The Spidertrax Shimmy

[willb0125]

Bone stock '15 TEP (no KDSS), about 8500 miles. Only mod is 1.25" Spidertrax spaces.

Here is the issue I am experiencing. Between 59 mph and 62 mph I get a noticeable vibration in the steering wheel. The really strange part is it seems once the tires warm up and the vehicle has been driver 70+ mph the vibration is greatly diminished.

I did the install myself following the manufactures directions to the letter. Have rechecked the torque settings after 50 and 500 miles. I took my time and made sure the hubs and wheels were completely clean and free of any rust or other debris. I feel the install was done correctly, I'm no mechanical genius but this was well within my ability.

These are the steps i have take so far to resolve this issue. Have had the tires balanced TWICE. The first shop used a regular wheel balance machine and there was no improvement at all. The second shop used a Hunter Road Force GSP9700 balancer, which found some issues with the first shops balance job. Initially I though this resolved the issue, but I think that was purely a placebo effect. Have also rotated the tires to no effect. :ybrick:

I are just curious if anyone else had experienced a similar issue using the Spidertrax spacers and if it was ever resolved?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[CraigRoberts]

I guess take the Spidertrax off and see if it disappears, then you will know for sure.

If it's gone, you can try reinstalling. If it persists, you might try returning them for possible out-of-spec variances.

 

[willb0125]

Yeah that was unfortunately going to be my next action.

I might try taking off the fronts and giving it a test drive to see if it helps at all.

 

[DAGNABIT]

if it was the spacer you would feel it at all speeds. Since you had the tires balanced I would say check your alignment.

 

[willb0125]

Interesting thought.

I had not thought the alignment could cause steering wheel shaking, but I'm not and engineer either.

I should probably remove the spacers first and see how it rides. If i still have the issue then its time to get Toyota involved.

 

[Rmack]

I know your frustration... I have lowered, lifted and put offset rims on several vehicles. This issue (some sort of vibration) has affected about 25% of them.

Based on your post there was no vibration before. The only thing added was spacers. Spacers only affect the wheel offset, and the new offset could be putting more stress on the front camber adjustment (negative camber force). This alone would normally not cause a vibration assuming all other factors are in tolerance.

The spacers themselves could be out of balance enough to cause this. like previously mentioned, only way to tell is remove them. I have never used spacers, but is it possible to have the wheels/tires balanced with the spacers installed on the wheel?

I feel your frustration.... hope you find the issue

 

[Crusifix]

I had a slight shimmy with my spacers, and I removed them and put them back on taking my time this go around. Now the shimmy is gone. The only thing I can think of is that something wasn't lined up right. FWIW, I have a TRDP, and the wheels don't have a bevel for the lug nuts to seat in.

 

[DAGNABIT]

spacers have ZERO affect on alignment

 

[willb0125]

I have been trying to avoid removing the spacers because I am old and lazy, but it seems like it will be the best course of action. I will especially enjoy my wife mocking me during the process.

Since the alignment has been brought up I would like to get a few peoples opinion on how sensitive the 5th gen is to road crowning and pulling. I find driving on some roads to be worse then others but it seems to really love to pull in the direction of the lane crown. Before the T4R i was driving Fords with EPAS systems so it may just be the difference between the kind of driver by wire steering feel and the more old school power steering in the Toyota.

 

[Ducmonsta]

if it was the spacer you would feel it at all speeds. Since you had the tires balanced I would say check your alignment.

spacers have ZERO affect on alignment

So much wrong here.

A rotational balance, or lack thereof in this case, wound NOT be felt at all speeds. Whether it's an out of balance tire or spacer, neither will consistently cause vibration at ALL speeds.

Spacers effectively widen the track width of a vehicle. Although minimal, this can change total toe sensitivity when performing an alignment.

OP, with such a new vehicle with only wheel spacers added and the problem happened after the modification, there's only one part of the equation that differed. Remove that part of the equation and I bet you'll find your answer.

However, the cause can only be installation or defect.

 

[willb0125]

Well I am hoping it is a manufacturer defect and not install error because I will really feel like a tool for spending almost $100 on balancing and rotations if it turns out to be my fault.

I am surprised that a relatively low mass object so close to the center of rotation could cause such noticeable vibrations. I would think the "bad" spacer would need to be massively unbalanced to get this effect.

 

[borfoo3]

When I removed my 1.25" spacers in the middle of an alignment, it threw the numbers off and needed more adjustment. So it did seem to affect the figures.

I also had a nasty steering wheel vibration issue within a similar speed range to yours (80km/h to 90km/h... or 50mph to 56mph).
60% of it was gone after a good tire balance and rotation with the two best up front (the BFG KO2s apparently were never balanced by the dealer when I bought it new).
Saw another 20% improvement after alignment.

Still vibrates, only 20% as much as before.. This much I can live with. Could speed up/down to avoid that window, but honestly just learned live with it.

 

[Bevo]

Did you rotate your tires from front to back when you added the spacers? You may have had a balance issue all along that you just didn't feel. Toyota steering is very sensitive to balance issues. Both my Tacoma and my FJ would shimmy from time to time. Especially after a rotation.

Also, the tire shop has to use the right adapter for Toyota wheels when balancing or they will never get it right.

 

[Mistaken]

Did you rotate your tires from front to back when you added the spacers? You may have had a balance issue all along that you just didn't feel. Toyota steering is very sensitive to balance issues. Both my Tacoma and my FJ would shimmy from time to time. Especially after a rotation.

Also, the tire shop has to use the right adapter for Toyota wheels when balancing or they will never get it right.

So true.

OP, good luck. I am installing mine soon and hope this doesnt come up...

 

[willb0125]

I wish it was as simple as another tire balance, but after 2 balances and 1 rotation with no results I have to suspect the spacers or install issues are the cause.

If it turns out to be the actual spacers I am really hoping Spidertrax is willing to work with me to replace them. We shall see.

 

[willb0125]

I was not aware of a specific adapter for the Toyota wheels on the balancers. The second shop I had the balance done at was a specialized tire shop that used a high end Road Force balancer. I was there talking to the guy the entire process so I saw each wheel get done but i am not sure what adapter they used for the wheels.

 

[ic0517]

I thought I saw SpiderTrax spacers are supposed to be put on with red Loctite, and a long time ago some machinist told me that if I use red loctite on "this" you will need to heat it up with a torch to get it off. True or not true?

Any way he can get a dial indicator on the spacer on the vehicle?

Found this el cheapo clamp on dial indicator at Harbor Freight ...
Clamping Dial Indicator

 

[Crusifix]

Just torque them down to around 90-95 lb-ft and call it a day. However, I would recheck their torque after the first 50 miles. If all is well, then they should be good to go. I've never had an issue with spacers on any vehicle. I had them on my old Jeep wrangler and was in places that should have ripped the wheels off, and they still held fine.

-Jeff

 

[Mistaken]

I was not aware of a specific adapter for the Toyota wheels on the balancers. The second shop I had the balance done at was a specialized tire shop that used a high end Road Force balancer. I was there talking to the guy the entire process so I saw each wheel get done but i am not sure what adapter they used for the wheels.

Yeah its pretty lame. One Discount Tire by me doesnt have the plate needed and I wasnt aware of this until I had gone back 5 times! On the 5th time the guy suggested I go to a different Discount Tire to get it balanced correctly. I did and it was all good. Was a pain but worked out in the end... :cheer2:

 

[DAGNABIT]

So much wrong here.

A rotational balance, or lack thereof in this case, wound NOT be felt at all speeds. Whether it's an out of balance tire or spacer, neither will consistently cause vibration at ALL speeds.

Spacers effectively widen the track width of a vehicle. Although minimal, this can change total toe sensitivity when performing an alignment.

OP, with such a new vehicle with only wheel spacers added and the problem happened after the modification, there's only one part of the equation that differed. Remove that part of the equation and I bet you'll find your answer.

However, the cause can only be installation or defect.

I disagree but I dont own a shop I only stayed at a holiday inn express. widening the track without making any changes to the lift height isnt going to prompt the need for an alignment. It is no different that slapping new wheels on that have an other than stock backspacing. Sorry but not gonna buy it. I respect your experience and knowledge of the 4runner platform but I respectfully disagree. with both statements.