The 3.4L TRD Supercharger Thread

[Black798]

That's awesome! That mirrors my experience as well, the supercharger is nice but give it a good tune and it's like a whole new engine! I looked at the MAP3ECU and the ability to advance timing, then I realized that: the stock knock sensors at WOT are still in play so if I run too much timing and it knocks it'll pull it back out. But the installation is like what, all of 7 wires or something crazy simple like that?

Speaking of timing, were you able to gain that timing back at WOT? I think you said you were at 12 degrees. A note on timing: if you pull say, -2 degrees of timing on the ignition map it'll show 14 degrees at the ECU, but really it's only at 12. Not sure how it shows when you add timing though, I'm not able to do that.

Sucks about the transmission though, hope it can be fixed.

I think it was something like 10 wires to install but it was super super easy. The only thing I dont like is it cant control the injector pulse width like the aem fic does. After resetting the stock ecu Im not sitting at 17 degrees at wot and still without doing anything AFRs in the low 11s which I honestly think is too rich for this low of boost.

Advancing and retarding the timing is the same as with the other piggybacks where you have to actually do the math to know where it truly is. I need to check with a timing light to confirm the advance function is working. You make a good point about the factory knock sensors pulling the timing right back out which could be a nice safety net. I mainly plan on using the timing advance feature in vacuum to gain some mpgs, also thinking under light loads I will end up leaning out to 15.1 ish for the AFR.

Transmission is a major bummer. I spent close to an hour on the phone with John from IPT today and I gotta say man does that guy know his shit and can he talk lol. The jist of the conversation was that I could rebuild it myself but chances are the valve body itself is wearing out and he strongly recommended I have the trans fully built by him if I really dont want anymore issues. I gave it a lot of thought and despite the steep price its the route I will be going at the end of the month.

Very cool, would the URD program work in similar fashion? I haven't even installed in yet. Thinking about it I didnt even receive a disk for the software. Maybe its a download file now? Need to contact URD about it. I'm getting my afr bung welded in tomorrow.

You have an auto or 5-speed? Are you using a 7th injector or just the stock injectors?

Id assume its similar but cant speak from experience. I know one major difference is that the URD 7th does not allow on the fly tuning like the MAPecu does. Im using stock injectors for my tuning, never been a fan of the 7th injector for quite a few reasons. Biggest being that the intake was not designed to distribute fuel, so you are kinda just hoping it goes where it needs to. The stock injectors are handling the stock pulley just fine well see how they do with the 2.2 pulley when I put that on in a few weeks.

My trans is the auto 4 speed with a trasgo shift kit

 

[gamefreakgc]

After resetting the stock ecu Im not sitting at 17 degrees at wot and still without doing anything AFRs in the low 11s which I honestly think is too rich for this low of boost.

I was about to say you're crazy but then I forgot you are at elevation! That's a good reference point for those that are, glad to know there's plenty of fuel to tune with. I bet you can run the 2.2" with stock injectors. How does the MAP3ECU control the injectors? Please don't tell me it's all done by the O2 sensor!

Gadget mentions that 11.8 is the perfect balance of protection, cooling, and performance. My dyno runs and tuning so far also back up this claim (unless you start running alternative fuels).

 

[Bandit Runner]

So I sent an email to Gadget at URD asking him about gapping the spark plugs that come with the 7th injector kit.

His only response was "The iridium plugs are left at .032"

So I asked him why it says to gap the new plugs to .043" in the instructions?

His only response was "Completely different spark plug type."

I told him this was confusing if he was instructing us to gap some different plugs that didn't come with the kit, and he might consider updating the instructions.

His only response again was "The iridium plugs are left at .032"

So I asked him again, if you're saying to leave the plugs at .032, why does it say to regap them to .043" in your instructions?

No response from him at all this time.

This was all very frustrating, and I'm more than a little disappointed with him at this point. I'm sure he is a busy guy, but I would expect a little more explanation, than just one-liners that barely tell me anything at all.

 

[Black798]

I was about to say you're crazy but then I forgot you are at elevation! That's a good reference point for those that are, glad to know there's plenty of fuel to tune with. I bet you can run the 2.2" with stock injectors. How does the MAP3ECU control the injectors? Please don't tell me it's all done by the O2 sensor!

Gadget mentions that 11.8 is the perfect balance of protection, cooling, and performance. My dyno runs and tuning so far also back up this claim (unless you start running alternative fuels).

Based off the fact Im able to run my afrs down into the 9s with the stock pulley I thin the stock injectors will handle the 2.2 just fine. The MAPecu controls the injectors by skewing the maf voltages to get the desired result as far as I know. The problem I have found is that in closed loop the stock computer will trim the extra fuel out almost instantly so its like trying to hit a target thats moving in two directions. Theres also the issue that if you go too far on the maf skewing it pops a CEL. Ive found that for tuning closed loop I can easily get the desired result purely through o2 skewing and so far it seems to hold the tune fine even after several hours of driving. Well see how that pans out in the future. I need to play around with it some more and figure out the best way to use all the features to get the best tune thats consistent. The whole computerized piggyback tuning is quite the change from the old school distributor and carb tuning I am used to.

Personally I think the 11.8 is a bit fat for how little boost these motors are really seeing and think the 12.1 area is more ideal but having some extra protection certainly isnt bad and you can run more aggressive timing at 11.8.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Based off the fact Im able to run my afrs down into the 9s with the stock pulley I thin the stock injectors will handle the 2.2 just fine. The MAPecu controls the injectors by skewing the maf voltages to get the desired result as far as I know. The problem I have found is that in closed loop the stock computer will trim the extra fuel out almost instantly so its like trying to hit a target thats moving in two directions. Theres also the issue that if you go too far on the maf skewing it pops a CEL. Ive found that for tuning closed loop I can easily get the desired result purely through o2 skewing and so far it seems to hold the tune fine even after several hours of driving. Well see how that pans out in the future. I need to play around with it some more and figure out the best way to use all the features to get the best tune thats consistent. The whole computerized piggyback tuning is quite the change from the old school distributor and carb tuning I am used to.

Personally I think the 11.8 is a bit fat for how little boost these motors are really seeing and think the 12.1 area is more ideal but having some extra protection certainly isnt bad and you can run more aggressive timing at 11.8.

Yup, you must have read my build thread lol. 12.1-12.2 is my AFR target and I picked up roughly 17 RWHP from leaning it out from about 11.3-11.5 I had before. But I do have water/meth injection which keeps the pinging at bay. Check out the Virtual Dyno program, it's free. It's really cool in taking your data logs and turning them into power graphs. The number doesn't matter, it's the increase you are looking for. I do 2nd gear WOT pulls, save the logs and then compare. Just be sure to use the same stretch of road and have the same traction, tire slip ruins the data log.

Toyota ECU's are hard to tune, there's no way around that. How I have my tune is in closed loop I basically use primarily the O2 sensor and adjust the fuel table to keep the STFT's close to 0, then at WOT I have to use the injector table to fuel the top end. It's like designing two different tunes and then getting them to work in harmony. MAF tuning can get tricky (which is why I don't use it), my MAF sensor will read as high of 4.7 volts and if you go over 5.0 volts the ECU throws a code and will royally screw up the tune, which means you then have to clamp the voltage. If MAF is your only source of fuel control, you might run out of headroom for more fuel and be forced to run a bigger intake pipe or a MAF-less system and use a MAP sensor instead for fueling.

 

[gamefreakgc]

So I sent an email to Gadget at URD asking him about gapping the spark plugs that come with the 7th injector kit.

His only response was "The iridium plugs are left at .032"

So I asked him why it says to gap the new plugs to .043" in the instructions?

His only response was "Completely different spark plug type."

I told him this was confusing if he was instructing us to gap some different plugs that didn't come with the kit, and he might consider updating the instructions.

His only response again was "The iridium plugs are left at .032"

So I asked him again, if you're saying to leave the plugs at .032, why does it say to regap them to .043" in your instructions?

No response from him at all this time.

This was all very frustrating, and I'm more than a little disappointed with him at this point. I'm sure he is a busy guy, but I would expect a little more explanation, than just one-liners that barely tell me anything at all.

Was the 7th injector instructions saying to keep the coppers at .043? Anyway, just get IK22's and call it a day.

 

[Toy2play]

Does anyone have the tuning software for the URD 7th injector? Tried contacting them and I'm getting no response.

 

[Black798]

Yup, you must have read my build thread lol. 12.1-12.2 is my AFR target and I picked up roughly 17 RWHP from leaning it out from about 11.3-11.5 I had before. But I do have water/meth injection which keeps the pinging at bay. Check out the Virtual Dyno program, it's free. It's really cool in taking your data logs and turning them into power graphs. The number doesn't matter, it's the increase you are looking for. I do 2nd gear WOT pulls, save the logs and then compare. Just be sure to use the same stretch of road and have the same traction, tire slip ruins the data log.

Toyota ECU's are hard to tune, there's no way around that. How I have my tune is in closed loop I basically use primarily the O2 sensor and adjust the fuel table to keep the STFT's close to 0, then at WOT I have to use the injector table to fuel the top end. It's like designing two different tunes and then getting them to work in harmony. MAF tuning can get tricky (which is why I don't use it), my MAF sensor will read as high of 4.7 volts and if you go over 5.0 volts the ECU throws a code and will royally screw up the tune, which means you then have to clamp the voltage. If MAF is your only source of fuel control, you might run out of headroom for more fuel and be forced to run a bigger intake pipe or a MAF-less system and use a MAP sensor instead for fueling.

Ill have to get that virtual dyno and start playing with it. That would kinda help confirm my butt dyno results.

I did some more research this afternoon and correct me if Im wrong here but I think Ive got the differences between the AEM fic an the mapecu figured out in how they tune. To me it seems in closed loop we are both using the o2 skewing to re calibrate the ecus "target" to get us lower AFRs. The difference is you are able to tune your injectors directly to keep your fuel trims near zero where I am relying on the stock ecu to control the injectors. As far as I can tell there aren't any ill effects to this, it holds the tune fine because after awhile my short term fuel trims go to long term where the ecu now will consistently use them. The only limiting factor is how much larger I can go with injectors, I have been reading it will work with up to 2x the size which is plenty for my use.

As far as open loop tuning with the maf values it is definitely tricky and youre right that I dont have much overhead before it pops a cel because the value of the maf goes over 5. This may end up being what forces me to the next step up in injectors which I believe are 305ccs from LC engineering. I could run in maf elimination mode and clamp the voltage at 5 but then Im not sure how it is able to add fuel beyond the 5 volt limit. the advantage there though is that I can remove the factory maf all together, I dont have much of a desire to do this but it would be a nice backup if I have a maf failure in the middle of nowhere.

Well see what the future of my tuning ends up driving me to do. As of now I need to pull a touch of fuel from the factory map at wot to bring the afrs up from 10 to 11ish. Right now my priority though is closed loop boost while cruising an also trying to get some better mpgs. I have a decent enough tune that for now Im going to run it for a week or so and see how things react.

 

[Bandit Runner]

Was the 7th injector instructions saying to keep the coppers at .043? Anyway, just get IK22's and call it a day.

They don't say specifically what plugs to gap, so I assumed it was the new ones that came with the kit. Like I said, it is confusing and URD needs to revise the instructions to be more clear.

Also, I looked at the spark plug boxes that came with the 7th kit, and they all say IK24 5311 on them. Like you said, I thought everyone was running the IK22's? Did I get the wrong ones? Will the IK24's work?

Thanks for your replies!

 

[gamefreakgc]

They don't say specifically what plugs to gap, so I assumed it was the new ones that came with the kit. Like I said, it is confusing and URD needs to revise the instructions to be more clear.

Also, I looked at the spark plug boxes that came with the 7th kit, and they all say IK24 5311 on them. Like you said, I thought everyone was running the IK22's? Did I get the wrong ones? Will the IK24's work?

Thanks for your replies!

IK24's work, I use them. They are little too cold for a stock pulley but ok for engines running more boost. Basically, you want the coldest possible plug that doesn't foul up. Put them in, drive it for a few months then take one out and inspect. If the center electrode or insulator is starting to get black and sooty, it's too cold and you'll need IK22's. If not, drive happy.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Ill have to get that virtual dyno and start playing with it. That would kinda help confirm my butt dyno results.

I did some more research this afternoon and correct me if Im wrong here but I think Ive got the differences between the AEM fic an the mapecu figured out in how they tune. To me it seems in closed loop we are both using the o2 skewing to re calibrate the ecus "target" to get us lower AFRs. The difference is you are able to tune your injectors directly to keep your fuel trims near zero where I am relying on the stock ecu to control the injectors. As far as I can tell there aren't any ill effects to this, it holds the tune fine because after awhile my short term fuel trims go to long term where the ecu now will consistently use them. The only limiting factor is how much larger I can go with injectors, I have been reading it will work with up to 2x the size which is plenty for my use.

As far as open loop tuning with the maf values it is definitely tricky and youre right that I dont have much overhead before it pops a cel because the value of the maf goes over 5. This may end up being what forces me to the next step up in injectors which I believe are 305ccs from LC engineering. I could run in maf elimination mode and clamp the voltage at 5 but then Im not sure how it is able to add fuel beyond the 5 volt limit. the advantage there though is that I can remove the factory maf all together, I dont have much of a desire to do this but it would be a nice backup if I have a maf failure in the middle of nowhere.

Well see what the future of my tuning ends up driving me to do. As of now I need to pull a touch of fuel from the factory map at wot to bring the afrs up from 10 to 11ish. Right now my priority though is closed loop boost while cruising an also trying to get some better mpgs. I have a decent enough tune that for now Im going to run it for a week or so and see how things react.

Yeah, that's what I would do. If you ever want to, the 96-98 turbine style MAF is a large air restriction and there's power to be gained there. I swapped to a 99-02 MAF which is much, much smaller and got a bit of pep to go with it. Eliminating it altogether would free up even more airflow.

 

[Toy2play]

So I guess the R4 tuning software doesn't come with the URD 7th kit? What couple options are there for tuning the 7th as far as software?

 

[Bandit Runner]

IK24's work, I use them. They are little too cold for a stock pulley but ok for engines running more boost. Basically, you want the coldest possible plug that doesn't foul up. Put them in, drive it for a few months then take one out and inspect. If the center electrode or insulator is starting to get black and sooty, it's too cold and you'll need IK22's. If not, drive happy.

I have the 2.2" pulley, so hopefully the IK24's will work for me. I wonder if URD put the IK24's in my 7th kit because I ordered the smaller pulley at the same time?

Thanks again for your help. I'm a real noob at this kind of stuff.


For anyone else reading this, that also bought the 7th injector kit from URD, did you get the IK22 or IK24 spark plugs? Just curious.

 

[Toy2play]

I have the 2.2" pulley, so hopefully the IK24's will work for me. I wonder if URD put the IK24's in my 7th kit because I ordered the smaller pulley at the same time?

Thanks again for your help. I'm a real noob at this kind of stuff.


For anyone else reading this, that also bought the 7th injector kit from URD, did you get the IK22 or IK24 spark plugs? Just curious.

I also ordered the 7th and the 2.2 pulley at the same time, but I received the IK22.

 

[wrench.n.wheel]

For those interested in vacuum hose routing for the 1st gen Supercharger, I modified the heck out of the one on the net currently. This is simple and hard to mess up.

 

[Bandit Runner]

I also ordered the 7th and the 2.2 pulley at the same time, but I received the IK22.

Well, so much for that theory. I guess you get what ever they have on hand. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[4Reak Show]

Well, so much for that theory. I guess you get what ever they have on hand. Thanks for chiming in.

All this spark plug gap talk got me thinking... So I pulled out my plugs (maybe 10-15K max miles on them) and they're all at .044 exactly and have a really good burn/wear pattern... Likely means I gapped them as directed via the instructions. So I set them all back to .032 however I can't drive it at the moment as I wait for parts to fix a little leak at the transfer case flange. So I will certainly report if I feel an improvement in performance. And believe it when I say I KNOW how she performs so I'll know a difference for sure if one exists. .012" seems like nothing. But it is 37.5% gap increase. Which should be a pretty good difference.

For what it's worth, I ordered the 7th direct from URD and I can confirm all spark plugs were IK22's. Stock pulley. No idea why you got 24's. You aren't going to hurt anything having the larger gap and/or cooler plugs overall I would think. Just a little less performance if anything.

 

[atcpup]

For anyone else reading this, that also bought the 7th injector kit from URD, did you get the IK22 or IK24 spark plugs? Just curious.

I received IK24's with my supercharger and the 7th, no pulley. I emailed Gadget about the 24's and he said "The IK24s are fine. Leave them gapped at .032"

Well, so much for that theory. I guess you get what ever they have on hand.

Exactly..

 

[4Reak Show]

A bit off topic but this is the place for it: thanks to [MENTION=174573]krutoydiesel[/MENTION] for some behind the scenes assistance in the completion of the 1st generation TRD supercharger vacuum label sticker for under the hood.

This version with the AIRAID intake.

[MENTION=73567]alphyn[/MENTION] I'm lookin at you since I know you have a 1st gen SC...

I don't remember if I informed the folks of the updated, significantly more complete and more accurate belt routing diagram label either. It includes all 3 belts instead of just the SC one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bandit Runner]

All this spark plug gap talk got me thinking... So I pulled out my plugs (maybe 10-15K max miles on them) and they're all at .044 exactly and have a really good burn/wear pattern... Likely means I gapped them as directed via the instructions. So I set them all back to .032 however I can't drive it at the moment as I wait for parts to fix a little leak at the transfer case flange. So I will certainly report if I feel an improvement in performance. And believe it when I say I KNOW how she performs so I'll know a difference for sure if one exists. .012" seems like nothing. But it is 37.5% gap increase. Which should be a pretty good difference.

For what it's worth, I ordered the 7th direct from URD and I can confirm all spark plugs were IK22's. Stock pulley. No idea why you got 24's. You aren't going to hurt anything having the larger gap and/or cooler plugs overall I would think. Just a little less performance if anything.

I received IK24's with my supercharger and the 7th, no pulley. I emailed Gadget about the 24's and he said "The IK24s are fine. Leave them gapped at .032"

Thanks for the input guys. I’m pulling the plugs and regapping them to .032 on Saturday