Towing experiences with your 5th Generation

[G8RB8_12SR5]

Nice!

Thinking about doing the Firestone bags on my SR5. Did you install them yourself? If so, were you able to fit the bags through the coils with the springs in place, or did you have to disassemble the suspension a little?

I went with Air Lift since I got a good deal on a used set for $50, only difference is one instruction says install the valve facing down and the other facing up. I had the luxury of a vehicle lift and all the right tools and disassembled the rear to install them but if you jack up each side individually and smush the bags flat and put the caps on them so they can't reinflate you should be able to slide them into the springs without issue. It's how most people installed them. After that it's a couple of clamps and zip ties for the airlines and you're done. [MENTION=65614]Antman[/MENTION] has a write up in his build thread on it and I located my inflation valves in the exact same spot, very convenient. I just pump mine up with a bike pump takes maybe 5 pumps, so if you're holding off on onboard air you'll be ok.

 

[NPRDan]

I'm glad I'm not the only one towing a TT with a 4Runner!

I've been towing my 2014 Keystone Passport Express 252BH (4200lbs dry) on the back of my 2011 4Runner 2WD SR5 all over FLA for the past couple of months with a Blue Ox and a P3 break controller. It does GREAT! Wind, hard rain, horrible Tampa and Orlando traffic, hills (for FLA anyhow), 6" of water… doesn't seem to matter. I did have to adjust the weight inside the trailer (after I put the 2nd battery on) a time or two so that my tongue isn't over loaded but it seems like pushing heavy stuff (like our clothes) to the far back until we get where we're going does the trick. I mostly leave it on cruise control about 70 or 72 MPH and it stays in 5th with the eco light on as long as it's flat. I've learned to run the throttle myself if there's hills because I can "see" them coming where the cruise can only "sense" the speed loss and by then it's too late and it wants to jump to 3rd to make up the lost speed. 70 - 75 MPH seems a little "fast" compared to the 26' class C on the Ford E350 frame I used to run (at 60MPH MAX) but I've decide that I like running fast enough so that I'm not getting "pushed" when the semi trucks pass. They still pass but the speed difference when I'm running 70 is smaller so their effect on me seems minimal in comparison to when I'm going slower. All in all so far I LOVE my 4Runner and I feel like it's much more capable on the road than my e350 was when towing a car behind it.

BTW, if any of you are having bad luck with keeping your battery charged while the trailer is in storage I've found pulling out the fuse for the LP / propane detector does the trick (my old camper had a switch to turn it off and I'm thinking of adding that). I added a 5W solar panel to the A in front of the propane tank and it's parked facing south… my battery is staying at 13V with no problems. With the LP / Propane detector plugged in the solar panel can't keep up with the load and the battery dies. You just have to remember to plug the fuse back in before you use the trailer.

 

[Jeremy556]

...hills (for FLA anyhow)...

Nope, sorry, there are no hills in Florida. There is only completely flat, and not-quite completely flat. There is more vertical change in my driveway than there is in Florida.

I lived in Tampa for about 10 years.

 

[Biggcrisp]

Starting to plan our 2014 camp season.

 

[JeremyB]

I've been towing my 2014 Keystone Passport Express 252BH (4200lbs dry) on the back of my 2011 4Runner 2WD SR5 all over FLA

Berry nice. Have you weighed the setup yet? (Tongue/Trailer gross) Did you setup the WDH to a certain FALR? Have a sway on the WDH?

Starting to plan our 2014 camp season.

That things looks huge! 262RLS?

Same questions as I asked NRPDan.

 

[Biggcrisp]

That things looks huge! 262RLS?


Yes - 2012 262RLS >4800 lbs. new (we travel without water) pulled with a 2012 SR5.

Living in the Midwest we have hauled it over some narrow winding roads.

I went out to Mesa, AZ last summer, spent a few days traveling around the state and came to the conclusion that there is no way I would have my setup in that environment.

 

[N2GLOCK]

Took this pic in 2012 literally 1 week after getting my SR5 My 19' jet boat is pretty light, but once the tanks are full of gas and all our gear is inside both the boat and truck, the extra weight is noticeable. I've towed the boat about 50 times since then (8 times thru the Mojave desert in the summer) and my T4R has never let me down. I've also towed my 1961 Morris Minor truck, 1986 Corvette, 1970 el camino and a 1966 Mustang. Hopefully pretty soon I'll be bringing home a Delorean from Reno using my 4Runner.

 

[Rushca01]

As a potential future owner of a 4runner why does it have a low tow capidty compared to the Jeep GC which I believe to be a less capable vehicle?

 

[Bimmer-Bob]

Took this pic in 2012 literally 1 week after getting my SR5 My 19' jet boat is pretty light, but once the tanks are full of gas and all our gear is inside both the boat and truck, the extra weight is noticeable. I've towed the boat about 50 times since then (8 times thru the Mojave desert in the summer) and my T4R has never let me down. I've also towed my 1961 Morris Minor truck, 1986 Corvette, 1970 el camino and a 1966 Mustang. Hopefully pretty soon I'll be bringing home a Delorean from Reno using my 4Runner.

Can you be a little more specific about your experiences with towing other vehicles? Trailer used, curb weight of trailer & cars, distance traveled, etc.? I'm going to be towing a 3100# car in a few months, and eager to hear from others that have towed similar loads. Thanks.

 

[N2GLOCK]

Can you be a little more specific about your experiences with towing other vehicles? Trailer used, curb weight of trailer & cars, distance traveled, etc.? I'm going to be towing a 3100# car in a few months, and eager to hear from others that have towed similar loads. Thanks.

I don't have specifics...sorry. At that weight you should be good. You'll feel it as it's pretty obvious. I would recommend at least 40 psi in the rear tires. My cars are all Detroit iron and I don't know the weight. The Morris truck is even lighter than my boat I think. I use a friends hauler trailer that's aluminum but big. Do a search on here. There is a member that has towed several cars and he has pics. I think I saw another member a while back tow a bob cat bull dozer which is way heavy.

 

[JeremyB]

As a potential future owner of a 4runner why does it have a low tow capidty compared to the Jeep GC which I believe to be a less capable vehicle?

If anything, the 4Runner is an inferior tow vehicle to the JGC when you compare the specs of the two.

The JGC has an extra 5" in wheelbase (4.5%) over the 4R. Not sure of the rear axle to ball dimension, but the JGC should have an overall slight edge on the ability of the trailer to slap around the tow vehicle.

JCG has had electronic trailer sway control since 2011. 4R added it in 2014.

The big difference between the two is powertrain.

The 2014 JGC's 3.6L should have a bit less HP available at towing rpm (1500-3500), but the 8-sp transmission will be able to keep the engine in the right gear and the the torque converter locked more often. Outcome - better mpg and less heat into the tranny.

The 5.7L + 8-sp blows the 4R's 4.0L + 5-sp out of the water, hands down. ~40% more power at across the rpm board, 3 more gears and the same or better mpg? Me gusta.


With regards to manufacturer stated tow capacity, you have to realize it is a bit of a shell game unless everyone is using J2807 - the SAE standard for coming up with tow ratings. As of now, Toyota uses J2807, Jeep doesn't.

The 2013 JGC 3.6L was rated to 5000 lbs. The 2014 JGC 3.6L jumped to 6200. Only significant difference I see is the 2014 went from a 5-sp to 8-sp transmission. The JGC 5.7L is rated to 7400 lbs. The 4th Gen 4Runner w/V8 is rated to tow 7300. The Lexus GX is rated to 6500lb, basically a 5th Gen 4Runner with a V8 and 6-sp trans.

 

[Titanpat57]

If anything, the 4Runner is an inferior tow vehicle to the JGC when you compare the specs of the two.

The JGC has an extra 5" in wheelbase (4.5%) over the 4R. Not sure of the rear axle to ball dimension, but the JGC should have an overall slight edge on the ability of the trailer to slap around the tow vehicle.

JCG has had electronic trailer sway control since 2011. 4R added it in 2014.

The big difference between the two is powertrain.

The 2014 JGC's 3.6L should have a bit less HP available at towing rpm (1500-3500), but the 8-sp transmission will be able to keep the engine in the right gear and the the torque converter locked more often. Outcome - better mpg and less heat into the tranny.

The 5.7L + 8-sp blows the 4R's 4.0L + 5-sp out of the water, hands down. ~40% more power at across the rpm board, 3 more gears and the same or better mpg? Me gusta.


With regards to manufacturer stated tow capacity, you have to realize it is a bit of a shell game unless everyone is using J2807 - the SAE standard for coming up with tow ratings. As of now, Toyota uses J2807, Jeep doesn't.

The 2013 JGC 3.6L was rated to 5000 lbs. The 2014 JGC 3.6L jumped to 6200. Only significant difference I see is the 2014 went from a 5-sp to 8-sp transmission. The JGC 5.7L is rated to 7400 lbs. The 4th Gen 4Runner w/V8 is rated to tow 7300. The Lexus GX is rated to 6500lb, basically a 5th Gen 4Runner with a V8 and 6-sp trans.

and bascally the Heep was still looking for the same gear it was in 5th as it was in 8th...

Body on Frame...





remember that children...the website looks like it's written by a bunch of Obamacare cheerleaders...and if that ruffles your feathers, you're always left with Chryslers exceptional track record....and it's ability to make "any number work" mentality...

 

[20034RunnerV84x2]

I towed a 6'x12' U-Haul trailer with a 2011 Limited and loaded it weighed around 4,000 pounds. Towed it from Columbus, Georgia to Atlanta. It was a little iffy as it was so heavy, but I've been spoiled by my V8 4th gen towing the same amount.

 

[NPRDan]

Jeremy556 - I just towed to a wilderness preserve outside Dade City. The elevation sign says it's 250' above sea level. It's not much but I don't see why 500' or 1000' would have been much different… we would just have been at it longer. The 4Runner does better up hill around 60Mph. Pushing 70 means running in the 3rd gear for the duration of the hill so I wouldn't want to try that in the mountains.

JeremyB - I haven't weighed it yet and probably won't since in 3 trips with it so far each one has been dramatically different weight wise. This latest trip was no doubt the heaviest and it was our trip through the "hilliest" part of FLA. Since we were dry camping I had 2 deep cycle marine batteries on the tongue, 2 full propane tanks also on the tongue, a full 30 gallon fresh water tank which is in front of the axles, 2 Honda EU2000i generators full with gas placed behind the axle, Several bundles of firewood, heavy winter clothes, bicycles on a spare tire bike rack and miscellaneous "camping" gear I wouldn't pack for a resort campground.

My hitch is a Blue Ox and so far I've been playing it by "look and feel". About 8 or 9 links into the chain is right so far. I try to keep the truck level to the eye and then I "check" for "bounce" by driving down the road and if need be I adjust weight inside the trailer. Not very scientific but even at 75Mph I've never felt any side to side sway and with the trailer balanced on it's axles the "leaf spring" action of the Blue Ox keeps everything between the truck and trailer feeling like a solid unit, even over railroad tracks, down dirt roads full of holes and on the freeway when that friendly fellow with the semi or bus blows by at 95Mph.

 

[Zeder]

I frequently tow a Coleman Cheyenne TT. I typically experience two different styles of trip every year. The long haul paved "family" trip (read: National Park, 100 ft of gravel if I'm lucky) and the off-road into the middle of nowhere fishing trips with "the boys"(read: forestry trunk roads and un-maintained service roads that lead to un-maintained camp sites.

Here is my experience with my tent trailer.

Trailer is 2990 lbs without water/beer/bikes with a 375 lb tongue weight. 2 x 31 series deep cycle batteries and 2 x 30 lb propane tanks bump up the tongue weight..

When its loaded with food/beer/bicycles tongue weight drops to 330ish and the overall weight goes up to 3200 lbs (TT has a 3500 lbs Dexter axle). The before mentioned additions go behind the trailer axle.

With me and the "family" and all the crap we bring... I am adding about 4000 lbs of load to the drivetrain/brakes (in cab+trailer). I have towed this setup over the Rockies from Edmonton to the west coast and back every year for the last 10 years, 2500km round trip. I have done 7 trips with this setup and my 2012 Trail so far. The T4R does just fine! Fully loaded I have to keep the transmission in 4S on the highway or ScanGauge trans-temp gets dicey. I have no issues going up or down 8% grade roads as long as you don't try to maintain 70 mph! YES, I have been into 2nd gear a few times but hey, enjoy the scenery. I think that only happens for like 5 minutes on my typical west coast trip. Then there are a few times where I have to keep it in 3rd but I can maintain speed, again 5 minutes tops. Just have to buzz the motor, no issues! The brakes in these 5 gen's are pretty stout. You just have to LEAN on them, but they work well! BTW-Camper has electric trailer brakes too.

I have added an Anti Sway brake. Works PERFECT for the camper!!!! NO oscillations on the highway at all! Trailer tracks nice and straight and behaves on radical lane changes like accident/deer/moose avoidance maneuvers. DO THIS MOD!

I also have the Firestone Air Rite airbag system installed. The system definitely will help with leveling the T4R and improving the ride for the occupants but...I have had issues with them...

First set, I got a bad one and it split at the molding seam. (defect) Firestone sent me a replacement, but I had to buy another set of air bags while on that trip to get me home. (Yes, you can change an airbag with the factory jack and a chopping block in the middle of know where. Lubricate well with a beer ).

I have had two individual failures since then. The bags on different sides, split where the bag contacts the spring perch on the axle. Both failures have happen during the winter season where the outside temps dip down to -30 deg C, NOT while towing. I think the vinyl bag gets too hard and breaks when it hits the edge of the spring perch on the axle. Postmortem shows this contact area and break.

So every spring I put go through the dance of replacing a bag and sending back to Firestone under warranty.

After the second bag failed I installed a set of Timbren rubber helper springs. They will keep the T4R level but you will get a VERY bounce ride! I got the "Is it always this bouncy?" question from my wife the first time I tried the Timbren's. I have removed them have stored them in the camper as a "get out of jail card" if a bags fails while I am in the middle of nowhere, as I can install them in about 5 minutes if need be.

Last week I replaced the airbag on the other side from last year, same failure. So I modified the spring perch. I took the two old cracked bags and cut their tops off. Then flipped them over and created a pocket for the installed bags to rest in, instead of just on the perch. A kind of saddle to distribute the contact area a bit. The pockets are held in place with some RTV and are currently holding well. We'll see what happens this year.

I like the air bag system for controlling the ride height, just no too impressed with the reliability. I will try this last attempt and if it does not survive the winter I'm done with the Firestone system!

I few days ago I also purchased a weight distribution hitch and will install it this weekend. I hope that this should keep my comfy ride/height and mitigate the reliance on the Firestone system to keep the T4R level. I will update on the results of the WDH after the first trip in a few weeks.

I hope you take away some valid info from this write-up.

The following picture was taken just before the first test drive and after I did an axle over/under conversion to the TT. I also added 205/75R14 trailer tires as well. This mod gave me 6.5 inches of additional ground clearance on my TT. The Firestone bags have 8 psi in them and everything is level and the test drive went perfect!

 

[Jeremy556]

Jeremy556 - I just towed to a wilderness preserve outside Dade City. The elevation sign says it's 250' above sea level. It's not much but I don't see why 500' or 1000' would have been much different… we would just have been at it longer. The 4Runner does better up hill around 60Mph. Pushing 70 means running in the 3rd gear for the duration of the hill so I wouldn't want to try that in the mountains.

500 or 1K wouldn't be much different, but 10K is a lot different, less air. Much steeper grades here, too. Pulling a little over 5K required 2nd gear to maintain speed on several passes

 

[1engineer]

500 or 1K wouldn't be much different, but 10K is a lot different, less air. Much steeper grades here, too. Pulling a little over 5K required 2nd gear to maintain speed on several passes

I did an altitude and cold air graph so let me see:

Anyway here is the link http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/133786-cold-air-horsepower.html so second graph in 1st post.

 

[hamlet]

For those in the market for a lightweight, easy-to-tow, roomy and uniquely versatile camper, you might want to check out a camper called an "Aliner". What's unique about the Aliner is that it offers many of the best benefits of both a hard-sided camper and a fold down camper.

Like most campers, they come in various sizes and configurations. Ours, the "Classic" is larger enough for two adults and two Labrador retrievers (or children) to comfortably spend extended amounts of time in. You can get these Aliners completely load, including a shower/toilet; or you can can them quite modestly equipped. Our is loaded, except that we have an outside shower (works well for rinsing down the dogs). Loaded down with enough gear to take a cross-country trip, an Aliner will weigh right around 2,000 pounds and have a tongue weight around 180-200 pounds. And because, in their towing configuration they are considerably more aerodynamic that a hard-sided unit, they really lend themselves to smaller and mid-sized towing vehicles like our 4Runners.

I think that most people would agree that the primary benefit of a hard-side camper is that once you pull over and park somewhere, you are essentially, instantly"camping". No need to disconnect a hard-sided camper from the tow vehicle; no worries about leveling a hard-sided camper for a quick overnight's rest. Just pull over and enjoy a convenient night of rest. Well, you can do the same thing with an Aliner because it can be set up or taken down in less than 1 minute. And this is not an exaggeration. So you get the ease of towing associated with a lightweight popup camper (again, perfect for our 4Runners), and the convenience of "instant camping" associated with a hard-sided camper.

My wife and I have been camping for nearly twenty years and to say that we've "been there, done that" comes pretty close to describing the variety of ways that we've camped in that time. From the perspective of an experienced, camper/hunter I can tell you that this Aliner comes pretty close to being a perfect camping unit for today's six cylinder engines.

Just FYI...

Cool, that's what I am currently in the market for, though looking at the Expedition model. Any words of wisdom on things you like / dislike / would change with the Aliner?

 

[twoburgers]

5600 lbs - life beyond the edge...

So..., I regularly tow a 2013 Cobalt 232 that comes in wet and loaded at 4500 and the steel trailer at 1100. I pulled it home through the mountains (eastern IN to central VA) w/o a problem other than 8 MPG. The engine was screaming to keep speed at the mountain passes, but it did it. Since bringing the boat home, I have added air bags at the rear. I keep 30 pounds in each when towing (they are not tied together) and both the 4Runner and trailer are level. I regularly tow in a mix of highway (65 to 70) and back country roads (45 to 55) and the truck does just fine. I should note the trailer has surge disk brakes on both axels.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[boater1217]

I'm going to add to an old thread. I am picking up a Winnebago Micro Minnie Saturday. I am getting sway bars installed and the hookup for the electric brakes. The Micro Minnie's dry weight is 3000 and it has dual axles which should help with any hitch weight problems. I live in Mississippi so mountain climbing is not a problem on this trip but next spring we are planning on a trip out west to to do some trail running so it will be interesting to see how the setup works.

I'll post again after this weekend trip to let everyone know how the setup worked.