The 3rd Gen All Questions Allowed Thread

[Devbot]

Yet another tire question, hated to start a whole new thread but looking for some opinions and to see if I figured the size correctly.

I have a 2000 Limited, picked it up with 265/75/16 garbage tires that are loud and bumpy as hell. It's not so much a daily driver (fly for work out of town mainly) so normal errands in town and then camping/exploring/kayaking will be its main use. Figured an All-Terrain tire would be best for now, I plan to add some lift down the road but that's gonna be a bit, will then move this wheel/tire combo to a 93 yoda pickup.

It appears to have a bit of a spacer for leveling added as well as some wheel spacers. I picked up some used TRD PRO rims in grey (17x7 4.5 backspace Offset 4 - specs from previous owner)

The Falken Wildpeak A/T3W's seem to be a favorite but I have always been a fan of Yokohama tires for sport cars so I've been looking at the GEOLANDAR X-AT's as well...no idea if they are any good though.

So finally the questions lol!! Does anybody have any experience with the Geolandar X-AT's? Lots of rain here so need to perform well wet and plan to see some snow as well. Going up to 17x7 was thinking 265/70/17 would be about the same size. Not sure if I can go any larger without having issues, current setup does not rub.

Any advice on tires and sizes would be appreciated, and here are some pointless pics!

https://flic.kr/p/2kXekN3 https://www.flickr.com/photos/186981945@N08/


https://flic.kr/p/2kXhfGB https://www.flickr.com/photos/186981945@N08/

https://flic.kr/p/2kXvHar https://www.flickr.com/photos/186981945@N08/
​

These are what I'm buying next. Have yet to hear a single bad thing about Geolandars and the X-A/Ts are supposedly between a normal A/T and M/T. I forgot who but some user here has been dealing tires for almost 2 decades and highly recommended them along with many others people, especially over Widepeaks (I'm also currently using some like you) which apparently have a problem staying round.

 

[cl4Rk]

Sooo any thoughts on a mild non lifted diff drop? Would it hurt anything?

Are you asking about doing a 1” front differential drop on a stock-height 4Runner?

I don’t know that it would hurt anything, but I also don’t know what you’d gain. AFAIK, you only need a diff drop once a lift gets high enough to make your CV angles too extreme, leading to at best reduced droop, at worst premature wear or failure.

At stock height, the CV angles are as-designed (ideal).

I have about a 1”-1.5” lift in the front and I don’t need a diff drop. But it seems like the consensus on this forum is once your lift gets higher than 2”-3” or so, you’ll want a diff drop.

Is there a problem you’re trying to solve or just curious?

Maybe someone with more info will chime in.

 

[cl4Rk]

I forgot who

I think it was [MENTION=595680]Wrenchin4torts[/MENTION]

Here’s the thread: Yet another tire size thread

 

[Devbot]

Indeed the one. Maybe he has more to say on them.
I've enjoyed my Falkens so far, but I've had them for less than a year and they're already significantly worn down. Come to find out this a common complaint. Very eager to try Geolandars, hopefully they last longer. I have a feeling I'll be in need by new years at this rate.

 

[Wrenchin4torts]

Indeed the one. Maybe he has more to say on them.
I've enjoyed my Falkens so far, but I've had them for less than a year and they're already significantly worn down. Come to find out this a common complaint. Very eager to try Geolandars, hopefully they last longer. I have a feeling I'll be in need by new years at this rate.

I love yokohama , the really are a great tire in all variants. The age old question of which tire to choose always comes down to goals and priorities. There is no perfect Tire. You just have to realistically evaluate what you truly need in a tire.

The Xat is a great option if you land somewhere in between the realms. Remember the phrase jack of all trades master for none. Tires are subject to this concept. Feel free to ask if you have specific questions.

If needed I'll post pictures of both sets of geolander Mts and mileages

 

[RumHam26]

Are OME 880 front springs side specific? I know some spring sets make one taller for the driver's side, but the 880s I ordered look identical

 

[D'arce]

Are you asking about doing a 1” front differential drop on a stock-height 4Runner?

I don’t know that it would hurt anything, but I also don’t know what you’d gain. AFAIK, you only need a diff drop once a lift gets high enough to make your CV angles too extreme, leading to at best reduced droop, at worst premature wear or failure.

At stock height, the CV angles are as-designed (ideal).

I have about a 1”-1.5” lift in the front and I don’t need a diff drop. But it seems like the consensus on this forum is once your lift gets higher than 2”-3” or so, you’ll want a diff drop.

Is there a problem you’re trying to solve or just curious?

Maybe someone with more info will chime in.

Yes this truck is sitting on stock suspension. The main goal would be to make extra room for a motor swap.

 

[cl4Rk]

Yes this truck is sitting on stock suspension. The main goal would be to make extra room for a motor swap.

Ok. Then as far as I know, the only downside to the diff drop on stock suspension would be a reduction of ground clearance. You’d also change the angle your CVs sit at ride height (and across the range of suspension compression). Probably not a problem.

What engine are you swapping? Please consider making a new thread for this as an engine swap will generate a lot of interest and you’ll probably get more engagement and questions answered in a new engine swap thread.

Best of luck!

 

[cas5259]

I’m having a drum brake issue that I can’t figure out. There is some pulsing which is more noticeable at lower speeds. After a normal 20min drive, the left drum was 400F, while the other was 145F. I could hear the left drum dragging.

Everything (drums/shoes/hardware/cylinders/hose) was replaced 5k miles ago while doing the axle seals and bearings. The new Wagner drums I got had to be turned out of the box because they were about .0080 out of round. Everything was fine for a few months until now. The pulsing slowly increased over that time.

Everything looks fine, but I did notice that when the ebrake is pulled, the hot side bell crank lever extends all the way, but the cold side doesn’t. They’re adjusted on the drum correctly and not frozen or anything, I packed them with grease during the refresh. The pivot point on the axle moves fine too and I don’t see a way to adjust the passenger side cable. What’s going on here?

Hot side with parking brake engaged.

Cold side with parking brake engaged.

I backed off the adjusters (also not stuck) and swapped the drums over to the other side. Sure enough, after re-adjusting with the parking brake again, now the right side is pulsing. With the rear on stands and the truck running in D, I can hear the intermittent dragging on the right drum. When I pull the parking brake, the left wheel stops, and the right continues pulsing a bit harder.

Can the drum be out of round again after 5k miles? That’s the only thing I can think of.

 

[Devbot]

I’m having a drum brake issue that I can’t figure out. There is some pulsing which is more noticeable at lower speeds. After a normal 20min drive, the left drum was 400F, while the other was 145F. I could hear the left drum dragging.

Everything (drums/shoes/hardware/cylinders/hose) was replaced 5k miles ago while doing the axle seals and bearings. The new Wagner drums I got had to be turned out of the box because they were about .0080 out of round. Everything was fine for a few months until now. The pulsing slowly increased over that time.

Everything looks fine, but I did notice that when the ebrake is pulled, the hot side bell crank lever extends all the way, but the cold side doesn’t. They’re adjusted on the drum correctly and not frozen or anything, I packed them with grease during the refresh. The pivot point on the axle moves fine too and I don’t see a way to adjust the passenger side cable. What’s going on here?

Hot side with parking brake engaged.

Cold side with parking brake engaged.

I backed off the adjusters (also not stuck) and swapped the drums over to the other side. Sure enough, after re-adjusting with the parking brake again, now the right side is pulsing. With the rear on stands and the truck running in D, I can hear the intermittent dragging on the right drum. When I pull the parking brake, the left wheel stops, and the right continues pulsing a bit harder.

Can the drum be out of round again after 5k miles? That’s the only thing I can think of.

You most certainly have defective parts, my first thought was faulty bell crank right out of the box before I even read that much. I would think it would be very unlikely for them to fall out of round from such little use, especially when you remember only ~20% of our braking is from the rear, but it probably wouldn't hurt to check it with a runout gauge or something given that the sound is intermittent and it only took 8 thou to cause a problem before. But I'm still gonna lean towards the bell crank especially with it visibly acting strange. It almost sounds like the drum is warped, but that doesn't align with the problem persisting after switching them.
Were all the parts from the same company, like in a kit or something? Really you should've returned it immediately upon noticing it was out of round, if they couldn't have gotten THAT correct you have very little reason to believe anything else in the package would be any better. That's like getting a warped rotor right out the box; neon red flag.
Can you feel the dragging when turning the wheel by hand?

 

[cas5259]

I did get the parts refunded ($25ea) by Amazon after explaining the situation and I paid $50 to get them turned, so I came out even there.

The bell cranks move freely with max travel when they’re not hooked up, so maybe those return springs on that side are too strong somehow or something else.

I can feel the dragging by hand. Dropped the drums off at the same shop who originally turned them today. Will be interesting to see if the problem drum is out of round.

Here are the original new shoes after getting treated to a trip around the block when I realized the drums needed work.

 

[Mazahua]

Does anyone have some guidance on removing some fuses on the 99 TFR? Not the little ones. the AM and J/B50A. I wasn't sure if had to remove the bolts like when i would have to remove the 120A.

]

 

[spartacus]

Does anyone have some guidance on removing some fuses on the 99 TFR? Not the little ones. the AM and J/B50A. I wasn't sure if had to remove the bolts like when i would have to remove the 120A.

]

I don't think so but even if you had to, it's not that bad.There are 3 tabs that you pop with a pick and it slides up and out.
[MENTION=168172]sleepydad[/MENTION] at around the 23 minute mark shows how.

toyota 4runner electric fan conversion - YouTube

 

[Devbot]

I did get the parts refunded ($25ea) by Amazon after explaining the situation and I paid $50 to get them turned, so I came out even there.

The bell cranks move freely with max travel when they’re not hooked up, so maybe those return springs on that side are too strong somehow or something else.

I can feel the dragging by hand. Dropped the drums off at the same shop who originally turned them today. Will be interesting to see if the problem drum is out of round.

Here are the original new shoes after getting treated to a trip around the block when I realized the drums needed work.

Any word on them? You might also have better luck with replies if you create your own thread

 

[cas5259]

Any word on them? You might also have better luck with replies if you create your own thread

Shop said they couldn’t turn them anymore due to thickness. Picking some new ones up from napa tomorrow that come with a warranty. If that doesn’t work then I’ll have to pay up for OEM drums.

 

[wsteele8974]

Hey guys, newbie here. I got a 2000 2wd 4runner, and wanted to know if I have to upgrade my upper and lower ball joints along with the front/rear sway bar links to accommodate the ome 880/906 springs w/Bilstein 5100's lift or if can those stay stock?

 

[spartacus]

Hey guys, newbie here. I got a 2000 2wd 4runner, and wanted to know if I have to upgrade my upper and lower ball joints along with the front/rear sway bar links to accommodate the ome 880/906 springs w/Bilstein 5100's lift or if can those stay stock?

AFAIK stock upper lower control arms joints work fine. I moved the front links to the rear and used 2nd Gen rear links which are longer in the front.

 

[Devbot]

Hey guys, newbie here. I got a 2000 2wd 4runner, and wanted to know if I have to upgrade my upper and lower ball joints along with the front/rear sway bar links to accommodate the ome 880/906 springs w/Bilstein 5100's lift or if can those stay stock?

I would highly consider it. Long story short your ball joints will wear down at a specific angle, and one you change your ride height the angle the ball joints operate at has subsequently been changed as well. This can (/will) lead to them being worn down at an even greater rate, increasing their chance of failure, but also can lead to a pretty bad driving experience and alignment issues. Many here including myself tried to do a lift without doing the ball joints too and promptly ended back on the garage floor only a month or two later. Your lowers are much more critical than your uppers.
You should also consider replacing your u-joints (or entire driveshaft if it's still OEM) on the same principle - the needle bearings in the ujoint caps will have worn away at a different angle and can cause major vibrations when driving. Not necessary but if you get some vibrations you'll probably know why. I say replace the OEM shaft because the way Toyota made the double cardan joint makes it absolute hell to get new u-joints in (the yokes are recessed AND tapered halfway making it impossible to press anything flat, and are also under pressure and will flare out upwards of 50-100 thou meaning your caps will always seat crooked and gouge into the sockets), and you can typically get much better shafts (sometimes even extended/high angle) built specifically for our 4Runners for just as much or LESS than an OEM driveshaft.
I'm gonna assume so on the sway bar links. If your suspension is stiff enough you can remove them altogether, technically you don't NEED sway bars. As said you can use the front links from a 3rd gen in the rear of the 3rd gen, and use the rear links from a 2nd gen in the front of the 3rd gen.

 

[wsteele8974]

I would highly consider it. Long story short your ball joints will wear down at a specific angle, and one you change your ride height the angle the ball joints operate at has subsequently been changed as well. This can (/will) lead to them being worn down at an even greater rate, increasing their chance of failure, but also can lead to a pretty bad driving experience and alignment issues. Many here including myself tried to do a lift without doing the ball joints too and promptly ended back on the garage floor only a month or two later. Your lowers are much more critical than your uppers.
You should also consider replacing your u-joints (or entire driveshaft if it's still OEM) on the same principle - the needle bearings in the ujoint caps will have worn away at a different angle and can cause major vibrations when driving. Not necessary but if you get some vibrations you'll probably know why. I say replace the OEM shaft because the way Toyota made the double cardan joint makes it absolute hell to get new u-joints in (the yokes are recessed AND tapered halfway making it impossible to press anything flat, and are also under pressure and will flare out upwards of 50-100 thou meaning your caps will always seat crooked and gouge into the sockets), and you can typically get much better shafts (sometimes even extended/high angle) built specifically for our 4Runners for just as much or LESS than an OEM driveshaft.
I'm gonna assume so on the sway bar links. If your suspension is stiff enough you can remove them altogether, technically you don't NEED sway bars. As said you can use the front links from a 3rd gen in the rear of the 3rd gen, and use the rear links from a 2nd gen in the front of the 3rd gen.

I'll definitely check the driveshaft and put in my order for the 2nd gen links. Is there a particular brand for the ball joints you would recommend?

 

[cl4Rk]

I'll definitely check the driveshaft and put in my order for the 2nd gen links. Is there a particular brand for the ball joints you would recommend?

Consensus on this forum is Toyota OEM only for ball joins.

EDIT: OEM-only for lower ball joints..