Toyota 4Runner Frame Recall Campaign

[Hepar]

I have a '03 4-Runner that still runs as great as it did when I first drove it off the lot. Now the frame is completely rusted/cracked and no one wants to take it in trade. (I do not need a lawn ornament.) I've reached out to the BBB because Toyota Corp USA won't offer anything. I heard Toyota had some sort of programs for the Tacoma but nothing for us? I want to buy another Toyota but not if they cannot stand by their product. There's no reason for this amount of rust when I see plenty of older cars still out on the road. Came onto this site to see if anyone has had any luck.

Did you check the frame when you bought it? Did you do any sort of preventative maintenance during your ownership? Sadly, far too many people get caught up on the exterior of a vehicle without looking into the bones of it. Would you buy a house without an inspection? Or do certain maintenance on it if it was in an area that was prone to certain issues? It's like buying a house on the beach and being surprised when all of the exterior metal is rusting away.

Yes, there are plenty of incidences where the manufacturer sells a product with issues and needs to take responsibility, but also incidences where the buyer needs to take some responsibility too.

I do have sympathy for you if it's something you did not know you needed to look out for or maintain. But consider it a life lesson and to make sure you keep an eye on signs with any further vehicle purchase as well as take preventative steps while you own it.

 

[TheDurk]

Well, as a victim of fatal frame rot, there is a lot of sanctimonious BS being thrown about here. I did not neglect maintenance on my truck, I did wash the salt off periodically, and I did not allow any serious VISIBLE rust to take hold. The rust that killed my frame was stealth and insidious. It rusted out INSIDE the lower rear control arm bracket where the floor of the frame turned to dust because salty liquid accumulated INSIDE the dang frame rail. So except for where the bracket tore loose, the frame was in decent shape, except at the same point on the other side.

Unless people have treated the INSIDE of their frames, which I admit it did not occur to me to do, folks might want to tone down their criticism of others.

 

[Hepar]

So except for where the bracket tore loose

I don't know, but that seems like it would be a pretty good sign of rust issues to me. :behindsofa:

 

[IBallEngineer]

Well, as a victim of fatal frame rot, there is a lot of sanctimonious BS being thrown about here. I did not neglect maintenance on my truck, I did wash the salt off periodically, and I did not allow any serious VISIBLE rust to take hold. The rust that killed my frame was stealth and insidious. It rusted out INSIDE the lower rear control arm bracket where the floor of the frame turned to dust because salty liquid accumulated INSIDE the dang frame rail. So except for where the bracket tore loose, the frame was in decent shape, except at the same point on the other side.

Unless people have treated the INSIDE of their frames, which I admit it did not occur to me to do, folks might want to tone down their criticism of others.

I admit I can be a little harsh:whipping2, but I mainly can't respect the idea that some hold Toyota responsible(I know you didn't), It would be different if it was rusted through in 2 years, like a Pinto In a 1978 Michigan winter.

The other thing is, as you aptly proved, it CAN be remedied. One of my friends just had to spend $1900 for a valve body on his 10 year old MBZ, then a week later $1200 for an airbag shock absorber. $3100 on a $6000 car in two weeks. I think you could get a good used frame installed for less than that!

I applaud the questions, just not blanket ignorant statements like "Toyota won't stand behind their products". They do, just not when you didn't set the e-brake on a hill. :tea:

 

[catrains]

the rust belt is just that . not cali or arizona .. in the north east vehicles rust . IMO dodge trucks are the worst.


frame rust I had on my 2000 GM truck was a cross member . I always washed and inspected every year and also applied a rust proofing fiber re-enforced black coating.. well GM used a wax type material and the rust was hidden under it.. so it was a 12 inch long hole [10yrs old] .. lucky for me $400 for the body /frame shop they cut it out and fabricated a new cross member ..

now with my 2016 T4R and with all this frame rust info in the cold north east I drop all the covers and if I see any rust it is covered , fixed .

I do like the Toyota better because it has paint on the frame metal not a wax like GM..

I do know a GM owner had to have is truck frame replaced only 3 yrs old in Boston .. so it does happen you have to inspect ..do the work ..

 

[TheDurk]

I don't know, but that seems like it would be a pretty good sign of rust issues to me. :behindsofa:

You completely missed the point.

Yeah, it's a sign if you had x-ray vision. It looked fine from the outside. How often do you unbolt your control arms and look directly up at the bottom of the frame rail INSIDE the bracket?

 

[TheDurk]

I admit I can be a little harsh:whipping2, but I mainly can't respect the idea that some hold Toyota responsible(I know you didn't), It would be different if it was rusted through in 2 years, like a Pinto In a 1978 Michigan winter.

The other thing is, as you aptly proved, it CAN be remedied. One of my friends just had to spend $1900 for a valve body on his 10 year old MBZ, then a week later $1200 for an airbag shock absorber. $3100 on a $6000 car in two weeks. I think you could get a good used frame installed for less than that!

I applaud the questions, just not blanket ignorant statements like "Toyota won't stand behind their products". They do, just not when you didn't set the e-brake on a hill. :tea:

I was not responding to those comments. To some degree, we need to be grateful that these rigs are sufficiently robust that rust on 18-year old frames that see salt is what kills them. How many Cherokee and Exploder owners wish their rigs had lasted long enough to die from frame rot? If Toyota built junk, we would not even know about the issue because they would have died from something else.

As you said, you can't really hold Toyota responsible. If I had it to do over, I would have been more aggressive about frame treatments, drilling holes to assure drainage, and applying coatings inside the frame. But, as it was, I had to man up and fix it. I didn't complain about Toyota once.

I just take issue with the chorus of "blame the victim" from people outside the high-use salt belt. That crap ain't natural. 20 years of it will kill almost anything.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I was not responding to those comments. To some degree, we need to be grateful that these rigs are sufficiently robust that rust on 18-year old frames that see salt is what kills them. How many Cherokee and Exploder owners wish their rigs had lasted long enough to die from frame rot? If Toyota built junk, we would not even know about the issue because they would have died from something else.



As you said, you can't really hold Toyota responsible. If I had it to do over, I would have been more aggressive about frame treatments, drilling holes to assure drainage, and applying coatings inside the frame. But, as it was, I had to man up and fix it. I didn't complain about Toyota once.



I just take issue with the chorus of "blame the victim" from people outside the high-use salt belt. That crap ain't natural. 20 years of it will kill almost anything.

My Cummins will die the Rust death long before my powertrain fails. It sucks.

My 96 4Runner had rusted at the trans crossmember on the drivers side. It too rusted from the inside out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hepar]

You completely missed the point.

I understood your point. I was just being a bit sarcastic. Which doesn't come across very well over the internets.

 

[ZionXIX]

I wonder what it would cost to hot dip galvanize a frame.

 

[Mark_BC]

Finally this forum is livening up!!! What other contentious issues should we talk about?

My solution now is to not drive the thing when there's salt on the road. But I think there's salt under the rust bubbles so it goes on living long after you drive in the salt. I have a Nissan Leaf I drive around town and that thing doesn't seem to rust too bad. But I have strayed any rust I do see with rust inhibitor.

At some point I may want to drive the T4R in winter to go skiing or something. If I do that I will immediately drench the underside including inside the frame with the garden hose and drive it down the freeway in heavy rain to wash off all hints of rsalt. That works here in the PNW where it alternates between freezing and raining. In the NE maybe you don't get the luxury of rain in winter.

 

[Rayh78]

I admit I can be a little harsh:whipping2, but I mainly can't respect the idea that some hold Toyota responsible(I know you didn't), It would be different if it was rusted through in 2 years, like a Pinto In a 1978 Michigan winter.

The other thing is, as you aptly proved, it CAN be remedied. One of my friends just had to spend $1900 for a valve body on his 10 year old MBZ, then a week later $1200 for an airbag shock absorber. $3100 on a $6000 car in two weeks. I think you could get a good used frame installed for less than that!

I applaud the questions, just not blanket ignorant statements like "Toyota won't stand behind their products". They do, just not when you didn't set the e-brake on a hill. :tea:

You should hold Toyota responsible. Chances are the frames could have been treated like the Tundras.
Toyota admitted there was a problem with their frame coatings. Problem with a sub contractor.
They did not replace thousands of rusted frames for no reason. This had to cost them a bundle.
Goggle and look at all the pics.
And now that the claim period has run out people are stuck. Cost more to replace the frame than the truck is worth. I dont remember but think it was about 12K toyota was paying the dealers to replace frames.
Now people have a truck that could otherwise still last for years. But ends up in the junk yard because of the inferior frames that they admitted to.

 

[IBallEngineer]

You should hold Toyota responsible. Chances are the frames could have been treated like the Tundras.
Toyota admitted there was a problem with their frame coatings. Problem with a sub contractor.
They did not replace thousands of rusted frames for no reason. This had to cost them a bundle.
Goggle and look at all the pics.
And now that the claim period has run out people are stuck. Cost more to replace the frame than the truck is worth. I dont remember but think it was about 12K toyota was paying the dealers to replace frames.
Now people have a truck that could otherwise still last for years. But ends up in the junk yard because of the inferior frames that they admitted to.

You need to do some research, they never admitted to having inferior frames on 3rd gen 4runners. The frames that rusted were built by Dana, not Toyota, and they were on Tacoma's, not 4runners. So no, I nor anyone else should hold Toyota responsible for the frame on a 15 year old 4runner. layball:

 

[Scramble]

You should hold Toyota responsible. Chances are the frames could have been treated like the Tundras.
Toyota admitted there was a problem with their frame coatings. Problem with a sub contractor.
They did not replace thousands of rusted frames for no reason. This had to cost them a bundle.
Goggle and look at all the pics.
And now that the claim period has run out people are stuck. Cost more to replace the frame than the truck is worth. I dont remember but think it was about 12K toyota was paying the dealers to replace frames.
Now people have a truck that could otherwise still last for years. But ends up in the junk yard because of the inferior frames that they admitted to.

It's obvious you didn't read the whole thread. You do know that 4runners are made in Japan & the frame rust issues are from Dana Corp in Mexico right?

 

[marcus clarkus]

I'm surprised there are so many people trying to hold Toyota accountable, yet no one is pointing the finger at their local governments for salting the **** out of the roads.

Salt destroys cars and infrastructure, it's terrible for the environment (google it), and in my experience it gives drivers a false sense of confidence when the conditions are bad. Don't you think there could be other, better solutions to the problem of slippery roads?

Let me preface this next statement by saying I'm not trying to make this political... I just want to explain a different approach to the same problem.

I lived in Norway for a year and was blown away that they rarely plowed streets or sidewalks, and only used a little gravel - no salt. How did they get away with this? Well for one, everyone had snow tires (because they knew the roads would be snowy and would not be salted) and many of them were studded. I was even told that your insurance would not cover you if you got in an accident between Nov-April and had summer tires on your car. Another thing is that they had mandatory winter driving classes for all new drivers. The driving test was notoriously difficult and it was common for people to fail 2 or 3 times before passing. The end result is a bunch of cars with proper snow tires and a bunch of drivers that understand how to control a car in the snow.

I'm not saying this is the system we need to adopt. Also, I think there are some scenarios where salt should still be used. All I'm saying people should point fingers at the guys dumping the salt, not just the guys making steel frames that rust when coated in salt...

 

[Mark_BC]

I'm surprised there are so many people trying to hold Toyota accountable, yet no one is pointing the finger at their local governments for salting the **** out of the roads.

Salt destroys cars and infrastructure, it's terrible for the environment (google it), and in my experience it gives drivers a false sense of confidence when the conditions are bad. Don't you think there could be other, better solutions to the problem of slippery roads?

Let me preface this next statement by saying I'm not trying to make this political... I just want to explain a different approach to the same problem.

I lived in Norway for a year and was blown away that they rarely plowed streets or sidewalks, and only used a little gravel - no salt. How did they get away with this? Well for one, everyone had snow tires (because they knew the roads would be snowy and would not be salted) and many of them were studded. I was even told that your insurance would not cover you if you got in an accident between Nov-April and had summer tires on your car. Another thing is that they had mandatory winter driving classes for all new drivers. The driving test was notoriously difficult and it was common for people to fail 2 or 3 times before passing. The end result is a bunch of cars with proper snow tires and a bunch of drivers that understand how to control a car in the snow.

I'm not saying this is the system we need to adopt. Also, I think there are some scenarios where salt should still be used. All I'm saying people should point fingers at the guys dumping the salt, not just the guys making steel frames that rust when coated in salt...

I have the same thoughts. When I lived in "northern" Canada (meaning not within 50 km of the US border) they wouldn't plow the streets in winter, just throw sand on them and you'd drive on a layer of ice.

But here in Vancouver we get rain / snow / black ice so they need to do something else, black ice is a killer.

 

[tvpierce]

I wonder what it would cost to hot dip galvanize a frame.

$600

You can buy a Jeep CJ frame here for $2000.

Scroll halfway down the page to the "Frame Accessories" section. Hot dip galvanizing, inside & out is an additional $600.

It's a shame Toyota doesn't do it from the factory.

 

[OldRigNewParts]

I've found complete OEM frame assemblies online from $4K-$8K. For me this falls under the same issue if I were to blow a motor or transmission or need a new paint job. I've invested so much time, money, and care into my 4Runner so far, I'd be willing to pay for a new frame vs. buy something else or get wrapped up in a car payment.

 

[dogtail]

I've found complete OEM frame assemblies online from $4K-$8K. For me this falls under the same issue if I were to blow a motor or transmission or need a new paint job. I've invested so much time, money, and care into my 4Runner so far, I'd be willing to pay for a new frame vs. buy something else or get wrapped up in a car payment.

I drive a lot of miles on New England roads, my rig is salty all winter long, I don't even wash it, yet my 99 chassis doesn't have rust. Simple ways completely avoid rust, I've posted on it before.

 

[OldRigNewParts]

I drive a lot of miles on New England roads, my rig is salty all winter long, I don't even wash it, yet my 99 chassis doesn't have rust. Simple ways completely avoid rust, I've posted on it before.

A quick wash once a week is enough sometimes. I bought mine rust free in Florida and drove it up to MA about 4 years ago. I had it undercoated before driving it up and usually spray the underside down with fluid film at the beginning of winter and spray everything in the engine bay and all suspension parts down with Boeshield T-9. So far so good, only minimal surface rust on the trailer hitch and rear shock mounts.