sandcrawler
Senior Member
i'm willing to bet you could:
#1) i've read your posts. :nerd:
#2) Starbucks is automated and homogenized to the bejeezus belt... it's just shy of a push-button operation.
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Tip on in-cabin air filter
- Thread starter AustinCyclist
- Start date
#1) i've read your posts. :nerd:
#2) Starbucks is automated and homogenized to the bejeezus belt... it's just shy of a push-button operation.
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homeyclaus
New member
Well if you want all that, Toyota dealerships are the WRONG place to go for that.
I have had:
- Oily handprints on a white fender on the passenger side. I was glad that had no brake fluid in it.
- All the stock tags and stickers left on a replacement catalytic converter, so things were smelling of freshly-burned plastic for a while.
- A tire rotated with 22 psi in it, in spite of being on the "40 or whatever point inspection" list at service.
- At the same rotation, they used an impact wrench on the lock nut and cracked the tool.
- Windshield wiper fluid still empty, that was also on the inspection list.
- And trim pieces on the door thrashed when they did recall work on my power window regulators and took them off with what seemed to be a prybar.
Each time, the responses were, in order:
"You're full of ****."
"You don't know what you're talking about."
"We have the best mechanics."
"Would you like a refund?"
The only reason I still went with the 4Runner was that it was free in terms of dollars (see what they did to my 4R in the oil change thread), and they had free donuts. Jackwagons, all of them.
i'm willing to bet you could:
#1) i've read your posts. :nerd:
#2) Starbucks is automated and homogenized to the bejeezus belt... it's just shy of a push-button operation.
It is a pushbutton operation. All they do is heat the milk and pour it into the cup, and occasionally refill the hopper at the top of the machine. They should just make that place coin operated.
1engineer
Moderator
i'm willing to bet you could:
#1) i've read your posts. :nerd:
#2) Starbucks is automated and homogenized to the bejeezus belt... it's just shy of a push-button operation.
I technically could but it's the automated tools that I do not have.
AustinCyclist
New member
yes, I don't disagree. I should have asked... that was the entire point of my post.. How I was stupid not to ask.. or even think to pay for something like that.
However.. on your earlier rant, I disagree with your logic, that I should just be appreciative of the waiting area, etc and pay up.. as $16 is apparently a bargain for service, even for 10 seconds of work. Some will agree, some won't. My post is for the folks who don't have cash to throw around.. I don't care if the waiting area is a slab of dirt in a field.. if I can save a couple hundred bucks, I'm fine with that.
Ducmonsta
New member
That's a little different than $16.
I'd like to save a couple hundred too!
I understand that most of us don't have money to just throw around. I was not suggesting that we waste any of it. But, merely, use it for what you want to use it for. For example, services rendered. I imagine you don't go out to any bars or restaurants, because the cost of beer in the exact same bottle that you can get at a grocery store is a total ripoff! (at this point, I'm just referring to the guys that save money by buying parts themselves)
Which leads me to another point. I use the internet, I buy things off of it. I save money by doing my research. But, I never question why it costs more to buy the exact same product in a retail store. I understand the cost of doing business. I appreciate the sales staff (if they're intelligent about their product). I appreciate the "get it now" factor. I appreciate the fact that whatever product I have purchased in this retail environment, now has a much easier return policy or warranty service (than online retailers).
So, if you're not going to buy a product in a retail store, good for you. Save the money and buy it online (I do this too!). But, do not go to the retail store to ask the salesman a bunch of questions, touch the product, feel it in your hands, just to go and buy it online. You've just wasted someone's time. However, I believe a good salesman will have caught what you were doing and sold you that very same product and all of it's features and benefits. At that point, you would realize...it's okay to spend the extra $16 because someone genuinely showed you your air filter and replaced it in 10 secs.
gamerc
New member
The last time my wife authorized any service to her vehicle it was to replace a light bulb.
Cost of bulb: $3
Cost of labor: $23
She still hears it from me when she asks if she needs to get someone's "recommended service." She had them tell her she needed new brakes, and when I took a look at them, they were still in the 50% range. I replaced them anyway, but damn. It sickens me when shops try to take advantage of people.
Cost of bulb: $3
Cost of labor: $23
She still hears it from me when she asks if she needs to get someone's "recommended service." She had them tell her she needed new brakes, and when I took a look at them, they were still in the 50% range. I replaced them anyway, but damn. It sickens me when shops try to take advantage of people.
limamike
New member
You may have that opinion, but it's not a correct perspective on the issue. You're paying a set labor rate, not for a unique service. Auto repair is NOT a service industry, it is a specialized labor industry in which the client pays a set rate for labor and parts. If you were contracting each instance of auto repair you would be doing so on a time and materials basis (which is the same way you get invoiced for every repair job you've ever had done at a shop). Just because ANYONE can do the job is irrelevant and not germane to the OP's point because he KNOWS he's paying for the specialized labor of the mechanic to do so at that specialized labor rate (or at least should have known). The point is that it cost $16 for 23 seconds worth of work. If for some reason changing the air filter actually took longer and closer to 15 minutes then the charge would be justified. But, it didn't and it doesn't so it's not.
If I bring the analogy back to contracted engineering work, let's say I contract you as an engineer to develop a new widget for me based on a set of requirements I provided to you. If I'm only contracting you and you alone then you are responsible for all the administrative tasks that go along with that: writing me reports, conducting design reviews, answering the phone when I call, etc. The fact that any admin assistant can do that work doesn't mean I should pay you any less (or any more) for those tasks because I contracted you to do the work. I expect you to charge me for the time it takes you to do each task -- whether it's answer my questions via email, or actually build the widget.
Without ranting further, the moral of the story is that auto repair is not a service industry in the same way Starbucks, restaurants, or dry cleaning is a service industry. Every other "repair" at a shop is done on the basis of time and materials for a specialized labor category (certified mechanic). The extrapolated cost of each "repair" should not be any different, thus rebuilding a transmission should be expensive and replacing the air filter should not.
Ducmonsta
New member
We'll agree to disagree here, politely.
That admin that answers calls at dealerships or repair facilities usually asks, "would you like Parts or "Service"?
Alldata, Mitchell on Demand, and other labor guides quote .3 hr for cabin air filter replacement. At $100/hr, the OP still owes $14 for labor.
I am not necessarily justifying the costs of some things that those labor quotes use. But, at the same time, if a repair takes a qualified technician 1hr to do a job that "pays" 3hrs, should we only charge 1?
Those labor guides are designed to work with a vehicle that is brand new or like new. 9 times out of 10, we do not get those fresh cars off the lot. We have to deal with rusted/broken bolts, seized/stripped locknuts, muddy undercarriages, etc. So there are many times a tech takes longer than the book labor. We can not charge more than that, or we're deemed ripoff con artists.
Bottom line, educate yourself in the process of what is being offered to you and you'll be much happier in the end.
That admin that answers calls at dealerships or repair facilities usually asks, "would you like Parts or "Service"?
Alldata, Mitchell on Demand, and other labor guides quote .3 hr for cabin air filter replacement. At $100/hr, the OP still owes $14 for labor.
I am not necessarily justifying the costs of some things that those labor quotes use. But, at the same time, if a repair takes a qualified technician 1hr to do a job that "pays" 3hrs, should we only charge 1?
Those labor guides are designed to work with a vehicle that is brand new or like new. 9 times out of 10, we do not get those fresh cars off the lot. We have to deal with rusted/broken bolts, seized/stripped locknuts, muddy undercarriages, etc. So there are many times a tech takes longer than the book labor. We can not charge more than that, or we're deemed ripoff con artists.
Bottom line, educate yourself in the process of what is being offered to you and you'll be much happier in the end.
axxman
Member
VW wants 120 to change the cabin filter on my mothers 04 jetta, I ordered it online for 7 dollars, Subaru tried to get me to pay 80 dollars to change the cabin filter on my car, I was 100% sure they were lying because I had just changed it the day before, along with the engine filter, on most cars it takes 1-2 minutes. If you like paying for it, fine, but I just couldn't do it even if I was a millionaire, it is not about the money as much as I cannot tolerate over paying for something. When I was young, I had to do everything myself, I was a poor student and had no other choice, clutches, exhausts, brakes etc, I have worked on them all. most of the prices listed here are not as outrageous as my subaru was but I still could not do it.
Kraeken
New member
I save a ton of money and get a better product by replacing the cabin air filters on my vehicles with ones that I make myself-
Go to the hardware store and buy a 1" thick 3M Filtrete central air/furnace filter. Cut out the proper size, finish the edge with electrical tape, pay attention to the direction of airflow, install it in the frame, and there you go! They are much better quality than the Toyota filters.
Go to the hardware store and buy a 1" thick 3M Filtrete central air/furnace filter. Cut out the proper size, finish the edge with electrical tape, pay attention to the direction of airflow, install it in the frame, and there you go! They are much better quality than the Toyota filters.
sandcrawler
Senior Member
meh, the OP shouldn't be so hard on himself. i'd seen this thread and i still paid $20 for a replacement at the parts counter today. check out the "new design"... way wimpier than the original it replaced. (btw: it just looks bigger in the pic b/c it's sitting on the box.) those carbon ones linked earlier or the 3M DIY look like better performing options.
nevertheless, glad i changed it. that original was really filthy after 2 years.
nevertheless, glad i changed it. that original was really filthy after 2 years.
clin9383
Member
what FPR is the toyota one or any FPR furnace filter is better? also how many replacements does a 20x20x1 filter cut out to replace?
Michigander
New member
meh, the OP shouldn't be so hard on himself. i'd seen this thread and i still paid $20 for a replacement at the parts counter today. check out the "new design"... way wimpier than the original it replaced. (btw: it just looks bigger in the pic b/c it's sitting on the box.) those carbon ones linked earlier or the 3M DIY look like better performing options.
nevertheless, glad i changed it. that original was really filthy after 2 years.
Look into WIX filters, they make filters for heavy construction equipment, farm equipment and light trucks. They also make NAPA premium filters. In my experience, WIX meets or exceeds Toyota factory filters. You can get WIX filters at many high end auto parts stores and through Summit racing online. If you go to their website, they have a filter lookup for our 4Runners.
Overland Warehouse
New member
I used to use the 3M filter cut your own trick for many years on the 4th Gen. Then Bosch started to produce cabin filters for it. Found the quality much better than OEM, as it actually filtered a lot better (especially lots of dust). It was much easier than cutting and messing with the 3M house AC stuff.
Normally with the Bosch filter you can clean it by shaking it out and then using compressed air. I normally clean it at at least 3 times before replacement.
For the 5th Gen it seems to be Bosch P3502 Cabin Air Filter, someone may want to double check the part #. It is around $17 on Amazon.
Easy to maintain and will produce better results and last longer than the OEM unit. Also ends up a lot more economical than having the dealer do it.
--Andries
Normally with the Bosch filter you can clean it by shaking it out and then using compressed air. I normally clean it at at least 3 times before replacement.
For the 5th Gen it seems to be Bosch P3502 Cabin Air Filter, someone may want to double check the part #. It is around $17 on Amazon.
Easy to maintain and will produce better results and last longer than the OEM unit. Also ends up a lot more economical than having the dealer do it.
--Andries
sandcrawler
Senior Member
good tip, Andries. that Bosch filter does look better than OEM. (and way better than the "new" OEM filter.) just popped one in my amazon cart. thanks!
Kennyr44
New member
So your given a job and you up sell whatever. All the little add ons on the work order are the things that slow you down. The light bulbs, the check this little thing and that. This happens once in a while on rainy days yada yada yada. So the cabin filter goes in quick but most often by the time you check it and get the autho and stand in line at the parts counter you lost money. Unless that job was sold at the time of write up it a loser to the mechanic. 99% of people dont want to or cant do it themselves anyway. For sure do everything you can yourself but expect to pay when you go to the dealer. They are there to take your money and are very very good at it like skilled pick pockets. I always said when you drive onto a new car dealer lot every department can and will look for every angle to relieve you of your money at the highest rate they can. Find an independant shop you trust or do it yourself. My dealer charged 10 times markup on little items like bulbs and crush washers etc. A parts and servce department consulting company tought us this practice with the explanation people are stupid and wont notice the little charges under $20. Our owner paid this consulting co. 100k to find ways and teach the angles and tricks to the department managers and writers. In a nut shell they came up with ways to screw every customer and all the mechanics and parts employees to build profit for the owner. Pick pockets hiring pick pocket trainers to up the game.
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Jernik
New member
This thread reminded me... the wife was offered a cabin air filter replacement for a bunch of money several months ago. I told her I'd do it.. filter has been in the garage since. Suppose I ought to do that one of these days. lol
My excuse is, on her car I have to remove some screws, the glovebox, and I think a lower panel to access it. It still won't be hard, but if if was easy to get to (as a part like this SHOULD be, damn engineers! :rockthrow: ) I'd have already done it.
My excuse is, on her car I have to remove some screws, the glovebox, and I think a lower panel to access it. It still won't be hard, but if if was easy to get to (as a part like this SHOULD be, damn engineers! :rockthrow: ) I'd have already done it.
Ducmonsta
New member
It's about turning a profit. Otherwise, there would be no businesses around.
It sounds like your owner went to the "dealership" of consulting firms! 100K?! Just to tell you how to make a profit on your own customers?!
