Tire gurus, help me settle a dispute

[wnelax04sr5]

Wanted to give everyone an update. although i wanted the destination at's and knew theyd be perfect and cost effective for me, my dad was so sure of michelins he said he would buy them for me. im not going to argue with that. so far they are silent, and ultra grippy compared to my old yokohamas. pictures are in my build and as far as i can tell, no difference at all in acceleration, deceleration, mpg. thanks for all the input guys

 

[genec]

So up until my duratracs (GY) I ran michellin LTX MS2's. My dad has been running this tire for years.

He just sliced a sidewall on one at 102K on the tire and it still had tread left. He swapped the rear two tires out for new ones.

With 210k on the truck he's only had two sets of tires.

I had the LTX MS2 too, for 95k.

These are great, durable tires that last forever.

That being said, the GY is grippier and definitely a softer rubber.

I've only run C rated tires on my 4rs.

jumping in and hoping for some help. i see a lot of emotion on this thread. I guess when you drop a bunch of cash on rubber, it gets religious. no problem there. emotion is passion and passion leads to knowledge...IMHO...and there is a lot of knowledge sharing here.

first..i had a 98 SR5. stock tire was GY Wrangler 265/70/16. i had wobble right off of the lot. so i didn't like them for obvious reasons. they could not balance it out. they offered replacements and recommended michelin. i really didn't want michelins but in the end i got 265/75/16 in the LTX/AT. i liked them and they ran for 80-90K. they did not rub but i could not use chains. thankfully i never had to.

From everyone's sharing, I am open to recommendations and would really appreciate your help.

I need your recommendation on a tire that will be run highway, snow, gravel in that order. i drive 3 hrs every weekend to the snow. i have a new '14 SR5 and stock is 265/70/17 Dunlop AT3 Grandtrek. i do not want to lift.

On another thread I learned that I might be better off looking at an MS vs an AT model due to compounds and siping.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

Thank you.

 

[wnelax04sr5]

jumping in and hoping for some help. i see a lot of emotion on this thread. I guess when you drop a bunch of cash on rubber, it gets religious. no problem there. emotion is passion and passion leads to knowledge...IMHO...and there is a lot of knowledge sharing here.

first..i had a 98 SR5. stock tire was GY Wrangler 265/70/16. i had wobble right off of the lot. so i didn't like them for obvious reasons. they could not balance it out. they offered replacements and recommended michelin. i really didn't want michelins but in the end i got 265/75/16 in the LTX/AT. i liked them and they ran for 80-90K. they did not rub but i could not use chains. thankfully i never had to.

From everyone's sharing, I am open to recommendations and would really appreciate your help.

I need your recommendation on a tire that will be run highway, snow, gravel in that order. i drive 3 hrs every weekend to the snow. i have a new '14 SR5 and stock is 265/70/17 Dunlop AT3 Grandtrek. i do not want to lift.

On another thread I learned that I might be better off looking at an MS vs an AT model due to compounds and siping.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

Thank you.

i think something like a goodyear wrangler silent armor would work well for those applications. rated very highly for dry, wet, and snow conditions, but since it is an AT would also do well in the gravel situations. it is an AT but not as aggressive, not much more aggressiveness than any MS tire.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+SilentArmor

edit: keep in mind I'm basing that off of tire racks information in the form of survey results from people that own the tires, and from reviews/testimonials of the tires. i know [MENTION=92501]WXman[/MENTION] has at3's and thinks very highly of them, and i know they would also be a tire to certainly look at

 

[zopperman]

jumping in and hoping for some help. i see a lot of emotion on this thread. I guess when you drop a bunch of cash on rubber, it gets religious. no problem there. emotion is passion and passion leads to knowledge...IMHO...and there is a lot of knowledge sharing here.

first..i had a 98 SR5. stock tire was GY Wrangler 265/70/16. i had wobble right off of the lot. so i didn't like them for obvious reasons. they could not balance it out. they offered replacements and recommended michelin. i really didn't want michelins but in the end i got 265/75/16 in the LTX/AT. i liked them and they ran for 80-90K. they did not rub but i could not use chains. thankfully i never had to.

From everyone's sharing, I am open to recommendations and would really appreciate your help.

I need your recommendation on a tire that will be run highway, snow, gravel in that order. i drive 3 hrs every weekend to the snow. i have a new '14 SR5 and stock is 265/70/17 Dunlop AT3 Grandtrek. i do not want to lift.

On another thread I learned that I might be better off looking at an MS vs an AT model due to compounds and siping.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

Thank you.

i think something like a goodyear wrangler silent armor would work well for those applications. rated very highly for dry, wet, and snow conditions, but since it is an AT would also do well in the gravel situations. it is an AT but not as aggressive, not much more aggressiveness than any MS tire.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Wrangler+SilentArmor

edit: keep in mind I'm basing that off of tire racks information in the form of survey results from people that own the tires, and from reviews/testimonials of the tires. i know [MENTION=92501]WXman[/MENTION] has at3's and thinks very highly of them, and i know they would also be a tire to certainly look at

The only tires I can speak to personally are the duratracs and a long line of michellins with the duratracs being my first AT. I can definitely second the above post that there are many positive reviews for both of those tires. ]

if you liked the LTX AT why not run it again? even my LTX MS2's were fantastic in the snow.

 

[Sungod]

jumping in and hoping for some help. i see a lot of emotion on this thread. I guess when you drop a bunch of cash on rubber, it gets religious. no problem there. emotion is passion and passion leads to knowledge...IMHO...and there is a lot of knowledge sharing here.

first..i had a 98 SR5. stock tire was GY Wrangler 265/70/16. i had wobble right off of the lot. so i didn't like them for obvious reasons. they could not balance it out. they offered replacements and recommended michelin. i really didn't want michelins but in the end i got 265/75/16 in the LTX/AT. i liked them and they ran for 80-90K. they did not rub but i could not use chains. thankfully i never had to.

From everyone's sharing, I am open to recommendations and would really appreciate your help.

I need your recommendation on a tire that will be run highway, snow, gravel in that order. i drive 3 hrs every weekend to the snow. i have a new '14 SR5 and stock is 265/70/17 Dunlop AT3 Grandtrek. i do not want to lift.

On another thread I learned that I might be better off looking at an MS vs an AT model due to compounds and siping.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

Thank you.

The problem with your scenario is that you have to very different conditions that you would need one tire to perform in. As you know a tire that is good on those long drives won't be that great in snow. An A/T tire would probably be the best choice. For your situation, I would seriously consider a M/S and then chains for snow. That is a lot of driving to put on A/T tires and expect them to perform in the snow especially after a year or so as they wear they will be less effective in bad conditions.

 

[genec]

The problem with your scenario is that you have to very different conditions that you would need one tire to perform in. As you know a tire that is good on those long drives won't be that great in snow. An A/T tire would probably be the best choice. For your situation, I would seriously consider a M/S and then chains for snow. That is a lot of driving to put on A/T tires and expect them to perform in the snow especially after a year or so as they wear they will be less effective in bad conditions.

I agree they would be less effective as they wear, but i've run my LTX/AT's (not the AT2) for 80K+ miles. i think into the 90's but that sounds like a lot so i must be mistaken. and i agree with you about my scenario too. it's a tough "one tire" situation.

there is a lot of good info on the AT Tires thread i'm trying to digest as well. The Cooper AT3's are rated highest by CR with Michelin AT2's second. CR classifies the MS2 as "all season". that worries me. it says to me that they are on the "lighter" side. Another thing is, i don't like chains. I mean, I like them when i need them, but i don't like needing them if i can avoid it. I had a place up in the hills years back where i had to chain up a lot. it's good to have them, but i'd rather have traction and stay in bounds and only use chains when really needed. btw, i am assuming we are talking "real chains".

well i feel like i'm getting closer. thanks to you guys... keep the comments coming. i haven't decided yet!

 

[Sungod]

I agree they would be less effective as they wear, but i've run my LTX/AT's (not the AT2) for 80K+ miles. i think into the 90's but that sounds like a lot so i must be mistaken. and i agree with you about my scenario too. it's a tough "one tire" situation.

there is a lot of good info on the AT Tires thread i'm trying to digest as well. The Cooper AT3's are rated highest by CR with Michelin AT2's second. CR classifies the MS2 as "all season". that worries me. it says to me that they are on the "lighter" side. Another thing is, i don't like chains. I mean, I like them when i need them, but i don't like needing them if i can avoid it. I had a place up in the hills years back where i had to chain up a lot. it's good to have them, but i'd rather have traction and stay in bounds and only use chains when really needed. btw, i am assuming we are talking "real chains".

well i feel like i'm getting closer. thanks to you guys... keep the comments coming. i haven't decided yet!

For me the decision would be how long I planned to keep the vehicle. The Michelins are going to last much longer and give you a better ride over the life of the tire. The Coopers are going to be cheaper. You will keep an extra $200 in your pocket with them. If you are not going to see the benefit of the Michelins then there really is no reason to spend more.

Don't be put off by the all season rating. That just means that they have the mud and snow rating. A tire doesn't have to have an aggressive tread pattern to be good in snow, and tires that are good in snow are not necessarily good on ice. The larger tread block with large open spaces are great in mud and snow because they are self cleaning. They tend to have less surface area that makes them harder to bite on ice.

My advice is to buy tires that meet your primary driving conditions, but can handle your occasional need. I don't think you will go wrong with an A/T tire.

 

[genec]

I finally decided to go with the Cooper Discoverer AT3's. Choices were standard T, 6ply (C1) or 10ply (E). I went with the standard. I'll post once they are on and i have driven them for a while. Thanks to all for your help.

 

[ebg18t]

I finally decided to go with the Cooper Discoverer AT3's. Choices were standard T, 6ply (C1) or 10ply (E). I went with the standard. I'll post once they are on and i have driven them for a while. Thanks to all for your help.

I would have opted with the 'c' model vs the standard p rated.

 

[genec]

I would have opted with the 'c' model vs the standard p rated.

"why"? maybe i'll change the order. thanks.

btw, the price difference is $50/tire. buying 5 makes that a $250 delta.

 

[Sungod]

"why"? maybe i'll change the order. thanks.

btw, the price difference is $50/tire. buying 5 makes that a $250 delta.

Are you going off road or doing a lot of towing? Unless you need it, I wouldn't spend the extra money on it. The standard load tires will do just fine. Plus they weigh less so you will save a few cents in gas over the life of the tires.

 

[ebg18t]

"why"? maybe i'll change the order. thanks.

btw, the price difference is $50/tire. buying 5 makes that a $250 delta.

It's not worth the extra $250 in this case.

 

[genec]

Are you going off road or doing a lot of towing? Unless you need it, I wouldn't spend the extra money on it. The standard load tires will do just fine. Plus they weigh less so you will save a few cents in gas over the life of the tires.

I'll only be doing occasional off road or towing. thanks again.

 

[genec]

It's not worth the extra $250 in this case.

yeah.. that's a big chunk of change. thanks.

 

[WXman]

Keep in mind that "P" rated tires often have more load capacity than LT "C" rated ones. I originally wanted the "C" rated Coopers for the deeper tread, but I ended up buying the "P" rating because of the enormous price difference and the 55,000 mile warranty.

 

[genec]

Keep in mind that "P" rated tires often have more load capacity than LT "C" rated ones. I originally wanted the "C" rated Coopers for the deeper tread, but I ended up buying the "P" rating because of the enormous price difference and the 55,000 mile warranty.

ok. now i'm confused. the tread pattern is the same. you are saying the C has a deeper tread? both C and P have the same 55K mile warranty from what i can see. the C is 6 ply. the E is 10 ply. i'm not sure what ply the P is. reading further up the thread, the ply does not seem to imply a load rating anymore but i thought the C depicts a higher load capacity rating. agreed...huge dollar difference. i can do something fun with $250. I'm anxious to see how these compare to the Michelin AT's i used to have on my older 3g4r. they were good tires and lasted a long long time. the new AT2 tread is different and the P's cost more than the Cooper AT3 C's.

 

[ebg18t]

ok. now i'm confused. the tread pattern is the same. you are saying the C has a deeper tread? both C and P have the same 55K mile warranty from what i can see. the C is 6 ply. the E is 10 ply. i'm not sure what ply the P is. reading further up the thread, the ply does not seem to imply a load rating anymore but i thought the C depicts a higher load capacity rating. agreed...huge dollar difference. i can do something fun with $250. I'm anxious to see how these compare to the Michelin AT's i used to have on my older 3g4r. they were good tires and lasted a long long time. the new AT2 tread is different and the P's cost more than the Cooper AT3 C's.

just stick to the P's.

With C's you need to use higher pressure to get the similar load capacity. Yes they have more plies, which in general is more durable in this situation it is not worth the extra $250.

 

[WXman]

ok. now i'm confused. the tread pattern is the same. you are saying the C has a deeper tread? both C and P have the same 55K mile warranty from what i can see. the C is 6 ply. the E is 10 ply. i'm not sure what ply the P is. reading further up the thread, the ply does not seem to imply a load rating anymore but i thought the C depicts a higher load capacity rating. agreed...huge dollar difference. i can do something fun with $250. I'm anxious to see how these compare to the Michelin AT's i used to have on my older 3g4r. they were good tires and lasted a long long time. the new AT2 tread is different and the P's cost more than the Cooper AT3 C's.

Well as you know, the "ply rating" is just figurative now days. Tires do not use ply ratings anymore. A LT E tire does not have 10 plies now. A LT C tire does not have 6 plies now. It's all figurative.

The "P" rated tire has shallow tread, usually 12/32 to 14/32 when new because it is designed for "passenger vehicles" and the goal is better fuel economy and better ride quality and handling.

The "LT C" rated tire has deeper tread, usually 16/32 to 18/32 when new because it's designed for "light trucks" and the goal is better traction in varying terrains. This tire is for use on 1/2 ton trucks. (1500 pickups, Jeeps, SUVs, 4Runners, etc.)

The "LT E" rated tire is the same as the C tire, but it's got thicker layers of material to handle higher pressures and therefore larger loads. It's for 1-ton pickups and SUVs. I don't recommend them for light duty 4x4s, but some guys run them and love them and that is fine. The extra weight will suck more gas, however.

I just wanted to clear up the myth that LT C tires are "more rugged" than P tires. Truth is, if you check the sidewalls you'll see that P tires usually have more load capacity and can handle more air pressure as well....and they are always a LOT less expensive to purchase.

 

[Sungod]

Well as you know, the "ply rating" is just figurative now days. Tires do not use ply ratings anymore. A LT E tire does not have 10 plies now. A LT C tire does not have 6 plies now. It's all figurative.

The "LT E" rated tire is the same as the C tire, but it's got thicker layers of material to handle higher pressures and therefore larger loads. It's for 1-ton pickups and SUVs. I don't recommend them for light duty 4x4s, but some guys run them and love them and that is fine. The extra weight will suck more gas, however.

I just wanted to clear up the myth that LT C tires are "more rugged" than P tires. Truth is, if you check the sidewalls you'll see that P tires usually have more load capacity and can handle more air pressure as well....and they are always a LOT less expensive to purchase.

Just curious because I have heard that statement before, but what tire is that true for? Every tire I have seen that was a C load range had a total of 6 plies. They stamp the construction on the sidewall so it is pretty easy to do the math.

As for durability, I agree that rubber doesn't provide much resistance to punctures, but that extra rubber you get from a C over a standard load tire could be the difference between cosmetic damage vs a hole that will lose air.


I would also like to know what tires a P rated tire has a higher load capacity than a C load range. That doesn't really make sense because p rated tires except "extra load" tires have a 35 PSI max vs a C which has a 50 PSI max. In the same size tire a C would have to have a higher load capacity because of the extra air. Air is what give the capacity, tires just hold it in.