Toyota Ponders T4R/FJC Fate

[Kmvreter]

The toyota.jp website dropped the Hilux Surf link at the end of the 2009 model last fall. They haven't put up a link for the '10 MY so does that mean they've discontinued the Surf or delayed the release? Is this an indication of the future by dropping the platform elsewhere first? Can anyone confirm if there actually is a '10 Surf?

 

[JohnsD90]

The toyota.jp website dropped the Hilux Surf link at the end of the 2009 model last fall. They haven't put up a link for the '10 MY so does that mean they've discontinued the Surf or delayed the release? Is this an indication of the future by dropping the platform elsewhere first? Can anyone confirm if there actually is a '10 Surf?

It was dropped.

 

[JohnsD90]

True, but my main point is that Ford is dropping their mid-size body-on-frame SUV and replacing it with a crossover. If Toyota is looking to see what happens in the rest of the SUV market, this isn't a good sign.

Well there will be 2 brands that you should be able trust in the offroad market and that will be Jeep and Land Rover, and that could potentially keep toyota making a good offroader.

 

[steezemcqueen]

Well there will be 2 brands that you should be able trust in the offroad market and that will be Jeep and Land Rover, and that could potentially keep toyota making a good offroader.

well the only real off road vehicle jeep has now is the wrangler. pretty much everything else is a glorified crossover. same goes for land rover

 

[ForeRunnerSi]

Exactly, toyota has over flowed the SUV market. I think that either the rav or the highlander needs to go and the 4runner needs to get smaller it seems to have become bloated in 4th and 5th gens. Also I think the FJ would do better if it had more of a focused appeal like the jeep wrangler. One of the big selling points of the wrangler is that you can take the top down and it looks the part of being rugged.

One of the problems may be a lack of distinction in the Toyota SUV line, and the latest generation is not helping. The 4Runner is getting lost among the 6 choices. The FJ is very distinctive, but it has a niche market. Want just a little more? Why not go with the Sequoia or Land Cruiser? Want just a little less? There's the Highlander and RAV4. What is the message for the 4Runner? What is truly distinctive about it to the average consumer?

Too many choices is a big problem. Over the past few years, research has shown that too many choices causes decision making paralysis in people. 20 choices of peanut butter? Never mind...I'll go with Nutella. For autos, Honda is a great example. Want a passenger car? 3 real choices - Accord, Civic or Fit (and that is a recent addition). Each very distinctive (though the newer Civics are about the same as older Accords) with limited packages/options. Want more luxury? Go to the Acura dealer. And there you really only have 3 car choices...

For those who know and love 4Runners (and off-roading), the 4Runner is just right...but most buyers don't fall into this category. I'm currently looking for a great 3rd Gen T4R and see that they are valued for their distinctive features (great road car and great off-road truck in one package). I just sold my 07 SR5 because I did not perceive that it was as fitting for my wants as a 99 Highlander Package or 02 Sport Edition.

My $0.02 - Toyota should drop the Highlander and Sequoia and come up with a distinctive message for the 4Runner.

 

[JohnsD90]

well the only real off road vehicle jeep has now is the wrangler. pretty much everything else is a glorified crossover. same goes for land rover

You are right....In this country.

 

[jspagna1]

Toyota ruined the Sequoia and made it way to big. The Land Cruiser is nice but way too expensive. They should drop the Sequoia and the FJ.
They should make the price of the Land Cruiser a little more reasonable.
This will allow people ample choices:
Land Cruiser
4Runner
Highlander
Rav4
That leaves them with a wide variety for people to choose from at different price points.

 

[steezemcqueen]

You are right....In this country.

...aren't we talking about the US market?

 

[JohnsD90]

...aren't we talking about the US market?

Good point.

 

[Uneek]

Toyota ruined the Sequoia and made it way to big. The Land Cruiser is nice but way too expensive. They should drop the Sequoia and the FJ.
They should make the price of the Land Cruiser a little more reasonable.
This will allow people ample choices:
Land Cruiser
4Runner
Highlander
Rav4
That leaves them with a wide variety for people to choose from at different price points.

For the US market only.

My take would be drop the Land Cruiser, buyers can step up to the Lexus LX. If I was forking out $70k for a TLC, I'm going all the way and getting the LX.

Keep the Sequoia for folks who wants a Toyota SUV monstrosity.

Drop the FJ, the Trail Edition 4Runner takes care of that.

Drop the Highlander, no need for a wussified fake SUV, 7-passenger people hauler, there's the Sienna for that. The RAV4 can also haul 7 uncomfortably like the Highlander.

Don't care about the RAV4, it's a cute-ute for the ladies. Or Toyota can ditch it, I won't miss it.

So Toyota would be left with: Sequoia, 4Runner and RAV4, not to mention the Venza. Venza's got enough ground clearance to be a SUV.

 

[charlier180]

For the US market only.

My take would be drop the Land Cruiser, buyers can step up to the Lexus LX. If I was forking out $70k for a TLC, I'm going all the way and getting the LX.

Keep the Sequoia for folks who wants a Toyota SUV monstrosity.

Drop the FJ, the Trail Edition 4Runner takes care of that.

Drop the Highlander, no need for a wussified fake SUV, 7-passenger people hauler, there's the Sienna for that. The RAV4 can also haul 7 uncomfortably like the Highlander.

Don't care about the RAV4, it's a cute-ute for the ladies. Or Toyota can ditch it, I won't miss it.

So Toyota would be left with: Sequoia, 4Runner and RAV4, not to mention the Venza. Venza's got enough ground clearance to be a SUV.

No question Toyota needs to consolidate their SUV line. Over the years it has gotten crowded. I agree with some of your changes. Unfortunately, Toyota will look at sales and profit numbers and keep some models you say to ditch and get rid of others. One can only hope that Toyota comes to their senses and realizes that the 4Runner offers more UTILITY (you know the "U" in SUV)that some other models they sell at a BETTER price than those models.

I agree that the Sequoia is too BIG and COSTLY for the same UTILITY that the 4Runner offers. Bottom line is that the 4Runner offers more VALUE for that UTILITY.

 

[Uneek]

No question Toyota needs to consolidate their SUV line. Over the years it has gotten crowded. I agree with some of your changes. Unfortunately, Toyota will look at sales and profit numbers and keep some models you say to ditch and get rid of others. One can only hope that Toyota comes to their senses and realizes that the 4Runner offers more UTILITY (you know the "U" in SUV)that some other models they sell at a BETTER price than those models.

I agree that the Sequoia is too BIG and COSTLY for the same UTILITY that the 4Runner offers. Bottom line is that the 4Runner offers more VALUE for that UTILITY.

Thanks charlier180...

Forgot one other thing. Toyota needs to stuff the 4.6 V8 into the 4Runner. That would make the 5th gen 4Runner great, just like the 4th gen was. Awesome torque and a great tow rig in an easy to manage package.

Toyota over saturating their SUV line up (I think stems from) it's too easily to just borrow a platform and build another SUV. I'm sure if the economy and gas prices were low, there may even be another Toyota SUV or two. My guess would be they probably would've added another SUV smaller than the RAV4 based on the Corolla/Matrix platform to fill the void left by the 3rd gen RAV4 since it grew so much.

 

[qs933]

I think Toyota will continue to product the current gen FJ for as long as it can sell it profitably, but won't invest in a second gen.

The Highlander won't be going away anytime soon for multiple reasons. 1) They moved production to the U.S. 2) The incremental cost to develop future generations is likely relatively low given how much it shares with other Camry-based vehicles including the Camry itself. 3) Car-based, 3-row cross-overs are all the rage with no signs of fading anytime soon. Toyota is not going to give that up or replace its spot in the lineup with a truck-based model like the 4Runner.

I think there's still hope for a 6th-gen 4Runner in 7 years. Maybe it'll even be produced in the U.S.

Nissan plans on introducing a new Pathfinder in 2012 based on their Patrol platform. The expectation is that the Armada's last year is 2010, so the Pathfinder will grow to fill the hole in the lineup.

 

[jlmilligan]

If Ford completely changes the Explorer, that is a good thing for the 4runner. It can be looked at from 2 views.
1 -Everyone is doing it, we should too. = Bad, there goes the 4Runner.
2 - Everyone is doing it, our market share just got bigger. = Good, less competition.

My vote would be this
Rav4 - small crossover market
4Runner - Want a truck, need to tow, want to offroad, need the suv market
Landcruiser - lower the price, its a toyota staple, and bring back the lockers.
FJ Cruiser - This is a niche vehicle. if you have one and love it, you will probably never buy anything other than a toyota again. similar to a wrangler, that will never be dropped. they can just lower production numbers and drive the market up. look at the resale on them.

 

[Joaco10SR5]

With all this talk we forget that Toyota utilizes the 4runner frame on other platforms outside of the US like the Land Cruiser Prado/Lexus GX and the Fourtuner, so don't think they will kill the 4runner since the Prado sell well in the Middle East/ Europe and the Fortuner in Central/South America. Also I'm sure there will be a 10 Hilux Surf since the 10 4Runner is made in Japan, they might do the release at a later time, at least we hope.
If I remmember correctly the Sequoia was created for those who wanted a Toyota full size SUV and couldn't afford the Land Cruiser, since the Sequoia is made in the US they can offer a full size SUV at a an afordable price. I also think that Toyota should eliminate the Squoia from the line-up.
If Toyota decides to cancell the T4R they need to made the Prado available in the US. I drive one here in Kuwait with the 4.0 V6 and has nothing but good things to say about this vehicle, nice power, good offroad capabilies (at least in the sand) 3rd row seats, etc. well this is my .02.

 

[adoihcj]

With all this talk we forget that Toyota utilizes the 4runner frame on other platforms outside of the US like the Land Cruiser Prado/Lexus GX and the Fourtuner, so don't think they will kill the 4runner since the Prado sell well in the Middle East/ Europe and the Fortuner in Central/South America.

This is probably the best comment on this thread. I think you have a very good point here!

 

[SciRunner]

I thought the Prado chassis is different than the Fortuner. The Fortuner/Hilux/Innova is based on the International IMV platform. The Prado chassis and related components maybe too expensive to build outside of Japan. The Fortuner is also sold in South East Asia, India, and South Africa.

TOYOTA: IMV Project


What V8 owners want is the Fortuner w/3.0L D4D Turbo Diesel. A nice review here: YouTube - Toyota Fortuner impressions.