The 3rd Gen All Questions Allowed Thread

[Storm01]

Top plate spacer vs #2 clip setting

Hey all. I just installed a lift on my 2001 4runner with some 5100s and Eibach Pro-Lift front coils from Wheelers. So far I'm loving the combo however I have came into an issue with some settling. When I first installed the lift earlier this week, it was at roughly 23" hub to fender on my driver side. (keep in mind, I have a 1" BL.) However, it has now settled to around 22.5. Of course, I would like to go back and retain my extra 0.5" of lift. I have the option to either bump up to the 2nd clip on my 5100s or buy a Toytec top plate spacer. I've heard rough things about top plate spacers but was wondering if bumping up to the next clip would be a smart move? Eibach told me the coils should have no issue with the adjustment. Any insight on what to rather do? Thanks in advance.

 

[Brian.]

Hey all. I just installed a lift on my 2001 4runner with some 5100s and Eibach Pro-Lift front coils from Wheelers. So far I'm loving the combo however I have came into an issue with some settling. When I first installed the lift earlier this week, it was at roughly 23" hub to fender on my driver side. (keep in mind, I have a 1" BL.) However, it has now settled to around 22.5. Of course, I would like to go back and retain my extra 0.5" of lift. I have the option to either bump up to the 2nd clip on my 5100s or buy a Toytec top plate spacer. I've heard rough things about top plate spacers but was wondering if bumping up to the next clip would be a smart move? Eibach told me the coils should have no issue with the adjustment. Any insight on what to rather do? Thanks in advance.

Raising a clip position will change the spring preload. This means it will take more "weight" (more of a bump) to overcome that preload before the spring moves... this is felt as "harsh" over small things like expansion joints in highways. But no one can tell what someone elses tolerance level for these things are, so it may be something that irritates you, or it may not.

All that is to say, you have to try it. It not going to Damage anything, and is 100% reversible if you don't like it. And I know nothing about top plate spacers as they don't offer anything but a cosmetic change. Gut feeling is that you're risking CV axle damage and potential handling issues.

 

[Spiker Engineering]

Raising a clip position will change the spring preload. This means it will take more "weight" (more of a bump) to overcome that preload before the spring moves... this is felt as "harsh" over small things like expansion joints in highways.

Raising the clip position will change the preload and the ride height, but it will not change how much the suspension moves when hitting a bump (this is a very common myth). You can see it explained here, starting at about 8:45 (or skip right to 11:35).

 

[Storm01]

Raising a clip position will change the spring preload. This means it will take more "weight" (more of a bump) to overcome that preload before the spring moves... this is felt as "harsh" over small things like expansion joints in highways. But no one can tell what someone elses tolerance level for these things are, so it may be something that irritates you, or it may not.

All that is to say, you have to try it. It not going to Damage anything, and is 100% reversible if you don't like it. And I know nothing about top plate spacers as they don't offer anything but a cosmetic change. Gut feeling is that you're risking CV axle damage and potential handling issues.

Noted. Thanks for the information.

I was thinking the same idea about it being 100% reversible. I personally have a homemade "hybrid" bumper on the front of my rig so the added weight capacity would be a nice addition. Kind of kicking myself not getting 883s, lol. Luckily, my CVs were replaced before I got the truck. I'll report back in on what my decision is.

 

[Bad Luck]

Raising the clip position will change the preload and the ride height, but it will not change how much the suspension moves when hitting a bump (this is a very common myth). You can see it explained here, starting at about 8:45 (or skip right to 11:35).

You beat me to it! Thanks for the video link for the explanation. He does a fantastic job in all of his videos and I especially appreciate the science and physical demonstrations. Preload ride is the most common myth around. In reality spring rate and shock valving are the biggest ride quality factors.

 

[turbo3dT4R]

Can I put this on my 3rd gen?

I have what I believe to be an Aries brush guard from an early 2000s Silverado. Was curious if there was a way to attach it to the 4Runner via a kit or homemade brackets somehow. What are my options?

 

[Brian.]

Raising the clip position will change the preload and the ride height, but it will not change how much the suspension moves when hitting a bump (this is a very common myth). You can see it explained here, starting at about 8:45 (or skip right to 11:35).

Not talking about the movement after overcoming the preload, talking about the energy necessary to overcome the preload... which was not addressed. If you cause the spring to need more before before it moves, and you don't provide that additional force, then the shock does not compress and that energy is translated directly to the frame. This is WHY the truck lifts when you compress the spring more in preload, you've caused that spring to need more force than the vehicle has statically to compress the same distance... hence, it sits higher than the difference in spring clip positions.

That video does a good job of why cranking up preload doesn't "fix" weak springs (and you'll still wallow through corners on weak springs with tons of preload, as well as under heavy braking). You just end up with a harsh ride where the necessary force to overcome the preload isn't met by normal road conditions.

One clip position may be so slight as to be irrelevant. This is all theory... it may be Very noticeable too, some people are very sensitive to these things.

BTW, while my memory is old and rusty, pulling this from 20 years in my past, this was info that Both Penske and Ohlins built their shocks on. It was required knowledge to test into their programs and be certified to work on their shocks (I did and I was... different life).

 

[Spiker Engineering]

Not talking about the movement after overcoming the preload, talking about the energy necessary to overcome the preload...

Unless you are totally mismatching springs and shocks, then all of the clip settings will still result in a preload that is less than the weight at the wheel. If changing one clip setting takes you from a sprung situation to an unsprung situation (i.e. preload is higher than static weight at the wheel), then you have the wrong springs/shocks for the vehicle, because you springs and shocks won't do anything.

This is WHY the truck lifts when you compress the spring more in preload, you've caused that spring to need more force than the vehicle has statically to compress the same distance... hence, it sits higher than the difference in spring clip positions.

The truck sits higher because you moved the entire spring assembly up by the distance between the two spring grooves. The compressed spring length is exactly the same for both clip settings (unless one of the settings results in a preload that is greater than the truck weight at the wheel, as discussed above).

this was info that Both Penske and Ohlins built their shocks on. It was required knowledge to test into their programs and be certified to work on their shocks (I did and I was... different life).

Keep in mind that not all suspension systems work the same - coilovers are different from Macpherson struts or suspensions with separate shocks/coils.

 

[Bad Luck]

Not talking about the movement after overcoming the preload, talking about the energy necessary to overcome the preload... which was not addressed. If you cause the spring to need more before before it moves, and you don't provide that additional force, then the shock does not compress and that energy is translated directly to the frame. This is WHY the truck lifts when you compress the spring more in preload, you've caused that spring to need more force than the vehicle has statically to compress the same distance... hence, it sits higher than the difference in spring clip positions.

That video does a good job of why cranking up preload doesn't "fix" weak springs (and you'll still wallow through corners on weak springs with tons of preload, as well as under heavy braking). You just end up with a harsh ride where the necessary force to overcome the preload isn't met by normal road conditions.

One clip position may be so slight as to be irrelevant. This is all theory... it may be Very noticeable too, some people are very sensitive to these things.

BTW, while my memory is old and rusty, pulling this from 20 years in my past, this was info that Both Penske and Ohlins built their shocks on. It was required knowledge to test into their programs and be certified to work on their shocks (I did and I was... different life).

The compressed spring will be the same length regardless of the clip setting on the shock. Changing the clip setting on the shock changes the distance between the spring seat and the bottom eyelet of the shock which in turn changes the static height of your vehicle. If it required 600 lbs of force to compress the spring 1 inch before changing the clip setting then it will still take 600 lbs of force to compress the spring 1 inch after changing the clip setting.

Unless you preload the spring so much that the resting weight of the vehicle does not compress the spring at all OR the amount of preload causes the shock to either bottom out or fully extend when travelling over bumps and cycling the suspension under normal driving conditions then preload does not matter or affect the vehicle ride.

EDIT: The angle of the control arms will contribute to a harsher ride. A flat control arm will not transfer as much force to the frame as a control arm where the ball joint is below the frame side. When the ball joint is lower than the frame side of the control arm the travel arc is less vertical which causes more energy to be transferred to the frame side (pivot point) before the ball joint starts to move along the travel arc of the control arm.

 

[JoeT4R]

What better place than to ask here, as I'm sure I'll get all the answers I need before the end of the day, lol.

I've got the classic Sonoran Steel 1.2 setup on my 01. So I have 5100's front and rear, Tundra springs in the front, FZJ-80 springs in the rear. And some other little goodies.

After emailing Steve from Sonoran Steel, he informed me that the replacement shock for the rear from Bilstein would be p/n 33-187174. After a quick search, it seems that they have been discontinued although you CAN find them some places.

I kind of want to switch things up and begin to refresh my suspension, starting with the rear. I went ahead and reached out to ARB and inquired about the replacement part from Old Man Emu. Still waiting for their response.

If anyone has any input or suggestions as to what I can go with that will be a direct replacement, let me know. Looking for the best on road ride quality since I'm not wheeling my truck these days.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 

[toy0da]

New member, checking in.

Hello all,

I have previously owned a manual, 4x4, 3.4 tacoma that I deeply regret selling. I have also owned a manual, 4x4, 3.0 truck that I also regret selling (but not as much). Now, I am looking to get back into the game! And I am almost there...

I have placed a $1,500 deposit on this . I know, 2wd and auto, but this is just to hold me over until I find a 4wd manual

Anyways, although I have placed a deposit on this, I have now discovered a NEW posting! What should I do here? See if I can get my deposit back and jump on this one? The only downside I can tell on the second one is the lack of fender flares. Thoughts/advice on what to do here?

If I DO go end up getting the second one, are there aftermarket fender flares I could add? I don't think I have seen any?

Also, if anyone is in the DFW area, I have already bought new wheels. So, if anyone is interested in the stock wheels, they will be for sale very soon! Thank you!

 

[jrm]

Valve/Head Gasket - Error Codes

I got under my truck to remove the running boards after having a lift and LBJs installed to see that my steering rack was covered in oil. Also my first oil change over to synthetic about 2 weeks ago so ive read that this too can produce leakage.

Id love to be able to visually see whats going on but i cant seem to see the source b/c of the amount of oil involved. I think i need to check the oil levels first to see if its an substantial amount but id also like to use my OBDII reader to see if the leak is something more than just what it seems.

So if i attach my OBDII reader what error codes would a failed valve cover or head gasket throw...

Thanks

 

[JoeT4R]

I got under my truck to remove the running boards after having a lift and LBJs installed to see that my steering rack was covered in oil. Also my first oil change over to synthetic about 2 weeks ago so ive read that this too can produce leakage.



Id love to be able to visually see whats going on but i cant seem to see the source b/c of the amount of oil involved. I think i need to check the oil levels first to see if its an substantial amount but id also like to use my OBDII reader to see if the leak is something more than just what it seems.



So if i attach my OBDII reader what error codes would a failed valve cover or head gasket throw...



Thanks

As far as I'm aware, those two things wouldn't throw a code. Leaky valve cover gaskets you can visually inspect just by popping the hood. With a bad head gasket there would typically be other signs associated with it.

Just a side note, I would recommend throwing a wrench on your valve cover bolts just to ensure they aren't loose. If they are, go ahead and snug them down, but not too tight. Cheap insurance to hold you over in the meantime if you do need new ones.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 

[Bad Luck]

New member, checking in.

Hello all,

I have previously owned a manual, 4x4, 3.4 tacoma that I deeply regret selling. I have also owned a manual, 4x4, 3.0 truck that I also regret selling (but not as much). Now, I am looking to get back into the game! And I am almost there...

I have placed a $1,500 deposit on this . I know, 2wd and auto, but this is just to hold me over until I find a 4wd manual

Anyways, although I have placed a deposit on this, I have now discovered a NEW posting! What should I do here? See if I can get my deposit back and jump on this one? The only downside I can tell on the second one is the lack of fender flares. Thoughts/advice on what to do here?

If I DO go end up getting the second one, are there aftermarket fender flares I could add? I don't think I have seen any?

Also, if anyone is in the DFW area, I have already bought new wheels. So, if anyone is interested in the stock wheels, they will be for sale very soon! Thank you!

There are aftermarket fender flares available: site:toyota-4Runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/ AFTERMARKET FENDER FLARES - Google Search

 

[jrm]

thanks will do.

Hey? Spark plug gap?

 

[MartinDa]

Drum Brake Job Nightmare

Recently my brakes have gotten really low, so after checking the front brakes I moved to check the back. The right side came off with a little hammering, found that the brake shoes and drum both need to be replaced, and moved to the driver side.

The drum had a little play in it but was catching on something that was holding it on. I assumed some part of the brake shoes were catching on it, so I went to the adjuster and through the access port I could see there was a lot of fluid inside the drum, and after googling around suspected it was a small axle seal leak. Unfortunate, but I wanted to get the drum off so I could do the brakes before taking it in to have the leak troubleshot. Now let's just find the adjusting lever...

Turns out those things are pretty difficult to find, but after playing around for about an hour and a half, I managed to find the lever and get the bolt turned. The bad news was that I got it turned in the wrong direction and pressed the brakes into my drum. Now I have zero play in the drum, and now the thing is undriveable. Super. Well at least I can just move the adjusting arm and do it the right way, except now even with the arm seemingly moved the bolt doesn't want to turn. I worked at this for 3 hours, and could not get the bolt to move. This is super frustrating, I'm not sure what to do. I have half a mind to take an angle grinder to the drum to cut a window in since I'll be replacing it anyway, but there's too much that can go wrong there. Should I just keep plugging away at it?

 

[octanejunkie]

Recently my brakes have gotten really low, so after checking the front brakes I moved to check the back. The right side came off with a little hammering, found that the brake shoes and drum both need to be replaced, and moved to the driver side.



The drum had a little play in it but was catching on something that was holding it on. I assumed some part of the brake shoes were catching on it, so I went to the adjuster and through the access port I could see there was a lot of fluid inside the drum, and after googling around suspected it was a small axle seal leak. Unfortunate, but I wanted to get the drum off so I could do the brakes before taking it in to have the leak troubleshot. Now let's just find the adjusting lever...



Turns out those things are pretty difficult to find, but after playing around for about an hour and a half, I managed to find the lever and get the bolt turned. The bad news was that I got it turned in the wrong direction and pressed the brakes into my drum. Now I have zero play in the drum, and now the thing is undriveable. Super. Well at least I can just move the adjusting arm and do it the right way, except now even with the arm seemingly moved the bolt doesn't want to turn. I worked at this for 3 hours, and could not get the bolt to move. This is super frustrating, I'm not sure what to do. I have half a mind to take an angle grinder to the drum to cut a window in since I'll be replacing it anyway, but there's too much that can go wrong there. Should I just keep plugging away at it?

You need to depress the adjuster lever away from the ratchet wheel and turn the adjuster wheel the opposite direction you did to open it.

Press a small blade screwdriver into the forward side of the adjuster slot on the bottom of the slot, you will feel and hear the spring flex as you push the lever away from the ratchet wheel.

Using another flat blade screwdriver rotate the ratchet wheel from the top down. The wheel is 2/3 to 3/4 backwards in the slot towards the rear of the vehicle. Don't release pressure on the lever. Two hands fumbling in the dark - takes practice and patience.

Go visualize it and practice on the side you have the drum off, you'll see.

 

[mcclme683]

Drive shaft replacement help!

Hello,
I am trying to install a Tom Woods Double Cardone drive shaft onto my '02 4Runner 4WD. I removed the bolts from the flange and they are damaged. Does anyone know where to get new bolts? I tried a few hardware stores, but the specialty shape made it difficult. It's the bolts on the right. Thank you.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[octanejunkie]

Hello,
I am trying to install a Tom Woods Double Cardone drive shaft onto my '02 4Runner 4WD. I removed the bolts from the flange and they are damaged. Does anyone know where to get new bolts? I tried a few hardware stores, but the specialty shape made it difficult. It's the bolts on the right. Thank you.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Dealer item. Make sure you get the bolts, washers and nuts.

The ones in your pic don't look that bad... why not reuse them?

FWIW, factory are grade 10.9+ and are 10mm bolts with a shoulder, 11mm would work but impossible to find outside of places like McMaster Carr.

 

[MartinDa]

You need to depress the adjuster lever away from the ratchet wheel and turn the adjuster wheel the opposite direction you did to open it.

Press a small blade screwdriver into the forward side of the adjuster slot on the bottom of the slot, you will feel and hear the spring flex as you push the lever away from the ratchet wheel.

Using another flat blade screwdriver rotate the ratchet wheel from the top down. The wheel is 2/3 to 3/4 backwards in the slot towards the rear of the vehicle. Don't release pressure on the lever. Two hands fumbling in the dark - takes practice and patience.

Go visualize it and practice on the side you have the drum off, you'll see.

I think I've figured out the issue. The access port on my driver side is on the right side of the drum. I had become convinced that the lever would somehow be on the right side, despite the parking brake spring being on the same side. When you confirmed that it's always on the forward side, I took another look, and I suspect that I have a passenger side backing plate on my driver side. That would explain why this task went from a PITA to seemingly impossible.

I'm gonna have to replace the drums anyway, so I think I'm just gonna take an angle grinder to the drum and cut a window on the forward side