"this easy, that easy:" more Black Bear Pass rollovers

[Jimmy_D]

I feel like it would be a lot less intimidating going up

Most of the folks I've been off-road with are far more uncomfortable going down than up. I took a group on 'Behind The Rocks' in Moab one time and most, if not all, of them had a great deal of experience. It spooked a number of them since most of the extreme obstacles are going down on that particular trail. On one of the runs I did headed up Black Bear there were a couple of H-1 Hummers and it was a bit disconcerting being behind them and watching them crawl up on the uphill side slightly to avoid having their downhill tires drop off the edge. Other than that one instance going up Black Bear wasn't bad at all.

 

[Flyer]

I have done it a few times but I would not do it in any vehicle without solid axles. The funny thing is that when I got my first Jeep in 2012, that is where I went. It scared the heck out of me but it was too damn late to turn around (you literally can't turn and backing up (without 4x4 in reverse) is near impossible too. So I said what the heck and asked my friend to get out of the Jeep for her safety. I walked the stairs twice and picked my line. I went down it solo and made my friend walk it down. That was a bit scary for sure. After that, it was a bit less scary each time but I still would not do it in a truck or an IFS vehicle. Many do...just not me.

 

[RonJR]

... and backing up (without 4x4 in reverse) is near impossible too.

Curious, what 4wd vehicle doesn't have 4x4 in reverse?

 

[Flyer]

Not sure if there technically are or if that is even possible, but there seems to be a ton more DS binding when in reverse (in 4Lo) since you can hardly go back and up in a straight line on those trails. Forget about lockers in those tight spots too. Of course, it is too scary/stupid on those steeps to take it out of 4Lo. So the only way is forward in those cases. The stairs was especially scary for me since I was such a newbie, and the only place I ever considered backing up.

 

[RonJR]

I'm with you that backing up on steep slopes can be intimidating, and without good spotting it can be hard to keep to a workable line. That being said, the drive train itself doesn't care which direction you are going, and shouldn't bind up one way more than the other.

 

[Shepherd214]

Guess you've all seen this one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2R5cLghSWGQ?start=193" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MAST4R]

Curious, what 4wd vehicle doesn't have 4x4 in reverse?

Not a 4x4 technically, but Subarus have big trouble reversing over a rough spot. Ask me how I know

Outbacks, Foresters, and XVs have all done Black Bear, so there is that.

In fact, BB is a bizarre trail, I am sure that a Subaru is less scary over the tippy spots than an IFS 4x4. I did many trails there in my OB, on upgraded brakes, and lots faster than Wranglers and Toyotas in both directions, but drew a line on BB. Others do it but I thought it is just not right even if doable.

 

[Flyer]

What some don't realize is that after a rain (or during even) Black Bear and several passes there, become really really slippery. There are stretches of slippery soil that are not everywhere but can catch the unwary off-guard. I'll never run Black Bear in those conditions. I have been caught out in a downpour once. It was hard enough to start causing rockslides. I was near the end of Engineer Pass intending to come back via Cinnamon Pass. Instead, I went to Lake City and took the LONG way home on the highway, and almost got caught by a rockfall there.

 

[Jimmy_D]

I have been caught out in a downpour once. It was hard enough to start causing rockslides

I had a buddy meet me in Telluride one time (we were both in FJ's). We were there to do the Rotary Club's annual Black Bear Pass run going up. When he was going to head back to Dallas we decided to go over Imogene Pass to Ouray and he was going to take off from there. There was another friend visiting who was riding with me. We did Imogene and had lunch in Ouray. It was pouring rain the whole time. I decided to take Mineral Creek/California Pass/Hurricane Pass/Corkscrew Pass/Ophir Pass back to Telluride. When I got to Corkscrew it was really spooky heading down. There were serious slides in a number of spots across the trail that we had to go over, and the severe off-camber nature of crossing those slides was more than a bit unnerving. I found out a few days later that around the same time we were doing that run someone in a rented jeep who was right where Hurricane Pass drops down and Corkscrew Pass takes off was killed by a large boulder that had dislodged and crashed through the roof. Lesson learned about doing runs in that area in a heavy downpour.

 

[Flyer]

Close call! Off-road slides can be fatal. Yeah, I actually almost got hit by a rockslide on the highway. I knew there wold be slides on Corkscrew, American, and even Engineer. So we got on the highway and took the long way back. The water/rocks suddenly flowed over the top of the cliff like a waterfall. It missed me by 50-60 ft as I passed it a few seconds before it hit the road, but the truck that was going the other way had a trailer and the trailer's rear portion got hit and it pushed them almost all the way off the road. We stopped and he managed to get the trailer straight and wanted to hightail it out. We did too. After that, I developed a habit of looking up at the cliffs for water flow.

 

[MAST4R]

I had a buddy meet me in Telluride one time (we were both in FJ's). We were there to do the Rotary Club's annual Black Bear Pass run going up. When he was going to head back to Dallas we decided to go over Imogene Pass to Ouray and he was going to take off from there. There was another friend visiting who was riding with me. We did Imogene and had lunch in Ouray. It was pouring rain the whole time. I decided to take Mineral Creek/California Pass/Hurricane Pass/Corkscrew Pass/Ophir Pass back to Telluride. When I got to Corkscrew it was really spooky heading down. There were serious slides in a number of spots across the trail that we had to go over, and the severe off-camber nature of crossing those slides was more than a bit unnerving. I found out a few days later that around the same time we were doing that run someone in a rented jeep who was right where Hurricane Pass drops down and Corkscrew Pass takes off was killed by a large boulder that had dislodged and crashed through the roof. Lesson learned about doing runs in that area in a heavy downpour.

Close call! Off-road slides can be fatal. Yeah, I actually almost got hit by a rockslide on the highway. I knew there wold be slides on Corkscrew, American, and even Engineer. So we got on the highway and took the long way back. The water/rocks suddenly flowed over the top of the cliff like a waterfall. It missed me by 50-60 ft as I passed it a few seconds before it hit the road, but the truck that was going the other way had a trailer and the trailer's rear portion got hit and it pushed them almost all the way off the road. We stopped and he managed to get the trailer straight and wanted to hightail it out. We did too. After that, I developed a habit of looking up at the cliffs for water flow.

Good points. I know that a couple of very experienced Jeepers got killed when their Jeep was washed off BB in a downpour a few years ago.

That's a phenomenal loop, Mineral Cr-Cal-Hur-Cork. Corkscrew clay is for real.

And, yeah, 550 ain't exactly the least dramatic road! I have seen people drive all the way into the opposite lane on the exposed section around the Mineral Creek TH.

 

[RonJR]

Good points. I know that a couple of very experienced Jeepers got killed when their Jeep was washed off BB in a downpour a few years ago.

That's a phenomenal loop, Mineral Cr-Cal-Hur-Cork. Corkscrew clay is for real.

And, yeah, 550 ain't exactly the least dramatic road! I have seen people drive all the way into the opposite lane on the exposed section around the Mineral Creek TH.

I've done that loop a couple of times. First time was about 30 years ago in a 1984 Suburban. A real beast on the trails, but a bit unwieldy to say the least! Three and five point turns coming down Corkscrew!

Went back and did it a few years ago in my slightly lifted '06 4runner. Much easier!

Both times were in dry conditions, so I can't speak to the clay on Corkscrew, but looking at the soil there I can imagine it could get pretty slippery.

I get more nervous on 550 in Uncompahgre canyon than I do on a one-lane 4wd shelf road. Something about the higher speeds means that things can go really wrong a lot quicker.

 

[Meat Head]

what's happening these days is that a lot of people are going out and buying top trim 4Rs and Jeeps and think that makes them an off roader when it doesn't..While they may have "capable" vehicles, they don't necessarily have the skills/experience to use them correctly, so that false sense of "I can do anything" gets them into trouble..that's just my two cents..I've been into my fair share of tight spots with my offroad rig and fortunately never rolled, but I've come close and seen it happen..

^^^^This. We go up there every year. Black Bear isn’t hard, if you know what you are doing. It is unforgiving. I think social media plays into this as well. Gotta post Black Bear pics (or insert other famous trail) on The Book of Faces or Snack Chat to be one of the cool kids.

 

[Romeo1]

^^^^This. We go up there every year. Black Bear isn’t hard, if you know what you are doing. It is unforgiving. I think social media plays into this as well. Gotta post Black Bear pics (or insert other famous trail) on The Book of Faces or Snack Chat to be one of the cool kids.

Do it for the gram right? Lol. Sometimes I really hate the book face. The amount of shit, hate and discontent it causes. It makes people (women especially) think shits better than it really is.

Seems to be a regular thing. Super boojie overland stuff that never sees dirt. Spouses that spew all kinds of bs about all the great shit they do 2 weeks before they get divorced……. Clownish. Absolutely clownish I tell ya.

Then the social one up’ing happens. Local group ride happened the other day. Had a semi famous personality on it. Me being the FNG to the formal group, but knowing the area they were going like the back of my hand from 30years of it being my playground, I asked where they were going.

They couldn’t tell me where, just that i needed 35” or better and lockers……. Damn I’m thinking, these guys must know a kickass spot, holy hell…….. newp……. I couldn’t make the ride, but the video dropped………. And much to my angst (I looked like chris Farley pulling his hair while watching almost the whole time ) they took quite literally the easiest road across. Like I would have driven my awd sienna…….. in fact I was up there 2 months ago and a lost elderly couple was there with an effing rascal scooter on the back of their CUV……FML. Here I am shopping for crazy sas setups, long travel, and how to fit 35’s stuff for my 3rd gen thinking my rig isn’t capable enough to hang…..

Moral of the story, things aren’t always what they seem. Flexing on others for points is a real thing, even if it’s stupid. And, many of these localles that people talk up to be real man eater spots, don’t quite live up. Reality is stupid kills and you can flip over anywhere doing dumb stuff.

 

[Flyer]

There are spots that are just safer on 35s but can be done on 32s. For me, the flex/articulation is what makes the traction way better with all 4 wheels on the ground so I run a Wrangler. My 4th Gen would need a lot of work to get there, and prob never could unless I did a solid axle conversion. I'll go up Poughkeepsie without a winch pull though tires play a part too an my MTRs are great on rocks....they slip far less than my DuraTracs and KO2s at the 10-12 PSI range...sidehill or straight up/down.

I think people get in over their heads without know or realizing it. I have seen them do some pretty stupid stiff. I have a small toddler and I support my older and unwell parents so I can't, even if I were dumb enough to try some of the stupid off-camber crap I see people do, knowing that the vehicle is right at the edge already.

You guys are right- equipment increases the safety margins and capability but experience can't be beaten. I don't know anywhere near as much as some of the guys who have been exploring different terrain here for 30-40 years. I like learning from them when I do run into them. I off-road less now...too many people out there. It may be time to start doing this more in the winter.

 

[Romeo1]

There are spots that are just safer on 35s but can be done on 32s. For me, the flex/articulation is what makes the traction way better with all 4 wheels on the ground so I run a Wrangler. My 4th Gen would need a lot of work to get there, and prob never could unless I did a solid axle conversion. I'll go up Poughkeepsie without a winch pull though tires play a part too an my MTRs are great on rocks....they slip far less than my DuraTracs and KO2s at the 10-12 PSI range...sidehill or straight up/down.

I think people get in over their heads without know or realizing it. I have seen them do some pretty stupid stiff. I have a small toddler and I support my older and unwell parents so I can't, even if I were dumb enough to try some of the stupid off-camber crap I see people do, knowing that the vehicle is right at the edge already.

You guys are right- equipment increases the safety margins and capability but experience can't be beaten. I don't know anywhere near as much as some of the guys who have been exploring different terrain here for 30-40 years. I like learning from them when I do run into them. I off-road less now...too many people out there. It may be time to start doing this more in the winter.

Your right about the solid axle being more planted. They just are is the reality. Almost on all roads/trails, a good line and a good spotter address it, but there’s no doubt that solid axles do better there.

I’m in the same boat. Having to wake up and be somebody does change the decision matrix when risk is involved. People do get in over their heads and it shows most of the time. There’s something to be said for experience in all walks of life.

 

[Jimmy_D]

Just ran across this pic from Black Bear:

 

[MAST4R]

Just ran across this pic from Black Bear:

Interestingly enough, this ain't the first one I see in that spot. Not sure what makes them climb on the driver side. It is neither that tight or rocky or whatever. The spot prior to the rocky switchback, I get it for it requires some experience, but this one I don't.

 

[2NDHOUSE]

Nuts

 

[Romeo1]

Interestingly enough, this ain't the first one I see in that spot. Not sure what makes them climb on the driver side. It is neither that tight or rocky or whatever. The spot prior to the rocky switchback, I get it for it requires some experience, but this one I don't.

What the……. Why? Just why were they trying to go up that wall? They had to been way up there to get tipped over that high to the driver side……Shesh….