The Dreaded Lift Set Up Question

[TPatt88]

After much internal debate and struggle I think I have chosen my future suspension lift! I will fall into the mild to moderate offroad use and difficulty category and don't see the need to go to a crazy stage of Icon suspension (though if money didn't matter.....).

I am just looking for a little feedback for what I am looking at and opinions. I really want to do this for under $1,000 (UCA's maybe excluded if needed), so it has been a challenge.

*** I want to do Bilstein Height adjustable front and matching 5100 Rear shocks all around, I just keep reading great things about these shocks and want to get rid of the boat like drive this thing can have.

*** For springs I am thinking of 3" FJ Lift w/ front & rear coils with the OME 884's up front and the Toytec Superflex's out back.

My first question is:
-Do I need to get the kit that has the spacers? Or should I just buy the springs I need?

Second:
-Will adding either new springs or the 5100's off set the lift, feel and effectiveness of the other? That is, I see plenty of rigs that get a lift with just 5100's or OME/Superflex/Spacers, do I need both?

Thirdly:
-I think I know the answer to this and it has to do with the aftermarket UCA's: I plan on going with 285/70/17 BFG AT's when I burn through my crap Duelers and understand this can make alignment not fun when paired with a lift. Should I just bite the bullet and get them up front? I need some good reasons so I can explain myself and my spending an extra $400 to the Mrs.

I am looking for a modest lift that will set the truck off from a stockie and I want to have nice road manners, maximum suspension flex is not my goal for this bargain kit. I TRY to get out every 30 days like the manual says:lookout: to put her in 4WD, but there isn't a lot of offroading near by so it is difficult, & what I do have is very simple and usually doesn't even need 4WD, so I don't need to set the offroad community ablaze with my truck.

Thanks as always friends!

 

[Canazes9]

In my opinion, the 5100's are best for the lifts under 2". 5100's all the way around, fronts set to 0.85" combined with some aggressive all terrain tires in the factory size (265/70R17) gives a nice aggressive look and a noticeable improvement over factory ride both on and off road.

Combinations of 5100's/OME springs/spacers to achieve greater than 2" usually produces a rough harsh ride. The 5100's weren't designed for the OME springs and don't give optimum damping with that set-up. 5100's were designed to use the factory springs and work well a small amount of preload. I have the Eibach springs on the front of a Tacoma with no pre-load and it works pretty well (1.6" lift). IMO, if you want the OME springs you should use the OME shocks.

Under 2" lift in the front, you won't have any problems getting it aligned with factory UCA's. Above 2" with factory UCA's you may be able to find someone that can get an alignment you can live with, but it will never be right. If you go to aftermarket UCA's be aware that they generally squeak, as does a lot of the aftermarket suspension stuff.

David

 

[TPatt88]

Thanks David! Sounds like you've been there done that. Appreciate the feedback.

Tim

 

[FatTiresRollin]

Another question that needs to be answered is: Are you just looking for enough lift to fit the new tires, or would you like as much lift as possible out of the set-up? Depending on the answer to this question, I would give 2 different answers.

1. To just clear the tires and to spend the least amount of money, you could get away with just Bilsteins...but that is no fun!

2. To get the most lift possible...2 options:
(a) You can run my set-up with the Bilsteins @ 2.5" in the front and a Daystar spacer for the rear, then you have plenty of room for the UCAs (which I would recommend) and still be under your $1000 budget.

(b) For a little more "performance", use the Eibach, 883 or 884 coils up front. To get a full 2.5-3" of lift in the front, you can either buy the top plate spacer or since you already plan on bilsteins, you can just set those on the lowest lift setting (0.85). Toytec superflex coils are pretty much a given for the rear for your application I would think.

scenario B will give you a little stiffer ride overall, but give you the best balance for load carrying capability, on road manners and offroad flex. After running scenario A for a few months now, I am in the process of switching to B.

You asked "Will adding either new springs or the 5100's off set the lift, feel and effectiveness of the other? That is, I see plenty of rigs that get a lift with just 5100's or OME/Superflex/Spacers, do I need both?"....the answer is that there are quite a few options out there to achieve the lift. You will def want to change out the shocks. The aftermarket shocks will be designed to extend/compress properly with the lifted vehicle. Factory shocks will bottom out and/or overextend when pushed too far with the lifted vehicle. I believe the rest of the question is answered above...the lift can be achieved with the shocks, spacers, springs and/or a combination of all 3. It is a matter of selecting the right method for your application. Based on your description in the OP, sounds like you are in the same boat as me...and I would recommend option 2a or 2b, depending on your desired balance of ride stiffness and performance.

That turned out to be a lot longer than I expected....

 

[TPatt88]

Another question that needs to be answered is: Are you just looking for enough lift to fit the new tires, or would you like as much lift as possible out of the set-up?

OBVIOUSLY as much as possible hahaha!

I mean my first priority is to clear the larger tires and 5100's all around seems like it would do that, but is it exotic enough? Haha.

I like the idea of your scenario "B", what made you decide to get away from your current set up, "A"?

And a stiffer ride is definitely part of what I am looking for, doesn't need to feel like my lowered Miata, but just less tank-like.

Thanks a lot [MENTION=84527]FatTiresRollin[/MENTION]

 

[FatTiresRollin]

don't get me wrong...I have enjoyed my current set-up with the spacer and have no complaints what-so-ever, especially since I recently added the LR UCAs. My relatively "picky" wife didn't even notice/complain about the stiffer ride of the Bilstein shocks...so I feel like I can push it a little further. And for the money, you really can't beat the "bang for your buck" aspect with set-up A. my reasoning for switching is more of a mental thing I think....and just a desire to MOD some more. I don't have enough money for a $1500 roof rack, front bumper, etc...so upgrading my springs is on my short term (affordable) mod list and provides another good bang for my buck.

my set-up right now leaves the rig pretty darn near level, maybe a 1/4-1/2" difference from front to back. Back in June when I had the truck loaded down for family vaca with luggage, bikes, beach gear, etc...I didn't like the sag it gave my truck in the rear, plus the ride turned a little squishy again with all that gear and the stock springs. I regularly transport a few hundred pounds of music gear (guitars, amps, etc)...so the added height and stiffness in the rear fits my needs. I haven't yet been in an offroad situation that would warrant the additional down travel of the new springs, but in theory, that is a great benefit as well and may come in handy when I try to follow some of the east coast guys on an offroad adventure at our meet-up in October.

I am just swapping in the Superflex rear coils for now...I am waiting to do anything with the front until I bite the bullet on sliders, skids and add some more weight. The nice thing about the Bilstein shocks is that you can put them on now and build the rest of the suspension over time as your needs change. The only loss I take is some money for the rear spacer, a little extra time for installs and an alignment whenever I mess with the front end (the shop I found here that does a proper alignment only charges $60).

 

[K0nfusion]

I'm new to lifting, so from what I'm reading, I could just get Bilstein 5100's for the front and rear and be good to go? I don't do any EXTREME off roading, however I would like my T4R to be a little higher.

 

[K0nfusion]

also...I'm on an extreme tight budget with the Wife. I hope some of you can understrand that feeling.

 

[FatTiresRollin]

also...I'm on an extreme tight budget with the Wife. I hope some of you can understrand that feeling.

right there with you and the wife situation :cheers:

You can only raise the front (level the truck) if you only invest in bilsteins as only the front shocks are adjustable for the lift. if it is overall lift you desire, you will have to add a spacer or springs to the rear. if you are not interested in off-road performance, the same look can be accomplished with spacers only for a couple hundred dollars less...Daystar is among the most popular. Don't forget to factor in the cost of installation (if you can't do it yourself) and an alignment into your budget.

 

[K0nfusion]

Any special tools required? I'm pretty handy in the garage, however I've never done a suspension job. My tools are just the basic ratchets, wrenches, ect..

 

[TPatt88]

Any special tools required? I'm pretty handy in the garage, however I've never done a suspension job. My tools are just the basic ratchets, wrenches, ect..

I changed out the coilovers on my 92 Miata with just your basic tools, IE: ratchet set, torque wrench, breaker bar, jack, jack stands etc. Can't think the process is THAT different on our T4R's.

Tim

 

[Snow-Jet-MK5]

I have that exact setup with 5100 all around with ome 884 up front and superflex in the rear. Ride is definitely stiffer but comfortable. Allignment wasnt an issue either as I didnt have to replace the uca

 

[TPatt88]

I have that exact setup with 5100 all around with ome 884 up front and superflex in the rear. Ride is definitely stiffer but comfortable. Allignment wasnt an issue either as I didnt have to replace the uca

Thanks Snow-Jet! Did you upsize the tires?

Tim

 

[Snow-Jet-MK5]

I didn't change my tires yet as my fiance and I are expecting our first child and she has my money locked down. It was already hard enough trying to convince her to let me lift it as is.

 

[FatTiresRollin]

I have that exact setup with 5100 all around with ome 884 up front and superflex in the rear. Ride is definitely stiffer but comfortable. Allignment wasnt an issue either as I didnt have to replace the uca

As mentioned above...stock UCAs should be fine with stock tires. You can only get +2 caster, maybe a hair more out of the stock UCAs. The truck will drive OK at this setting, but not ideal. I thought everything was great while I had the stock UCAs...I was really fighting having to purchase the aftermarket UCAs. Once I did and had my caster increased to +5, it is a world of difference. with the +2 caster, steering is relatively loose which is not ideal at highway speeds or offroad. Truck drove OK before, now it is better than new. If you increase your tire size and/or get wider aftermarket wheels with a more aggressive negative offset, you will NEED aftermarket UCAs to get that extra caster to keep you from rubbing on the body mounts.

No special tools needed for the install. You can even avoid a spring compressor and make the installation that much easier and more safe if you configure your jack and stands properly. Here is a great write-up to follow for the install http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...%92s-ideas-since-mid-2010-a-6.html#post754964 . You can also search YouTube for some video on how to do a strut swap without a spring compressor.