long. For me, I just learned to enjoy it as it is. It's never gonna be a racecar.

Your opinion may vary.

 

[gamefreakgc]

-- the only reason I put the IK24s in is that they came with the 7th injector kit. The ping has been pretty much exactly the same before/after the 7th kit install. After I installed the fuel filter, I messed around with adding more fuel and adding more timing retard today. That did not change anything. Still really bad ping from 2k-3k rpms and it does continue through the power band. I ordered a new pcv valve and i might spray off the maf sensor to see if that helps. I think I am just going to have to end up pulling the injectors out even though I have heard 99% of the time that is not an issue. :/

IK24's might be too cold for the stock pulley. I'm no spark plug expert, but that's 3 steps colder for only 6-7 PSI of boost.

 

[dunktap]

So this is gonna sound weird, but please don't take offense. It took me quite awhile to actually understand the R4 software myself so let's make sure you're on the same page. For me, the stock tune on the 7th injector kit wasn't enough to eliminate ping. Not by a long shot. I had to add a bunch of fuel and a bunch of timing retard way down the line. I think I did an additional 10% twice over on both graphs A and B and added more on the lower numbers as well. And even tho my AFR is at mid-high 11's pretty much anytime under boost, I still pings here and there on hot days. I've just chalked it up to the nature of the beast and avoid those rpm/load areas (2-3K rpm).

As far as programming goes, You have to change values in the cells and THEN hit the "write data" button. Otherwise you're not actually altering the programming. I also had to lower my boost enrichment value down to .5 or 1 psi (I forget) so that the 7th kit will start adding fuel anytime I'm in a boosted state (which is anything above atmospheric or 0 psi/0 vacuum). I also have a manual so that plays into it as I tend to not floor it all the time and generally float around 2-3k for normally driving and take to 3-4K for aggressive accelerations. I see no reason to really push it beyond that. Getting up to 5-6k hasn't shown me much more power and my boost when floored is around 6-7 psi all day long. For me, I just learned to enjoy it as it is. It's never gonna be a racecar.

Your opinion may vary.

This is really good info. I'll definitely keep that in mind. The inconsistency I am seeing when troubleshooting is that I seem to be experiencing knock when I get into boost at all & in some cases before I get into boost( I even am hearing knock when reving to high rpms when in park). This leads me to believe that there could be some sort of carbon build up that needs to be cleaned out. I am planning to run some sea foam through the fuel & am going to replace the pcv valve. Really hoping that helps.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[dunktap]

IK24's might be too cold for the stock pulley. I'm no spark plug expert, but that's 3 steps colder for only 6-7 PSI of boost.

Yeah i was a bit hesitant to install them but I guess I was just blindly trusting the URD kit. Thanks for pointing that out I'll likely switch back to the IK22s since I'm just running the stock pulley.

I'll keep you guys updated on what happens after the sea foam/pcv swap. Thank you guys for your help!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[4Reak Show]

This is really good info. I'll definitely keep that in mind. The inconsistency I am seeing when troubleshooting is that I seem to be experiencing knock when I get into boost at all & in some cases before I get into boost( I even am hearing knock when reving to high rpms when in park). This leads me to believe that there could be some sort of carbon build up that needs to be cleaned out. I am planning to run some sea foam through the fuel & am going to replace the pcv valve. Really hoping that helps.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I hope those simple things is your answer. If not, my next guess would be Mass Airflow sensor giving you a lean condition when boosted. Keep us posted and good luck

 

[dunktap]

Update: still pinging. I ran seafoam through the fuel and it is still running very rough. I also pulled off the PCV valve and it doesnt seem to be sticking.

I mentioned this to gadget and this was his response:

"You can try adding a little bit more retard in the area where it is pinging and see if that will resolve it. If not, you might have one of those engines that does not take well to the supercharger. There are a few out there. I call them ping fit trucks.

It seems a few engines have abnormally higher compression than the norm from the way it was machined at the factory and that causes them to knock. If you have one of those, you really can't tune it out.

The only effective way to deal with it is to remove the supercharger, or pull the heads and install thicker head gaskets to decompress the engine. Lets hope you don't have to go that far.

Steve (Gadget) Dopler"

So.. what do you guys think? Is it time to throw in the towel and pull off the SC?

 

[4Reak Show]

Hmmm in my opinion that sounds a bit fishy. The 7th system should still be able to compensate the timing to reduce ping, regardless of "abnormal compression". Of course, I don't know all the software and all that, but based on how it delays a signal to trick the ECM into a different timing schedule, it should work on any vehicle really.

That all being said, if it were me I would still try anything that could cause ping, specifically an abnormally lean condition. A SC is a good ass upgrade. And instead of tossing it I would at least try a new OEM brand MAF and new OEM set of 02's (or AFR sensors depending on which system you have). Those are the major contributing factors of the air/fuel ratio.

I don't see that you've gathered any scan data or hooked up an aftermarket AFR sensor to see if it actually is running too lean. That is key to helping you solve this.

I like the URD system. It's easy, it seems to work and it's simple. However I haven't had much success with them helping to solve problems. He may very well be right. That there are just some random 3.4's in the world that didn't have good enough quality control from the largest, most successful, longest lasting vehicle manufacturer... But I just can't see that. If, they maybe had some evidence of a certain number of VIN's with that issue, or a range of casting numbers to back up that claim, then yeah that would make sense. But that "there are just some out there" that can't be tuned? Unless there's another common denominator, I just can't get behind that reasoning. But again, that's just me.

If you want to sell your SC I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here that would love it.


Edit: I wanted to add that you could confirm his claim by checking compression. If it is crazy crazy high, then his theory could hold some water. But, there are tons of people who have done a head job, had them machined, and used standard head gaskets (which would increase compression) and had no problem tuning.... I am a member of that category.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Update: still pinging. I ran seafoam through the fuel and it is still running very rough. I also pulled off the PCV valve and it doesnt seem to be sticking.

I mentioned this to gadget and this was his response:

"You can try adding a little bit more retard in the area where it is pinging and see if that will resolve it. If not, you might have one of those engines that does not take well to the supercharger. There are a few out there. I call them ping fit trucks.

It seems a few engines have abnormally higher compression than the norm from the way it was machined at the factory and that causes them to knock. If you have one of those, you really can't tune it out.

The only effective way to deal with it is to remove the supercharger, or pull the heads and install thicker head gaskets to decompress the engine. Lets hope you don't have to go that far.

Steve (Gadget) Dopler"

So.. what do you guys think? Is it time to throw in the towel and pull off the SC?

It's worth bringing to a performance shop and let them look it over. Custom builds with forced induction have pinging issues all the time and they will know where to look and how to tune it out.

If you want to see if you have too much carbon, run some seafoam through the intake. It removes carbon off the pistons and makes a fun smoke show!

 

[pygmy warrior]

You could run a bore scope into the cylinder and have a look at the pistons for carbon buildup.

 

[White Stripe]

Update: still pinging. I ran seafoam through the fuel and it is still running very rough. I also pulled off the PCV valve and it doesnt seem to be sticking.

I mentioned this to gadget and this was his response:

"You can try adding a little bit more retard in the area where it is pinging and see if that will resolve it. If not, you might have one of those engines that does not take well to the supercharger. There are a few out there. I call them ping fit trucks.

It seems a few engines have abnormally higher compression than the norm from the way it was machined at the factory and that causes them to knock. If you have one of those, you really can't tune it out.

The only effective way to deal with it is to remove the supercharger, or pull the heads and install thicker head gaskets to decompress the engine. Lets hope you don't have to go that far.

Steve (Gadget) Dopler"

So.. what do you guys think? Is it time to throw in the towel and pull off the SC?

Gadget is not really a mechanic. Basically he started out trying to supercharge his 4runner and the people that helped him or hired he used to make products. If u read his old build threads he is always having others do stuff for him. His stock 7TH injector programming does not force open loop until 7psi. Problem is that pinging can occur below 7psi. So u have to set the program to force open loop at like 2psi. Personally I have found split second (the company that makes the 7TH injector modules for urd) way more helpful. Water meth also does a great job at eliminating ping.

 

[BLKTACO]

Here's something interesting that might help some people.

At first i had a hell of a time tuning this thing. I just couldn't get the ping out even with aggressive timing maps. That all changed one day when I decided to go WOT to check my AFRs. Somewhere in the high RPM PSI range I lost power. This was with the stock fueling on the 7th but I decided to just leave the high RPMs alone for a while until I could get some data logging equipment.

To my surprise the ping was almost eliminated in HG/LR. So I just drove around like that for a while. Until the other day when I punched it and got above 4k RPM. Now the ping was back. And I was even getting it in vacuum. I reset my ECU by pulling the fuse for an hour and used the same map I was using previously which was a pretty much base map with slightly higher values across the board.

Its better but still pings. I even went WOT as long as I could going up hills but couldn't get it above 4k without going over 90mph. Which I don't like to do because a ticket at those speeds is not good. However there is something to getting the RPMs up and tuning for the low end.

Gadget says because im fueled for lean out now and as a result the timing advances. Which makes sense but im also curious how the values in the timing map affects the low end. This is also stated in the U tune guide

A question i dont think anyone will ever know for sure is If you have too much or too little timing pulled up high how does that affect the way the ECU sets timing for the rest?

I also emailed SplitSec and asked for some maps because they told me that 5 degrees of timing was what most trucks need. But i was not sure exactly what that meant. I got a map which I was told was an example of that the ping happy trucks sometimes need. However it is preferred not to have to use this much. Its basically the base map with the 2000-3000RPM range modified to try and curb the problem areas. Heres what it looks like.

I do believe I have one of these ping happy trucks. Which is a huge bummer after all this money and a hell of a lot of time went into this. Hopefully I can remedy this. I suppose ill get a camera and take a look at the pistons, but i did get a MotorVac Carbon clean done before installing the S/C. Maybe it didn't do much to remove the carbon on the pistons.