Timely review, 4Runner Trail v. Jeep GC

[Quentin]

Slow down there, fella. I've never said that auto mag or auto blog articles are not influenced by the manufacturers. They are. That is the whole point of the luxurious, liquor-soaked junkets.

All I'm trying to say is that TTAC has its own biases which are just as bad.

The TTAC "reviews" are typically based on a 20 minute test drive, and in the past involved little more than spleen-venting. I stopped reading TTAC after Farago's disgraceful performance on Autoline After Hours.

I didn't say anything about TTAC reviews being any better. I just said that Baruth did a good job of shedding some light, while being a bit sarcastic and stereotypical for the sake of being interesting to read, on the whole process of many of these comparisons.

To be fair to Farago, everyone in that whole thing was combative from the beginning and he simply didn't have the experience required to not come off like a raving lunatic in a live action discussion. I'm sure that most of us would come off like raving lunatics if we were sat in front of a camera to talk about something we're passionate about. And John McElroy is a ****bag, IMO. 80% of the articles I've read by him leave me rolling my eyes.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Bump/Move

 

[Thai]

Bump/Move

Just when i was about to move on...you just had to bump it! If i go bezerk in this thread, you can't ban me now!:bravo:

 

[M1911]

To be fair to Farago, everyone in that whole thing was combative from the beginning and he simply didn't have the experience required to not come off like a raving lunatic in a live action discussion. I'm sure that most of us would come off like raving lunatics if we were sat in front of a camera to talk about something we're passionate about. And John McElroy is a ****bag, IMO. 80% of the articles I've read by him leave me rolling my eyes.

While I often disagree with McElroy, that doesn't make him a ****bag, it just makes me disagree with him.

During the Autoline After Hours segment, McElroy was very polite to Farago. He was never combative -- it was Farago who was combative. McElroy just disagreed with him, but did so politely, and Farago couldn't deal with someone who disagrees with him. Peter DeLorenzo didn't say much of anything.

Both McElroy and DeLorenzo are just as passionate about the auto industry as Farago. The difference is that they can explain their views without becoming unhinged. Farago's performance on that show was consistent with his writings -- unhinged.

I think we'll to agree to disagree about this subject.

 

[snap315]

I'm glad the JGC won.

Since I plan on trading in my 2005 4Runner for a 2011 JGC Overland 4x4 V8!

:fro:

I'm just waiting to see if the JGCs show good reliability (and to see a Quadra-Lift equipped one in person before I buy).

 

[harper7]

I'm glad the JGC won.

Since I plan on trading in my 2005 4Runner for a 2011 JGC Overland 4x4 V8!

:fro:

I'm just waiting to see if the JGCs show good reliability (and to see a Quadra-Lift equipped one in person before I buy).

So the Motor Trend article did influence you in this decision?
Good luck and maybe we'll see some pics with you out on the trails in it.
......................or the mall.

 

[10majfar]

/\ :lol: /\

 

[Jed]

I'm glad the JGC won.

Since I plan on trading in my 2005 4Runner for a 2011 JGC Overland 4x4 V8!

:fro:

I'm just waiting to see if the JGCs show good reliability (and to see a Quadra-Lift equipped one in person before I buy).

Trust me, you won't be the only one. I predict lots of guys will go from their 4th gen to a Grand Cherokee because they don't care for the looks of the 5th gen. Either that or hold on to the 4th gen until the 6th gen comes out and hope that Toyota makes the 6th gen a good looking SUV again!! That's my plan.

 

[Jed]

So the Motor Trend article did influence you in this decision?
.

Not sure how much you actually read his posts, but he pretty much had his mind made up to buy a new Grand Cherokee months ago.

 

[Koz]

I'm just waiting to see if the JGCs show good reliability (and to see a Quadra-Lift equipped one in person before I buy).

Good luck with that!

Koz

 

[Jed]

Good luck with that!

Koz

Or he could just do what you're planning if he doesn't mind spending the big bux on a Lexus instead.:lookout:

 

[M1911]

I'm just waiting to see if the JGCs show good reliability (and to see a Quadra-Lift equipped one in person before I buy).

I'm hoping it has better reliability than in the past. I'd like to be able to consider a GC when I have to replace my '03 4th Gen. Hopefully I'll have a few years before I have to replace it.

 

[Jed]

I'm hoping it has better reliability than in the past. I'd like to be able to consider a GC when I have to replace my '03 4th Gen. Hopefully I'll have a few years before I have to replace it.

This is a very important vehicle for Jeep, and from what I've heard/read it seems that they are going above & beyond their normal development to build it right from the beginning. The reliability may very well turn out to be excellent, but I always live by the "never buy a first year vehicle" rule, which is even something that I did when I bought my 2004 4Runner.

 

[Koz]

This is a very important vehicle for Jeep, and from what I've heard/read it seems that they are going above & beyond their normal development to build it right from the beginning. The reliability may very well turn out to be excellent, but I always live by the "never buy a first year vehicle" rule, which is even something that I did when I bought my 2004 4Runner.

You guys have to be kidding as far as Heep's reliability! What makes you think something has changed. Reliability and Heep should be used in the same sentence. If you plan on leasing, not to worry. Back when my 05 was new a friend (Brand new hemi JGC) and I (V8 Limited) went off-roading. The Heep got stuck twice on the trails and crapped out on the trip home (Had to be flat bedded). Turns out the alternator fried from some water passes on the trail. The funny part was when he brought it to the Stealer and they told him it wasn't covered under the warranty because this happened off-road. My friend pointed to the "Trail Rated" badge on the fender and the service adviser told him "Just because it has the emblem on the fender doesn't mean you can go off-road! Talk about being pissed off, $500 True Story!

Koz

 

[Jed]

You guys have to be kidding as far as Heep's reliability! What makes you think something has changed. Reliability and Heep should be used in the same sentence. If you plan on leasing, not to worry. Back when my 05 was new a friend (Brand new hemi JGC) and I (V8 Limited) went off-roading. The Heep got stuck twice on the trails and crapped out on the trip home (Had to be flat bedded). Turns out the alternator fried from some water passes on the trail. The funny part was when he brought it to the Stealer and they told him it wasn't covered under the warranty because this happened off-road. My friend pointed to the "Trail Rated" badge on the fender and the service adviser told him "Just because it has the emblem on the fender doesn't mean you can go off-road! Talk about being pissed off, $500 True Story!

Koz

Sorry, but one story doesn't convince me that Jeep's are inherently unreliable. And it certainly doesn't guarantee that the new one will not be reliable either.

The funny thing to me is that everyone thinks Toyotas are so reliable (and I agree for the most part), but when you look at the actual statistics, the difference between an average Toyota and an average Jeep isn't that mind blowing. If I have a one in ten chance of developing a problem with my 4Runner and a two in ten chance of developing a problem in a Jeep, then sure, my odds are twice as bad. But the fact of the matter is that I still only have a two in ten chance of developing a problem in the Jeep. And that's not a big deal really.... very few Jeeps are lemons statistically speaking. And they come with warranties, right? So why get so hung up on reliability?

 

[Thai]

You guys have to be kidding as far as Heep's reliability! What makes you think something has changed. Reliability and Heep should be used in the same sentence. If you plan on leasing, not to worry. Back when my 05 was new a friend (Brand new hemi JGC) and I (V8 Limited) went off-roading. The Heep got stuck twice on the trails and crapped out on the trip home (Had to be flat bedded). Turns out the alternator fried from some water passes on the trail. The funny part was when he brought it to the Stealer and they told him it wasn't covered under the warranty because this happened off-road. My friend pointed to the "Trail Rated" badge on the fender and the service adviser told him "Just because it has the emblem on the fender doesn't mean you can go off-road! Talk about being pissed off, $500 True Story!

Koz

Not defending the Jeep, but Koz, your story makes no sense.

Ok, water got into the alternator and the Jeep died. Maybe it was an unlucky splash? How is this related to reliability?? If the 4runner alternator went out, then it will die too.:happens:

And yes, if the alternator went out due to off-roading, NO COMPANY WILL COVER IT, regardless if it is Jeep, Land Rover, or Toyota. Now, the dealer may make exceptions if they are nice (or if you are nice). But, no, no one will cover an off-road mishap.

How about those Tacomas (and early FJs) with broken rear differentials? Did Toyota cover them? Nope. Did Toyota blame off-roading on a Tacoma with TRD off-road package? Yup.

Trail Rated badge is what the vehicle can do. It is NOT an insurance plan. yeah, Koz, i think that you're showing your bias in this story.

 

[Thai]

Sorry, but one story doesn't convince me that Jeep's are inherently unreliable. And it certainly doesn't guarantee that the new one will not be reliable either.

The funny thing to me is that everyone thinks Toyotas are so reliable (and I agree for the most part), but when you look at the actual statistics, the difference between an average Toyota and an average Jeep isn't that mind blowing. If I have a one in ten chance of developing a problem with my 4Runner and a two in ten chance of developing a problem in a Jeep, then sure, my odds are twice as bad. But the fact of the matter is that I still only have a two in ten chance of developing a problem in the Jeep. And that's not a big deal really.... very few Jeeps are lemons statistically speaking. And they come with warranties, right? So why get so hung up on reliability?

Jed, i disagree. There is a signficant difference in quality, reliability, AND DURABILITY b/w your average Jeep and Toyota. Warranty only lasts so long. Durability is what matters. And reliability issues are nonetheless pain in the ass for owners, even while under warranty. The ONLY Jeep that has really done relatively well in terms of reliability (and maybe durability) is the Jeep Wrangler. Resale value reflects this. Otherwise, the other Jeeps are pretty much junk...hopefully, the new 2011 JGC will be different. (And yeah, i am a Jeep fan too!)

 

[Thai]

My friend pointed to the "Trail Rated" badge on the fender and the service adviser told him "Just because it has the emblem on the fender doesn't mean you can go off-road! Talk about being pissed off, $500 True Story!

Koz

You can show your friend this: Jeep - 4x4 Basics - Trail-Rated Certification - 4WD SUVs

If you're going off-road, then be prepare to man up and take the damages in stride. No need to whine about it.

 

[Jed]

Jed, i disagree. There is a signficant difference in quality, reliability, AND DURABILITY b/w your average Jeep and Toyota. Warranty only lasts so long. Durability is what matters. And reliability issues are nonetheless pain in the ass for owners, even while under warranty. The ONLY Jeep that has really done relatively well in terms of reliability (and maybe durability) is the Jeep Wrangler. Resale value reflects this. Otherwise, the other Jeeps are pretty much junk...hopefully, the new 2011 JGC will be different. (And yeah, i am a Jeep fan too!)

Durability matters beyond the warranty period. For a lot of people, they won't have to worry beyond the powertrain warranty timeline.

But again, when you say there is a 'significant' difference, just look at numbers...not gut feelings or generalizations. Statistically, the Jeep is likely to run without any major issues at all, at least from the data so far on the current generation models. That's a fact and easily proven by anyone willing to look at the data. Instead of comparing Jeep to Toyota (or any other manufacturer), lets look at the odds of buying/owning a new Jeep and going through the first, say, four years of ownership without having any breakdowns or issues. The odds are still way in your favor of not having issues.

The whole reliability thing makes me smile....mostly because people (and magazines/other organizations) like to put them in a ranking order. Land Rover is usually at the bottom or dead last. That doesn't mean someone who buys a Land Rover will have his vehicle in the shop every week. In fact, lots of Land Rover owners don't have any problems at all. Maybe you'll consider them the "lucky" ones, but I think the people who have problems are the unlucky ones. My next door neighbor just turned in his Range Rover after a 3-year lease term. He made sure to brag to me that in the three years he owned it, he didn't have a single problem.

Forgot to say--- there's no reliability data on the new Grand Cherokee yet. So to assume that the new one will not be improved over the old model is just a blind assumption at this point in time.

 

[BrianLSU]

You can show your friend this: Jeep - 4x4 Basics - Trail-Rated Certification - 4WD SUVs

If you're going off-road, then be prepare to man up and take the damages in stride. No need to whine about it.

Yea, that was a common joke, or backhanded joke, with Wrangler owners. Whenever you had to bring it in on warranty issues, simple, stupid things, you better wash it first. If they could blame anything on off roading, they would. At least certain dealers. Also, you better find a good shop right up front too. If you were placed in the system as having modified the Jeep, lift, your little warranty is gone. All that "badge" is good for is toilet paper.
Mine went it 5 times over its 5 year lifespan for blown grease gaskets, slipping tranny, crappy paint coverage (you could see the primer), and finally a broke plastic pin that connects the transmission shifter to the transmission. That last one left me stranded at a Subway, the tow truck driver helped me duck tape the shifter linkage, this or no vehicle for 2 weeks. Oh, yea, it had 30K miles on it too.

Good luck to you new GC guys, look forward to seeing you back in a few years.