Thoughts on Electric Turbo?

[lhsoulrebel]

Easily? How easily are we talking about? I'd like to see data and info for an exhaust driven generator with enough output to recharge a LiPo battery.

Here's some data for the electric "turbo" used to pre-spool the turbo in the unreleased Audi's
The proposed 48-volt system will lower the required amperage to a workable 145 amps.
In a 12v system, the amp requirement is around 580. That's a lot of amps!

I would never install anything larger than a 50-60 volt battery in anything I require safety in, because that's a dangerous voltage to be shocked with, in case of an accident. The cost of a dual voltage system isn't fun to think about. Here, we're back to just using a conventional turbo or a supercharger, due to the cost vs yield.

Now let's talk about your exhaust driven generator again. The pressure required to keep an exhaust driven turbine happy is pretty insane. In order to keep the pressure consistent for your "rear mounted" assembly, you would have to throttle the pipe diameter in order to keep enough flow to even manage an output. Which means, reduced engine power because of too much backpressure, and that means a lot of losses that aren't being recovered by your proposed system. That, and I would never install anything electronic near something that gets as hot as exhaust gas. Which then means a belt pulley system, which means increased drag, and reduced output.

Lastly, how do you manage the speed of the generator? There IS such a thing as "too fast" for an alternator. Output doesn't 1:1 scale with speed.

Constant speed generators and variable speed generators have been around for decades. They are used on jet engines (usually light weight and pretty simple in design... They have to be to provide consistent power for the extremely high electrical demands of today's modern jets) they typically use gear reductions and something similar to a torque converter to maintain a working constant speed. They also generate obscene power... Medium CSG's can produce 45kva... I'm sure it can be done .

 

[IBallEngineer]

I feel like it would have to work similar to the vacuum actuated secondary "woompers" on a Rochester quadrajet.

Oh yeah, I remember those, in 1978 I was drag racing my 75 Caprice against a 78 Coupe de Ville down 4th street in E.L.A. My little 350 hit the secondaries and I was off the line quicker than the Caddy! But the 425 Cad caught me 1/2 a block down the street and proceeded to leave me.

I loved the sound of the Rochester Q-Jet, but the truth is a well tuned 2V was almost as fast, and was easier on fuel.

Wait, I didn't just say all that, i was never in E.L.A in 1978...

:der:

 

[Black798]

Do you guys not realize that there are tens of thousands of automotive engineers around the world that would be all over something like this if it were feasible? It just isn't.

We will see how that pans out because if i remember correctly people said that about cell phones as well. There are ways to make it work. It will just take time. In the meantime if you find a cheaper alternative for forced induction then let me know because that is why i even thought of the idea. I live at 6,000 feet above sea level so my 5vfe is lacking, but I do not have thousands of dollars to dump into a supercharger. I am only trying to get input on possibilities. I appreciate your responses but I believe many of you are being extremely closed minded

 

[jeremyc74]

We will see how that pans out because if i remember correctly people said that about cell phones as well. There are ways to make it work. It will just take time. In the meantime if you find a cheaper alternative for forced induction then let me know because that is why i even thought of the idea. I live at 6,000 feet above sea level so my 5vfe is lacking, but I do not have thousands of dollars to dump into a supercharger. I am only trying to get input on possibilities. I appreciate your responses but I believe many of you are being extremely closed minded

No one who was working with cell phones EVER doubted where they were headed.

We're not being closed minded, we're working within the laws of energy conservation and being realistic about what it will take to achieve your goals.

You'll never make a system like this more cost effective than a simple turbocharger or supercharger. There are too many moving parts involved, and too much redundancy. You still need everything involved in the supercharger system, plus a lot more.

If you really need more power the most cost effective option is probably to save up and trade vehicles. Getting substantially more (reliable) power out of a 3rd gen isn't going to be cheap no matter how you approach it.

As I said before, if this were feasible someone would already be doing it. It's certainly not the first time someone has thought about electric supercharging.

It goes back to the old adage:

Cheap
Fast
Reliable

Pick two. :fish:

 

[Scramble]

Hey everybody, so with the recent discontinuation of the trd supercharger and the outrageous cost of one or a turbo kit. Ive been rolling the concept of an electric turbo through my head. Now im not talking about one of those pos scams on ebay or the turbos that only work at full throttle. Im thinking of taking a real turbo compressor and putting it onto a variable speed brushless dc motor, possibly with a gear reduction system to achieve the necessary speeds. I would then take the compressor set up and place it inline between the air box and throttle body. Then to achieve the proper boost control i would have some sort of vacuum controller that would control the speed of the motor giving me entirely variable boost regardless of throttle position. This way i can eliminate the intercooler and the extensive piping. Overall I would plan on achieving roughly 5-6 psi of boost, so im safely inside the capability of stock components until i have the money for better fuel delivery.

So im just putting this thread out there to see what other peoples thoughts are on the idea. Call me cheap but i just cant justify the 4,000ish dollars for a turbo or trd supercharger. So if anyone else has some input let me know if im just a l high schooler that has no clue what im getting into or if i might be onto something.

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[MTD]

Deleted

 

[Brilliant]

I'm holding out for Mr. Fusion.

Fusion powered turbo? Pleae explain....

 

[Brilliant]

I like how the OP hasn't even said anything for the last two pages opcorn:

When has this ever stopped a good thread?

 

[StreetCreeper]

I'm holding out for Mr. Fusion.

Great Scott! That's perfect for an electric turbo! I can personally attest that the Mr. Fusion energy reactor is more than capable of generating enough electricity to power a turbo; in fact, my good friend Marty needed 1.21 gigawatts to get home the other day — and gosh damn if Mr. Fusion didn't deliver every last watt he needed!

I have a friend who knows a guy at Fusion Industries...

Anyone interested in a group buy?

Mr. Fusion Energy Reactior| Recommended for electric turbos....and time travel.

 

[Black798]

Rotrex A/S

This company is who URD uses for their FJ supercharger kits. They also have a electical charger.

Performance Toyota Turbocharger Kits

Thanks Scramble, Ill look into that

 

[02SE]

You're missing the point that a constant-boost application in a mobile automotive application, isn't feasible, unless you wanted to tow a large portable generator everywhere.

Even Rotrex themselves acknowledges the limitations of the E-charger system. Here's their list of suitable automotive applications:

Typical applications for the automotive/mobile system are: Air pumps for fuel cells (10kW - 1MW output), pre-boosters for downsized turbocharged engines, forced exhaust gas recirculation, particle filter regeneration systems etc.

As a momentary pre-booster for downsized Turbocharged engines, is how Audi is utilizing the limited-use-in-a-car, technology.

More power to you if you think you can invent a new technology that so far has eluded Engineers all over the world, to make a constant-boost E-charger feasible in an automotive application.

Maybe a small nuclear reactor is an option..

 

[jeremyc74]

Rotrex A/S

This company is who URD uses for their FJ supercharger kits. They also have a electical charger.


Thanks Scramble, Ill look into that

The compressor/motor alone is $2300 and doesn't include anything else.

How is that a cost effective option?

https://jacksonracing.com/shop/rotrex-supercharger-units/rotrex-c38-supercharger-units/

 

[St Runner]

From a practical standpoint Clownmeat's rear turbo was the most effective way pricewise to get more hp out of this engine. The reality though is that this is all about perception. The rest of the world drives 2 liter engines or mopeds with 3 people on them and they are perfectly fine. Only in America are we underpowered because we don't have 5.7 liters under the hood and can't chirp the tires in third gear. There is nothing wrong with a 4runner and a 3.4, it will get you to every legal speed limit in the country without any problem. If you want performance for a 1000$ go buy a 20 year old Japanese super bike. You can then go as fast as you ever wanted and more.

 

[snivilous]

Why aren't you spending like $600 like clownmeat and rocklobster did and piecing/making a conventional turbocharger setup?

 

[steezemcqueen]

I spent way more than $600 on my setup. Probably close to triple that all said and done.

 

[Clownmeat]

I spent around $800.

 

[rideexileex]

From the Audi post, the whole "electric turbo" mentioned through this thread is just like the smaller turbo used in bi-turbo systems. It's just to reduce lag, not to power the whole turbo system itself. My own commentary, is that I imagine this industry will come and go quickly... It's just a concept car. Electric vehicles are more efficient, and thanks to the EPA, I only imagine which technology will be the focus...

REFERENCE:
"One quick clarification: turbos, by definition, use exhaust gas to power their compressors. So an electrically driven compressor would actually be a supercharger, not a turbocharger. However, because the electric compressors are used in tandem with turbos, they are commonly referred to as electric turbochargers. Technically they are compound turbocharger/electric supercharger systems."
ALSO
"With an electric turbo installed to eliminate lag, the exhaust-driven turbo can be sized for maximum power at wide-open throttle, McKinley pointed out. "You will do things differently in terms of turbo sizing for the high-load, high-pressure situations," he said."

 

[Black798]

Why aren't you spending like $600 like clownmeat and rocklobster did and piecing/making a conventional turbocharger setup?

I would love to do a setup like rock lobster or clownmeat. But I realistically can not spend close to 2000 like rocklobster. I also want to keep the stock airbox so i dont have to move the maf around, and idont want to tap into oil lines and all of that. Im very mechanically inclined, been working on cars since i was 2. But piecing together a turbo onto my daily seems far too daunting.

 

[cashmoney]

So spread the cost out over time so it's not a big hit. I think it's clownmeat that is building the exhaust for the rear mount turbo for a $150. Turbos are $200-400. Scavenge pump is $150-200. Wastegates and bov's aren't to terribly expensive. Then misc lines, fittings, and pipes.

 

[fblainen11]

Thermodynamics.